SS Camo Tunic question

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rifleman6925
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SS Camo Tunic question

Postby rifleman6925 » Sun May 31, 2015 12:08 pm

This topic may have been covered previously, however, if not my question is this. There seems to be a plethora of different types of SS camo tunics out there. I know the 'pea dot' tunic was produced later in the war and many types of camo smock. Were tunics made from other SS camo, for example 'oak leaf' or were these privately tailored by the troops themselves or just modern day fantasies by sellers to try and part us with our hard earned cash?
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Re: SS Camo Tunic question

Postby Steiner » Sun May 31, 2015 5:03 pm

The only issued tunic was the pea dot, which was actually worn over Feldgrau wools. Whilst you might find the odd photo of other camo tunics, they were privately-made and rare - and as you rightly summise, are a good opportunity for modern sellers to sell to the gullible!
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Re: SS Camo Tunic question

Postby rifleman6925 » Sun May 31, 2015 5:24 pm

I thought as much Andy, cheers for the confirmation. What camo trousers are a good mix to use with a HBT Fieldgrau Tunic. I know 'pea dot' were used but what other camo was available and used? Was 'Italian' camo trousers used by the SS and any other types?

The reason I am asking is that I cannot wear wool, cheers :good:
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Re: SS Camo Tunic question

Postby Steiner » Sun May 31, 2015 7:14 pm

Hey Anthony, if you wanted to wear camo ones, I would definitely go for pea dot. Italian was worn a bit, but is really overdone in the re-enactment world, by people trying to be different. :ghey: Or, you could simply wear the green HBT trousers. :good:
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Re: SS Camo Tunic question

Postby rifleman6925 » Sun May 31, 2015 7:39 pm

Steiner wrote:Hey Anthony, if you wanted to wear camo ones, I would definitely go for pea dot. Italian was worn a bit, but is really overdone in the re-enactment world, by people trying to be different. :ghey: Or, you could simply wear the green HBT trousers. :good:

Yeah mate, I get your point and the 'pea dot' mix does look the part. I only ask as Ian is selling 'Italian camo' trousers rather cheaply :whistle:
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Re: SS Camo Tunic question

Postby Coatimundi » Sun May 31, 2015 10:28 pm

Actually, old stocks of oak leaf were put to use making tunics and trousers after the production of smocks ceased;

"When the camouflage drill uniform was introduced, the manufacture of pullover type smocks was discontinued. Consequently, stockpiles of preprinted HBT camouflage material intended for smocks was rendered available. Though the material was the same, the printed patterns reflected the earlier styles in use such as Oak Leaf and Blurred Edge. Because smocks were reversible, the fabric was double printed. Drill uniforms manufactured from this cloth were assembled to present the brown autumn colors on the exterior. However, a few isolated incidents exist of the summer green side being the exterior print. The initial deliveries of the drill uniform in the spring of 1944 showed slight differences from those received later...these jackets were initially supplied with loops for shoulder straps and attached sleeve eagle. The loops are an interesting feauture considering that the use of shoulder straps was forbidden. In order to standarize the uniform, this derictive was again repeated in July 1944. The order expressly forbade the wearing of shoulder straps on uniforms made from camouflage drill material. It is likely that original production order instructed manufacturers to produce the drill uniform in identical fashion with the wool M-43 field-gray counterpart. This accounts not only for loops, but also the attached neck buttons for collar liners. Both feautures were eliminated on later models. By mid-1944 the practice of the factory applied sleeve eagles was discontinued. " - Michael Beaver; Camouflage uniforms of the Waffen SS

I've heard of these uniforms being made in M44 (as in the same cut as the pea dot tunics), M43 wool, M43 hbt cut, and the trousers in M37 and M42 Kielhosen cut, as well as in the same cut as the pea dot trousers. It gets a bit confusing. Almost all of them were made with the brown autumn side out, a few were done with blurred edge fabric. All of these oak leaf uniforms were pretty rare and iirc only started being issued around mid 1944.
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Re: SS Camo Tunic question

Postby Steiner » Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:34 am

Interesting, and a good find. :good: Actually, I have that book somewhere - I'd better read it! :roll:

But as you say (lack of) photographic evidence confirms their rarity.
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Re: SS Camo Tunic question

Postby rifleman6925 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 11:35 am

So in effect it would be ok to wear an Oakleaf Autumn tunic and trousers for later themed games and any that are not that specific given that the Pea Dot was again a later issued item also. As stated even though rare they seem to have existed. I do like the Pea Dot but also the Autumn Oakleaf looks good too, given that you can get a new set for £65 is very tempting. Obviously I would prefer to be correct in my assumptions prior to spending my dosh :D

Any further info will be very much appreciated :good:
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Re: SS Camo Tunic question

Postby MartinR » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:02 pm

wrt the Italian camo, iirc the main users were 12th SS HJ, and even then they had an awful lot of peadot too.

As Andy said, if you just want a pair of plain non-wool trousers, then HBTs would work fine, but for camo outfits there are range of options.

You doing SS as well as Heer then Tony? I've stil got your old smock, zelt and helmet cover!

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Re: SS Camo Tunic question

Postby rifleman6925 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:18 pm

MartinR wrote:wrt the Italian camo, iirc the main users were 12th SS HJ, and even then they had an awful lot of peadot too.

As Andy said, if you just want a pair of plain non-wool trousers, then HBTs would work fine, but for camo outfits there are range of options.

You doing SS as well as Heer then Tony? I've stil got your old smock, zelt and helmet cover!

Cheers
Martin

Yes mate, I am thinking about having a couple of impressions I can use. The missus may have a go :slap: and I may employ her as a medic :giggle: so the extra uniform would come in handy. Just figured a camo outfit would be the cheaper option as no need to badge it up etc
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Re: SS Camo Tunic question

Postby Steiner » Mon Jun 01, 2015 6:23 pm

rifleman6925 wrote:So in effect it would be ok to wear an Oakleaf Autumn tunic and trousers for later themed games and any that are not that specific given that the Pea Dot was again a later issued item also. As stated even though rare they seem to have existed. I do like the Pea Dot but also the Autumn Oakleaf looks good too, given that you can get a new set for £65 is very tempting. Obviously I would prefer to be correct in my assumptions prior to spending my dosh :D

Any further info will be very much appreciated :good:


Yes, given the info provided by Coatimundi, then they obviously existed. Oakleaf is an awesome camo, too. :)
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Re: SS Camo Tunic question

Postby rifleman6925 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 6:46 pm

Steiner wrote:
rifleman6925 wrote:So in effect it would be ok to wear an Oakleaf Autumn tunic and trousers for later themed games and any that are not that specific given that the Pea Dot was again a later issued item also. As stated even though rare they seem to have existed. I do like the Pea Dot but also the Autumn Oakleaf looks good too, given that you can get a new set for £65 is very tempting. Obviously I would prefer to be correct in my assumptions prior to spending my dosh :D

Any further info will be very much appreciated :good:


Yes, given the info provided by Coatimundi, then they obviously existed. Oakleaf is an awesome camo, too. :)

I agree Andy it is a fab camo, I have looked around and apart from Spearhead who have a plethora of different camo tunics the other suppliers only seem to do the Oakleaf tunic in Autumn colouration which would kind of confirm what Coatimundi has said. Obviously they also do Pea Dot and Italian camo but only the one type of Oakleaf.

Given the info from Coatimundi the only insignia needed would be camo rank and maybe a sleeve eagle which would cut down on costs.
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Re: SS Camo Tunic question

Postby Steiner » Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:03 pm

I wouldn't bother with the sleeve eagle, myself.
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Re: SS Camo Tunic question

Postby rifleman6925 » Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:31 pm

Steiner wrote:I wouldn't bother with the sleeve eagle, myself.

Ok then, even cheaper :happyclap:
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Re: SS Camo Tunic question

Postby MartinR » Wed Jun 03, 2015 7:45 am

Yes, they weren't supposed to put sleeve eagles on camo smocks & tunics (although some of soldiers did, because it looked cool :) ). Camo rank insignia were even rarer.

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