Side feed hop unit

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Lord Elpus
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Side feed hop unit

Postby Lord Elpus » Sun May 26, 2019 7:04 pm

On a project, that I’m collecting parts for, I’m going to need a side feeding hop unit, now I could go down the 3D printer road, but those who have wandered down this long journey, know how long it takes, and even then it may not work!
So I thought I’d have a go at making a prototype that works before getting involved with the plastic printer.
Took an AK 47 hop unit cut the feed pipe off with the help of mr dremel and his little circular saw attachment, and moved it round to the side. Not knowing how this was going to turn out, but at least might give me some idea on sizing up. Milled out new inlet hole, wired in position using bolt locking wire ( motorcycle racing days) set about plastic welding it together with a soldering iron and using cable ties as welding rods ( another motorcycle repair trick, used on broken plastic fairings) then used a metal bond epoxy to cover and strengthen it up.
It’s come out quite good, forgot to take pics of stages in the process, but will be doing another if this one works on trials.
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dadio
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Re: Side feed hop unit

Postby dadio » Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:40 pm

For the pre viva and agm sten's I made I did the reverse , I cut the adjuster off and stuck it back on at 90° then milled new flats on the side of the barrel so it was rotated 90° as well ,my thought was that the adjuster was under less stress than the feed tube and it meant I didn't need as much precision but I was and still am using it not just getting the right measurements . I did try to turn and mill out hop units but never got it right , not enough precision on my part ,3d printing is the way forward for sure with this stuff , the mp40 ones I've made I print at 45° to the bed so no internal support is needed , I added a couple of easy cut of parts to hold it to the bed at the right angle .
armoury
m1a1 Thompson,sten mk2,mp40,stg44,sterling,mk2 bren gun,lee Enfield no4 mk1,Mauser Kar98, Walther ppk,smith and Weston m10 and Mauser m712
Give me a big enough hammer and a place to stand and I could fix the world.
i'll kill a man in a fair fight or if i think he's going to start a fair fight or over a woman or.......
a problem shared is a problem halved ,but an advantage shared is no advantage at all
if a job's not worth doing then its certainly not worth doing well

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Lord Elpus
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Re: Side feed hop unit

Postby Lord Elpus » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:26 pm

I did think about just turning it on it’s side and do a “ tdc “ type of hop adjustment, and for the barrel placement, to sleeve over the hop on the clip part drill and tap the sleeve to clamp the barrel, much the same as airsoft pro do some of their replacement hops.
I just wanted to see how it would work out this way, and have something to give to my printer man, but this works! I’m in the process of ripping out the side of an AK 47 frame to accommodate this as I’ll be using AK mags on the project. Of course the amended feed tube will have to be supported much as they are anyway in the AK.
I may yet have to have a longer feed tube to do the job on the project, I want to get this to work first before building it all then finding out I can’t make it work properly,......plus I might have the only side mounted mag AK 47!
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dadio
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Re: Side feed hop unit

Postby dadio » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:58 pm

Don't tell the Russians ! Its not an FG42 being planned by any chance ?
armoury
m1a1 Thompson,sten mk2,mp40,stg44,sterling,mk2 bren gun,lee Enfield no4 mk1,Mauser Kar98, Walther ppk,smith and Weston m10 and Mauser m712
Give me a big enough hammer and a place to stand and I could fix the world.
i'll kill a man in a fair fight or if i think he's going to start a fair fight or over a woman or.......
a problem shared is a problem halved ,but an advantage shared is no advantage at all
if a job's not worth doing then its certainly not worth doing well

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Lord Elpus
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Re: Side feed hop unit

Postby Lord Elpus » Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:05 pm

Not an FG 42, a Johnson 1941 LMG, going to attempt two at once, hence the reason for side feed hop unit. Nearly done on conversion to the test bed AK, so until I get a result from making a working prototype, I won’t start the project guns.
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dadio
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Re: Side feed hop unit

Postby dadio » Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:42 pm

That's a new one on me , were they ever used in WW2 ? I like the odd ones , always fancied making a Leningrad Gun myself. Looks like a fun project , the mag looks to go in horizontal but below the barrel level, an interesting challenge , I'm sure your testing will work out well :good:
armoury
m1a1 Thompson,sten mk2,mp40,stg44,sterling,mk2 bren gun,lee Enfield no4 mk1,Mauser Kar98, Walther ppk,smith and Weston m10 and Mauser m712
Give me a big enough hammer and a place to stand and I could fix the world.
i'll kill a man in a fair fight or if i think he's going to start a fair fight or over a woman or.......
a problem shared is a problem halved ,but an advantage shared is no advantage at all
if a job's not worth doing then its certainly not worth doing well

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Lord Elpus
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Re: Side feed hop unit

Postby Lord Elpus » Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:17 am

Yes, the mag being lower, is one of the reasons to make a working prototype, if I can make a straight line one, I can make one slightly longer with maybe a 30 degree angle to it. I was thinking of using mini gun para 249 hop unit to start with and adding a tube, I have two of these, but I have more old AK47 ones to experiment on!
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Lord Elpus
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Re: Side feed hop unit

Postby Lord Elpus » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:36 pm

Spent a bit of time on this today, got it firing after a little trim off of the nozzle, now I didn’t expect too much from this, which is just as well, but it does fire, getting a few misfires and a few double shots which could be the mag, seeing as it’s a hi-cap working side on, but then the hop itself was far from being new. Along with rest of it.
Sliding the hop on and off does have an effect, but not stable, just when you think that’s about right, .....it’s not! I reckon I’m on the right track. I shall do another but first check that everything is working together before I commence the modification, some where I’ve got a new plastic hop which I will use with new nozzle and mid cap mag.
Eventually might have to do this to some M4 type hop units as I will be using v2 gearboxes in the build, but for now the old AK 47 gets the honour of being the guinea pig.
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Lord Elpus
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Re: Side feed hop unit

Postby Lord Elpus » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:38 pm

Here’s a few more pic’s
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Lord Elpus
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Re: Side feed hop unit

Postby Lord Elpus » Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:24 pm

Well, after another go, it seemed to be the mag, firing the gun on its side, mag proper way up one double shot in about forty, and obviously when spring relaxes, no fire, on its side pellets not under pressure/tension some misfires occurred, found mid cap mag, works much better, doesn’t fit very well have to hold on position but hardly any double firing.
Still isn’t quite right, bit more fettling yet, onwards and upwards!
Andy
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Re: Side feed hop unit

Postby kingmaker » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:14 am

Hi Andy i think several people have tied a side fed hi-cap mag set up ,my self included,and found it won't fill the carousel wheel up fully all the time unless it has ammo dropping on to it with gravity.
Maybe with your usual genius you may prove me wrong but i think you will end up with mid caps in the end on this.Good luck with your experiments.
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Lord Elpus
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Re: Side feed hop unit

Postby Lord Elpus » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:27 am

On the project gun, it will be running AK mid caps anyway, the hi cap just happened to be with gun at the time of conversion, I thought it might struggle anyway when it gets low, causing misfires, but it misfires and double feeds from about five to ten pellets from the start, strangely enough, it fires better when shooting downward, must be getting a constant feed of pellets I suppose.
Because nothing was new, or had even been in the same gun together, I didn’t expect too much from this first go, but the hop unit has held together for around twelve hundred pellets so far, so I think I’ve got that bit sorted, will now build anther taking a bit more care and consideration, using new parts, instead of “chum bucket” parts even the hop rubber had been kicking around at the bottom of the bucket for about a year!
These are the mid caps I’ll be using.
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dadio
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Re: Side feed hop unit

Postby dadio » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:28 pm

All sounds promising , keep going on the side feed AK it looks unique ! :good: , what you were saying about trying the hop feed on an angle to the mag has some legs on it ,BB's will feed on slight angles not just smooth curves so if you cut the feed tube to fit into a mag on a 10 or 15° angle it may be enough , it might get sketchy over 20° though .
armoury
m1a1 Thompson,sten mk2,mp40,stg44,sterling,mk2 bren gun,lee Enfield no4 mk1,Mauser Kar98, Walther ppk,smith and Weston m10 and Mauser m712
Give me a big enough hammer and a place to stand and I could fix the world.
i'll kill a man in a fair fight or if i think he's going to start a fair fight or over a woman or.......
a problem shared is a problem halved ,but an advantage shared is no advantage at all
if a job's not worth doing then its certainly not worth doing well

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kingmaker
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Re: Side feed hop unit

Postby kingmaker » Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:28 am

If you don't mind me asking is that jb weld glue you used to convert the hop unit?
I know of a Guy in the states who would cut his arm off for a Johnson LMG,no doubt you are building this for him i would assume.
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Lord Elpus
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Re: Side feed hop unit

Postby Lord Elpus » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:19 pm

The epoxy I’m using is called K2 metal bond, found it on EBay, now I know you’re not an advocate of EBay but it does turn up with the goods sometimes, in my opinion this stuff is far superior to jbweld, sets quicker, and cuts, drills files and shapes up a lot better. I did reinforce the hop with binding wire before the epoxy was applied. Mixed a pea sized amount of both parts, sets in five minutes, solid to work on in fifteen, unlike jbweld where you can grow a beard before it sets.
Originally I was going to make myself a generic non descriptive support weapon from a short G3 -T3 quite like the gun, but the magazine setup was crap, so I was going to lengthen the barrel, small box mag on the side with tube perforated hand guard, wood stock. When asked if I would make a Johnson 1941 LMG, wasn’t that far away from what I’d already planned, so I’m going to attempt two. Just got to get this side feeding hop thing working, got quite few different units kicking around to try yet. Next one I attempt I will document it.
It could well be the same guy that wants the build, I’ve not asked where he’s from, not asked for any payment either, sort all that out if it gets built.......not a quick job, this project. Still collecting parts at this time, as well as sorting the side feed.
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