Operation Autumn Mist - 14th December 2008

Private forum for the use of Hohenstaufen members
User avatar
Sgt.Heide
Fought at the Battle of Hastings
Fought at the Battle of Hastings
Posts: 5875
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:52 pm
Location: Midlands.

Re: Operation Autumn Mist - 14th December 2008

Postby Sgt.Heide » Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:27 pm

Noone got any comments or observations about the game? I'm on nights this week, so I'll save mine for tomorrow when I have more time to post up from our SS perspective.
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!
User avatar
Joseph Porta
Fought at the Battle of Agincourt
Fought at the Battle of Agincourt
Posts: 4100
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:44 pm
Location: Littleborough
Contact:

Re: Operation Autumn Mist - 14th December 2008

Postby Joseph Porta » Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:49 pm

my views from an ss perspective...........

1st assault was textbook, the training really showed, it was great to take part, it was like being back in the army again.
chommers plays it down a bit i think :lol:

the "NEW" 101st airborne guys tried to counterattack early (as guy said, "they must have got bored, its not in the gameplan") and got there arses well kicked and handed back to them

(must remember my roleplay, i didnt medic and just stormed in due to red mist)

the afternoon saw us split up a bit, and as small groups we couldnt take on the whole american or brit teams as ad hoc units.

i feel if we had deployed as 12 men rather than 3, 4 or 5`s we`d have done a lot better

i enjoyed patroling with che and fandanglos, they knew the shit,(and we found 3 petrol ammo dumps) and did well as a covert patrol, but then we got bumped and despite heide bringing up renforcments, ( we were already surrounded and petes team fought their way IN TO an already encircled pocket), you saw me running away to escape as i was down to my last 10 rounds and all my patrol were dead/wounded :whistle:

ill post more later, got to talk to :wife:
"Take that you rotton helping of strawberry flan!"
Joseph Porta to "strawberrys and cream", in the sven hassel book ,ogpu prison
User avatar
Lardassmonkey
Fought at the Battle of Agincourt
Fought at the Battle of Agincourt
Posts: 2680
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:37 pm
Location: Arse end, just outside nowhere.
Contact:

Re: Operation Autumn Mist - 14th December 2008

Postby Lardassmonkey » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:53 pm

I think its safe to say the results were pretty mixed. The early action as porta says was all pretty text book. :good: From there things went down hill a bit. Obviously most of us spent most of the rest of the morning sat on top of the ridge whilst others went on patrol.
Our patrol didn't exactly go to plan but then I don't think we could have made it go much better than it did. There was just too many enemies about and nowhere to run to. I still think moving along the far side of the wall may have been the better option as not only would the wall have covered us but there was also a far amount of foliage there too. At least we would havce lasted a bit longer with some solid cover. :lol:
Following lunch things went to pot a bit, the german force as a whole lost its coherance and us 9th SS were split up. I eventually ended up with Tiny and Pinkpanzer, along with Guy & the Blaggers taking the Meuse bridge after moving up the left flank from the sluce crossing. From then on it was a bit of free for all as we all just fought to hold back the repeated allied assaults on the bridge. The final assault on the bridge we also didn't really try to work as a team or use any kind of greater tactical thinking when perhaps we should have done.

In conclusion;
In attack we worked well together as it is one thing we did practice, however we need try and stick together more so that we can work as a unit and make use of the superior firepower of the MGs.
On patrol- well things seemed to go ok but we didn't really get a chance to really test it.
In defence we were fighting more as individuals than as a team but we were very fragmented and obviously had no time to set up any kind of prepared defence (at the Meuse this is as I can't comment on the mortar defence). I feel we really could have held out indefinately at the bridge if we had the Mgs and a little time to prepare.

Key points;
Sticking together as best we can. Of course we're going to get split up as the game goes on but if at any point there is a lul in the battle then we should use it to re-organise.

