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Re: New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:45 pm
by scaleyback
this may confuse the issue further, but i believe the BAR is online with the MP44, i.e. its an assualt rifle, completely diffent to a support weapon/crew served weapon.

Re: New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:13 pm
by Peppered
Hi,

Looks like this debate will run.... I think the "firing from the hip" is a bit of a red herring as I remember picture in Flying Guts Picture Library of some Scottish Commando firing two brens.....


Back to reality, firing prone is a massive disadvantage, but I think it is acceptable if there is plenty of ammo to compensate. So how about the MG that is firing on the move has much less ammo (50 real * 3 for airsoft gets 150, close to the 190 suggested but BAR were 20 so that is only 60 airsoft and Trommels were 75? *3 for airsoft is 225 - let MG42 carry 3 times the BAR amount whatever is decided?) until the ammo mules catch up and replen?

Re: New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:22 pm
by BedsnHerts
I think that what constitutes a "short burst" will be more of an issue, depending on which end of the gun you are.

Re: New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:23 pm
by Yith
hmmm we could knock it down to 190 in the gun, 190 on the gunner, 190 on the assistant... what do you reckon?

Re: New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:28 pm
by Wladek
I do think that if the BAR is to be able to be used from the hip or as an assault rifle, then it should have an ammo disadvantage to the belt feeding MGs etc. though what those numbers should be :? ?

Re: New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:31 pm
by scaleyback
well we can try it in the first part of a game, if it works fine, if not revert back to old spec. but i dont think any support weapons should be fired from the hip/shoulder. deploying them works and isnt controversial in any way. we really dont want the mg 42 to become the ww2 " mini" do we ?

Re: New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:34 pm
by Sgt.Heide
MG34 AND MG42 were fired from the hip in "assualt mode", at the point of being that close to the enemy that the massive recoil didn't matter. Ideal for sweeping a bunker or trench.

Re: New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:34 pm
by Yith
That's it though... the BAR isn't a support weapon hence why we needed to look at it differently.

It's a gun created for an outmoded miltary doctrine. Not ideal at what it should do, but still used.

I'm happy to reduce the ammo limit down as suggested, but do think it should be able to break the no prone rule. It always was intended to be used on the hoof, as far as I can see.

Re: New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:36 pm
by Wladek
Nige has a point. I suppose it is also about portraying the 'filmic' approach to the battles. We all like the deployed MG feel, but It would be nice to see how you can create the difference between the German squad, which revolved around the Mg, and the US one, which had much more distributed fire-power. as yith said, it is not really a support weapon.

I suppose one problem is, I don't know how good this BAR is? :?

Re: New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:39 pm
by Yith
I know webby's keeps breaking...

Re: New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:41 pm
by Wladek
keeps breaking Nige at least :whistle:

I mean what are the relative rates of fire? How much Ammo does an MG42 hold?

Re: New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:46 pm
by Yith
BAR:
Data for M1918A2
Caliber: 7.62x63mm (.30-06 M2)
Weight: 8.8 kg empty
Length: 1214 mm
Length of barrel: 610 mm
Feeding: detachable box magazine, 20 rounds
Rate of fire: 450 or 650 rounds/min, selectable


MG34:
Caliber: 7.92x57mm Mauser (also known as 7.9mm Mauser or 8mm Mauser)
Weigth: 10.5 kg on bipod, empty
Length: 1219 mm
Length of barrel: 627 mm
Feeding: belt, 50 or 250 rounds; double drum magazines, 75 rounds.
Rate of fire: 900 rounds/min
Muzzle velocity: 755 m/s (may vary depending on type of ammunition used)

MG42:
Caliber 7,92x57
Weigth 11,6 kg (gun) + 20,5 kg (Lafette 42 trpod)
Length 1219 mm
Length of barrel 533 mm
Feed belt
Rate of fire 1200 - 1500 rounds per minute

BREN:
Caliber: .303
Weigth: 10 kg
Length: 1156 mm
Length of barrel: 635 mm
Feeding: Magazines, box 30 rounds or pan 100 rounds
Rate of fire: 500 rounds/min

Re: New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:47 pm
by Yith
It says there that the BAR is select fire... is that true on the airsoft version? If so, we can switch it to semi auto only when on the hoof.

Re: New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:57 pm
by Gadge
500 for the bar

its a total half way house then

twice as much *nearly* as the rifle or smg in ammo but half that of the LMG?

Re: New Rules for St Lo. BAR and Headgear

Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:58 pm
by Sgt.Heide
Sounds like a good compromise to me Gadge. :good: