Poles vs Blanco. FIIIIIIGHT

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Poacher
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Re: The Kit Pic Thread

Postby Poacher » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:36 pm

Chomley-Warner wrote:
Poacher wrote: didnt have Blanco as a compulsory part of their regime.
did not the Canadians have a fine tradition of British Army uniforms and accoutrements

I think my post still stands, the qualifier 'compulsory' sees to that?
Yes Canada did have web cleaning products, you know I own some, my blanco is all over your web site, still the application of blanco to webbing was not always practiced by the largely volunteer Canadian troops. When they shipped over some did, some didn't. By wars end whilst I can't give you figures almost all did.
Just because they adopted some of the styling of British uniforms and equipment doesn't infer that they took all of them. The Canadian basic pouch kept the ballistite loops, their BD never had an economy model, their boots were different, they wore their jump wings in a different location and their anklets deeper/taller. A short list of many differences. You can safely add 'didn't always use blanco' to it.
Chomley-Warner wrote:To counter the 'no one else did it' argument;
Why? No-one is making it, some did, some didn't. Why joust at strawmen?
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Re: The Kit Pic Thread

Postby Colosseum » Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:01 am

I personally have always been afraid of blanco... my P37 set is basically unissued and I really like the beautiful golden khaki color. :P
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Re: The Kit Pic Thread

Postby Wladek » Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:12 am

there is no definitive evidence, otherwise I would be using less circumspect words like 'suggests' and 'the evidence' and more direct words such as 'they did'.

Here's some from NWE between 1944 and 1945. Trying to find pictures that are in the field, of Polish infantry, and clearly show webbing is very hard. There are some in books that are not on the internet.

A pic in parade-y smartness. Webbing shades looks to vary amongst the small group, of course this could be some trick of the light, or else different levels of worn-out blanco.
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DSCF0841.jpg (49.81 KiB) Viewed 1535 times


A selection of belts worn for a visiting Monty, either 43 or 44. A variable colour of belts can be seen, again, it could be a lighting issue.
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Occupation forces in Germany, once more a variant of shades in a variant of sunlight.
Bor Komorowski Polish home army commander visits first polish armoured division 1945_2.jpg
Bor Komorowski Polish home army commander visits first polish armoured division 1945_2.jpg (66.34 KiB) Viewed 1535 times


Polish Infantry, near Chambois, France, 1944. A picture that is not very clear but the third man back has webbing which stands out looking to be unblancoed.
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10th Dragoons (infantry) on parade, 1943. I am normally more distrustful of coloured photographs, as some can be 'coloured in afterwards'
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A selection of pics of Jan Pirog from the war. He is a tanker, so not directly applicable evidence for infantry, but there is, again, a lot of different shaded belts that can be seen, which is suggestive of the manner in which Polish units approached the use of blanco.
http://www.janpirog.com/war_pics.php

I will try and see about scanning some pics from books in too.
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Re: The Kit Pic Thread

Postby Gadge » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:28 pm

I think the issue is compounded by the fact that unblancoed webbing comes in various shades depending on country of manufacture and factory. Not massively so but i've got unissued and 'raw' pieces that are of different shades, notably so.

You might see this in 'unblancoed' photos. i've got an oft trotted out pic of 1RTRs officers in germany on a parade period annotated as 'look no blanco' and the belts are different shades on some guys but this might be a case of different degrees of success in washing them clean from previous applications.

I've also got pics of groups of british staff officers from various formations at a conference and belts are notably different colours. I think once you start looking at officers in pics you further open up the variety as nobody is going to tell the brigadier his belt needs redoing at his own o group :)

And i'd agree with museums being a poor substitute for books. Especially the larger ones as quite often you've got 'multi period' and the curator may not care so much about certain eras. Nottingham castle museum has some shockingly wrong stuff in it from WWII onwards (i seem to recall their 'wwii' tommy has one popper closure pouch and one QRF tabbed one among other minor quibbles.) Equally when PBI went to the Staffordshire regiments museum they have manequins done up in mismatched and post war webbing.

regardless of whether its appropriate to the unit or not...mismatched webbing looks rubbish :)

But like 'cap GS' sometimes looking rubbish is all part of looking 'accurate' i guess.
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Re: The Kit Pic Thread

Postby Nurglitch » Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:13 pm

A Canadian sniper. Note the webbing colour:

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Re: The Kit Pic Thread

Postby Nurglitch » Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:17 pm

Wladek wrote:A pic in parade-y smartness. Webbing shades looks to vary amongst the small group, of course this could be some trick of the light, or else different levels of worn-out blanco.


These are 1st Armoured soldiers, yet they seem to have para helmets? ...
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Re: The Kit Pic Thread

Postby Ramsay00105 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:22 pm

No they have AFV helmets. Same shell shape as para helmet. Different fixings, chin strap and liner
15 Plt. C Coy 2 Batt. S STAFFORDS 1st Airlanding Brigade 1st Airborne Division
The Hallamshire Battalion Y&L Regiment 146 Infantry Brigade 49 Inf Division


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Re: The Kit Pic Thread

Postby Wladek » Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:23 pm

Nurglitch wrote:
Wladek wrote:A pic in parade-y smartness. Webbing shades looks to vary amongst the small group, of course this could be some trick of the light, or else different levels of worn-out blanco.


These are 1st Armoured soldiers, yet they seem to have para helmets? ...


They are Armoured helmets, or at least I assume so.

Edit: As Ramsey says
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Re: The Kit Pic Thread

Postby Nurglitch » Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:51 pm

But they seem to be 10th Dragoons. Mech infantry, not tankers... Did mech infantry wear AFV helmets?

[edit]
All right, I've talked to my friends who are more into the 1st Armoured. Apparently the entire division switched to AFV helmets after the war (they were mixed towards the end of the war). This may very well be a post-war pic.
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Re: The Kit Pic Thread

Postby Wladek » Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:20 pm

Judging by the regimental badge on the pocket they are a different regiment
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Re: The Kit Pic Thread

Postby Nurglitch » Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:37 pm

1st Armoured "wiewiór", black shoulder epaulette, braided cord under the left epaulette - all that would make them 10th Dragoons, part of the 1st Armoured.
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Re: The Kit Pic Thread

Postby Wladek » Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:53 pm

The black epaulette was common to the whole division I think, and at least a few different regiments had a 'braided Lanyard' - can't remember what they are called officially.
Here's 1st armoured Regiment BD.
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30095291
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Re: The Kit Pic Thread

Postby Nurglitch » Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:22 pm

Wladek wrote:The black epaulette was common to the whole division I think,


Yes, but only since 15th Feb 1945.

Wladek wrote:and at least a few different regiments had a 'braided Lanyard' - can't remember what they are called officially.


Yep, but this one does look a lot like the fairly simple black braid of the 10th Dragoons.

Anyway, I know about those helmets now. Thanks :)
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Re: The Kit Pic Thread

Postby Poacher » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:14 pm

A nice mix of chin straps can be seen on the AFV helmets.
Early sprung type and the later elasticated version.
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Re: The Kit Pic Thread

Postby Bazooka Joe » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:25 pm

Nurglitch wrote:A Canadian sniper. Note the webbing colour:

[/img]


Yes, but....

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His Majesty King George VI inspecting the 2nd Medium Regiment, Royal Canadian Artillary (R.C.A.).

Credit: Alexander M. Stirton / Canada. Dept. of National Defence / Library and Archives Canada / PA-128090.

Or this one. Not too clear, but their webbing looks a lot darker than their KDs.

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Personnel of the Edmonton Regiment entering Modica, Italy, 13 July 1943.

Credit: National Archives of Canada/PA-116848

Both photos from the same site: http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/feature/i ... allery#a08

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