New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

St. Lo - Hell in the Hedgerows - Saturday 20th June 2009
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Lardassmonkey
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Re: New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

Postby Lardassmonkey » Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:01 pm

Though the BAR did have the advantage of being able to be used as a rifle and support weapon, to a level. Remember they are being used by Webby and Pete, and will be used under the direction of the Squad commnders so there will be no blatting out ammo on the run or such. Plus there are loads of you.


It can be used as both but then even the MG42 can be fired from the hip, its just not advisable in normal circumstances. I do trust in Webby and Pete to play the role properly and I fully support the introduction of new rules for MGs or light support weapons to simulate the real squad setup. I was just thinking it should be done in a way that doesn't give one side more of an advantage than the other.

But I do remember Webby saying to me that it was a right bugger to use non-prone anyway.


I expect it is but it does give the gunner the advantage of immediately being able to return fire rather than having to deploy first if ambushed or fire from high obstructive foliage without the need of a support which could make all the difference.

As for helmet thing-thats fine by me.
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Re: New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

Postby webby » Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:03 pm

I'm alright for keeping my lid on at all times, another thing which is cool too, most of the time the yank helmet shoots off your head and rolls away when you fall to the ground :)
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Re: New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

Postby Wladek » Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:04 pm

That's why you get to do the holding rifle with one hand and helmet with another - like in the filums. :D
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Re: New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

Postby dieselmonkey » Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:04 pm

Lardassmonkey wrote:
Though the BAR did have the advantage of being able to be used as a rifle and support weapon, to a level. Remember they are being used by Webby and Pete, and will be used under the direction of the Squad commnders so there will be no blatting out ammo on the run or such. Plus there are loads of you.


It can be used as both but then even the MG42 can be fired from the hip, its just not advisable in normal circumstances. I do trust in Webby and Pete to play the role properly and I fully support the introduction of new rules for MGs or light support weapons to simulate the real squad setup. I was just thinking it should be done in a way that doesn't give one side more of an advantage than the other.

But I do remember Webby saying to me that it was a right bugger to use non-prone anyway.


I expect it is but it does give the gunner the advantage of immediately being able to return fire rather than having to deploy first if ambushed or fire from high obstructive foliage without the need of a support which could make all the difference.

As for helmet thing-thats fine by me.


With the BAR rules, we are going to be using them as a test period, and see how it goes, but I think the point is, the BAR was able to immediately return fire to a certain degree, just not in prolonged bursts, which hopefully the new rules do cover accurately.
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Re: New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

Postby webby » Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:09 pm

But I do remember Webby saying to me that it was a right bugger to use non-prone anyway.


It is incredibly heavy to hold at the firing position for prolonged periods of time, and by that I mean I'm not that strong and my arms ache after about 20 seconds lol
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Re: New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

Postby Peppered » Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:14 pm

Hi, what support guns have us Gerries got?
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Re: New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

Postby Lardassmonkey » Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:15 pm

With the BAR rules, we are going to be using them as a test period, and see how it goes, but I think the point is, the BAR was able to immediately return fire to a certain degree, just not in prolonged bursts, which hopefully the new rules do cover accurately.


Ok, fine by me. My thoughts were just that if the BAR gets the advantage over other support weapons (ie fired un-deployed) it just needs a disadvatage to offset it (ie less ammo) so it reflects the real situation as best as possible. Long term I would personally like to try allowing all (non heavy) MGs to be fire undeployed but in short bursts only like you suggest for the BARs.

Hi, what support guns have us Gerries got?


Well I think the FJ will have 2 MG42s. As for you SS I don't know.
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Re: New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

Postby Yith » Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:17 pm

I'm not sure it should apply to MMGs... Just LMGs... i.e. Bren and BAR. The MG42 is too heavy isn't it, more like the .30 cal?
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Re: New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

Postby webby » Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:18 pm

I dont think the BAR classed as an LMG, it was an automatic rifle
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Re: New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

Postby Lardassmonkey » Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:26 pm

The MG42 is too heavy isn't it, more like the .30 cal?


The Mg 34& 42 GPMGs so can forfill either role. It is possible to use them from the shoulder or hip, I've seen it done but as I said before not normally recommended, especially the 42 with its ROF. Although the 34 can be fired reasonably accurately due to having the option of semi-auto. The weight would put you off doing it unless absolutely necessary however.
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Re: New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

Postby Yith » Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:30 pm

So a 34 could arguably have the rule, but maybe not the 42.
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Re: New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

Postby Boshman » Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:37 pm

I believe 2 MG42's :twisted:

I also think it is only fair and authentic if we are allowed to use the MG's in Sturmfeuer mode firing from the hip, again providing it is only short bursts. The same weight issues Webby descibed with firing the BAR from the hip also apply to the 42's and then some. Never the less it can and was done, thats what the 50rd assault drums were for!
“I wanted to come to the Volga at a specific location at a specific city. By chance it carries the name of Stalin himself. So don’t think I marched there for this reason – it could carry another name – but because there is a very important goal... this goal I wanted to take – and you know – we are very modest, we have it already."
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"Comrades, Red Army men, commanders and political workers, men and women guerrillas! It is on your perseverance, staunchness, fighting skill and readiness to discharge your duty to the country that the defeat of the German-fascist army and the liberation of the Soviet land from the Hitlerite invaders depend! We can and must clear the Soviet land of Hitlerite vermin."
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Re: New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

Postby Steiner » Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:38 pm

Excuse me for sticking my oar in here - how about for the BAR: full auto when deployed, semi auto when not deployed ?
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Re: New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

Postby Yith » Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:39 pm

I didn't think it had a switch... hence why the short bursts.
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Re: New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

Postby Boshman » Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:41 pm

There was official wermarcht doctrine for firing the 34/42 from the hip. demonstrated here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp0FbdrsIGM

Oh and the mg34 weighed slightly more that the mg42!
“I wanted to come to the Volga at a specific location at a specific city. By chance it carries the name of Stalin himself. So don’t think I marched there for this reason – it could carry another name – but because there is a very important goal... this goal I wanted to take – and you know – we are very modest, we have it already."
Adolf Hitler, November 1942

"Comrades, Red Army men, commanders and political workers, men and women guerrillas! It is on your perseverance, staunchness, fighting skill and readiness to discharge your duty to the country that the defeat of the German-fascist army and the liberation of the Soviet land from the Hitlerite invaders depend! We can and must clear the Soviet land of Hitlerite vermin."
Joseph Stalin, November 1942

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