As CW said we should have made more use of the MGs. I think it may be something we need to focus on. Maybe we should all train to use them properly so that we can each take a turn at using them and share the burden. It would also mean if the gunner goes down someone else can take over right away and keep up the fire. I also think we do need a dedicated No2 at all times to watch the gunner's back, provide support and take over when necessary.

I also see no reason why we can't carry spare ammo for the MG so that we can use them to their full potential. As riflemen we have a 600 round limit but theres no rule that says we have use it ourselves. When I use my Tanaka I doubt I've ever used over 100 rounds a life so I was thinking why not make the other 500 available for the MG? Semi-auto users can probably also spare 2-300 rounds and auto users perhaps 100, depending upon what gun/mags they use.
Since we would all be using the MGs and we all benefit from their effects it might be a good idea to club together to buy a bulk load of ammo for it- what ever Del & Pete deam most suitable. The ammo can be kept seperately from our own (as we all have are own preferences), stored in an ammo tin at the CP and we restock our MG ammo from it as required.
Given the nature of the forthcoming Op lightning game working as a team around the MGs would be a key feature. Learning to protect them and keep them running at all costs should be the main focus of our training for that game. The lack of AEGs will limit our individual firepower but shouldn't necessarily limit the squad's.

Another point CW brought up was the lack of leadership- Pete you say you don't want to order people about as they've paid to play and may not like it. Obviously I can only speak for my self but I say balls- if I'm sat there like a numpty tell/shout kick me up the arse and get me to do something and I'll do it! :lol: I doubt many of the 9th SS memebers would disagree though.

Right, sorry to go on. I think thats it for now; hopefully I said something useful. :D
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
User avatar
Sgt.Heide
Fought at the Battle of Hastings
Fought at the Battle of Hastings
Posts: 5875
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:52 pm
Location: Midlands.

Re: Operation Autumn Mist - 14th December 2008

Postby Sgt.Heide » Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:38 pm

Thankyou Tony and Rich. It would be nice if a few more added their thoughts. A couple of points from my perspective...

The first attack was great. We drove them out of their positions and cleared out those in depth. It was executed with speed, aggression, firepower, pyro's and teamwork, just like we'd practiced. It brought a smile to my face to see everyone working together and, at this point, I had high hopes for the rest of the day. We also fended off a couple of attempted counter attacks with some good teamwork and, again, a lot of pyro's! No idea why these attacks were made, I think it was to give the allies something to do whilst we were getting ready for the recce's.

This is the point where things went tits up for us. We were broken up into small recce teams, who promptly ran into roving bands of allies and got bogged into firefights, making their objectives extremely difficult to achieve. I insisted on my patrol being a bit bigger and we went out a bit more mob handed than the other patrols. But we ran into what seemed like the entire allied team who were busy chasing Che's patrol as well and we were wiped out. None of the three fuel dumps I spotted had any allies defending them, they all seemed to revert to being airsofters and ran around looking for someone to shoot at.

The attempted crossing of the river fared little better. We had made a sound plan but found it extremely difficult to cross the morass of mud and bog. I was involved in one attempt on the left flank, where we were simply mullered by a bunch of yanks with thompsons that had about a 10 metre range advantage over everything we had. They never seemed to run low on ammo, no matter how many times we regrouped and tried again. Anyone who says that all of those guns are 350fps or less is having a laugh as well. I've read a comment that we had the advantage in previous games with the Tanakas and noone complained about that . This is bollocks. The Tanakas are single shot, low capacity and not that accurate, especially against a moving target (although I seem to remember a lot of crying about them at Husky!). It's a big advantage to be able to hold the trigger in on a hot, hicap equipped aeg from a concealed position and we really struggled to make any headway against this for the rest of the day. Also, at Husky, we were continually told to fall back and not allowed to roam about, attacking at will. Fair play to CiA, they did get a grip of it and moved the allies so we could eventually cross the river.

I'm not going to go into detail about the defence/attack on the main target, it's been covered already and we were so split up by then that it's pointless to do a post mortem of it.

From my point of view, I was really pissed off, very wet and very tired at the end of it all. I'd done my best to carry a very heavy machinegun around all day and all I've seen on the forum so far is criticism for not using it! That hurts. We also seem to have taken flak for lack of leadership. Well, it's hard to lead a team that is split up early on by "command" and you can't find any of them! For the patrol that I led, I was ordered to stick to the left of the wall, so I did, and it was a massacre. If you guys want "leadership", I need carte blanche. If anyone objects to being shouted at or ordered about, I won't do it. Sunday was little better than an open day for me and it's only the people, ie, you guys! That rescued me from just going back to my car at several points.

If this is what we can expect in the future, then, frankly, I don't need the added workload of a) trying to run this group and sub forum virtually on my own, b) trying to organise good value, relevant training days (again, on my own), c) Voicing my opinions alone on the "open" forum d) taking the fall for our "failure" and, on top of it, juggling a home and work life as well. There's quite a while now before the next game and I am so glad of that, because I really need to get my motivation back, I guess you could say I'm having a crisis of confidence at his point! This isn't a dig at any of you guys (who turn up for said training and games!), whom I have utmost respect for and it's a pleasure to serve with you.
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!
User avatar
Chomley-Warner
Site Admin
Posts: 15577
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:20 pm
Location: Derby

Re: Operation Autumn Mist - 14th December 2008

Postby Chomley-Warner » Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:13 pm

OK, I'll stick my oar in!

I'm quite surprised by the tone of Pete's post - at no time have I ever criticised him but since he (and others) listed a shed load of points I answered them, point by point. I haven't ever criticised anyone in particular, just pointed out the weakness of a strategy that was easily achievable. And of course, if ordered are followed then it's clear where the difficulties lay. :wink:
In fact, I endorsed a lot of your points... I doubt anyone bothers to read things properly though, just the last post seems to do and reply to that. Such are forums.

Thing is, if you had eyes on three dumps did you write down the numbers and report back positions? That would be recce done with - no need to get close and have a battle.

As an aside, if you are accusing fellow players of running hot guns and ignoring ammo limits then that's an issue that should be taken up immediately, not bitched about afterwards.

BTW, if it appears that it's just me representing CiA that's because Guy is engaged elsewhere, Stephen is ill and Jay is keeping out of it!

And yes, I know what it's like to put hundreds of hours into a project with little help and no thanks, meh, that's life... it's the same in any voluntary pursuit!
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
User avatar
Sgt.Heide
Fought at the Battle of Hastings
Fought at the Battle of Hastings
Posts: 5875
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:52 pm
Location: Midlands.

Re: Operation Autumn Mist - 14th December 2008

Postby Sgt.Heide » Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:24 pm

Chomley-Warner wrote:OK, I'll stick my oar in!

Thing is, if you had eyes on three dumps did you write down the numbers and report back positions? That would be recce done with - no need to get close and have a battle.

As an aside, if you are accusing fellow players of running hot guns and ignoring ammo limits then that's an issue that should be taken up immediately, not bitched about afterwards.


David, I always make a point of fully reading all posts, how else can anyone make a relevant reply if they don't read what's said? Yes, it's time consuming but worth it to make pertinent comments.

We did indeed write down the numbers of the fuel dumps but we were cut off from returning with the info by people intent on having a blat.

I did mention my opinions on what I considered to be hot guns and "extended" ammo limits (as I have at other games) but my claim was rubbished and I saw little point pursuing my grievance after this. I was not the only one who had this opinion either, it's just that I seem (as ever) the only one who has voiced it and hence come across as the "lone nut" on the subject. I have utmost faith and respect for the CiA crew but I think you're a little too trusting of people to self police sometimes, especially with the recent influx of new players. I don't know why those who voiced the same concerns haven't "cowboyed up" and said something, perhaps they don't want to cause offence or seem ungrateful? It's not my intention to offend or seem ungrateful either, you KNOW I respect you and the other CiA organisers and we all owe you a lot for what you've done BUT I also feel I owe it to you to tell you about some things that aren't right as well, instead of just blowing smoke up your arses.
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!
User avatar
Chomley-Warner
Site Admin
Posts: 15577
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:20 pm
Location: Derby

Re: Operation Autumn Mist - 14th December 2008

Postby Chomley-Warner » Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:14 pm

Bugger, just lost my lengthy reply :evil:

David, I always make a point of fully reading all posts,

Yes, it was a general point. Context and points get lost as a thread expands so well reasoned arguments go to pot. Ah well.

We did indeed write down the numbers of the fuel dumps

Well, that's great, job done then. It matters not it you were attacked afterwards.

lone nut
Oi, you can' claim that title for yourself - shall I make a list? :rofl:

little too trusting of people
Yes, guilty as charged. We have to trust players not to blat in someone's face, overfill mags, or throw tantrums. We do it for fun and it's what distinguishes us from Gunman (say). Number one rule of 'don't be a cock' should be sufficient. That's not to say there aren't cocks about... :roll:

It's not my intention to offend or seem ungrateful either
I'm not the slightest bit offended - all comments welcome and points replied to.

just blowing smoke up your arses
Hmmm, will I like it? New one on me! :rofl:

I have said before that no matter how cohesive Hohenstaufen are they are but part of a larger team. Everyone has to work together else it will just go to shit. Being focussed and on the ball, Hohenstaufen members are ideally placed to take the lead when required. Players don’t mind being told what to do - some are crying out for it. Take the noobs, bimblers and the clueless under your wing!

Having said all that it should be clear that I’m not ‘blaming’ or finger pointing - just that all objectives could have been achieved with a bit of thought and organisation. I have no idea what was going on the German side but something wasn’t right!
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
User avatar
Joseph Porta
Fought at the Battle of Agincourt
Fought at the Battle of Agincourt
Posts: 4100
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:44 pm
Location: Littleborough
Contact:

Re: Operation Autumn Mist - 14th December 2008

Postby Joseph Porta » Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:41 pm

i echo lardasses point, i certanly dont mind being shouted at and ordered around

"get your fuking legs out of my line of fire" rings a bell pete :rofl:

i love the roleplay aspect of this as much or if not more than the actual airsoft.

as far as im concerned, if someone is BRAVE and i mean that word, BRAVE enough to take a command postiotion, then people who dont step up to the plate should be prepared to do as their told.

dont get downhearted pete, it will work itself out, but we need to have a good disscussion on here over the next few weeks, once christmas is out of the way, get down to basics , and get ready for LIGHTNING.

i think that game has REAL potential, especially as were going as a propper group.

damm wifeys off the phone to her mun, im off to chat again :roll:

ill post up again tommorrow, at work or tommorrow night
"Take that you rotton helping of strawberry flan!"
Joseph Porta to "strawberrys and cream", in the sven hassel book ,ogpu prison
User avatar
Sgt.Heide
Fought at the Battle of Hastings
Fought at the Battle of Hastings
Posts: 5875
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:52 pm
Location: Midlands.

Re: Operation Autumn Mist - 14th December 2008

Postby Sgt.Heide » Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:38 pm

John, your comments are appreciated, as are those of the others who've posted them (surprised there's not more though). I'm now fully recovered from the game and am now bit more philosophical about it. There were a lot of positives we can take from it and lots for us to learn and improve from as well.

We can now concentrate fully on getting ourselves sorted for Operation Lightning, for which we will have our work cut out against a determined enemy. I'll be sorting out a training itinerary in the new year and also, a fair few of you will have BGS hops to bed in as well!!
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImage

When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!

Return to “Hohenstaufen private forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest