THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY.... HOW WAS IT?

A Legion of the Dammed game to be held at Gunman Northwest Urban site, Manchester
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THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY.... HOW WAS IT?

Postby Joseph Porta » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:59 pm

Feel free to post you views below.
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Re: THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY.... HOW WAS IT?

Postby Joseph Porta » Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:14 pm

Personally , i had a great time running it.

The bayonet kills were a joy to watch and receive.
everyone was truly into the spirit of the larp weapon combat, and ive got 4 "bleeders" on my face from some excellent rifle shooting.

dedicated mg`s work well. Smgs not so well.

The next rifle only event i do will be just that, with one HMG per side, and no SMGs.

the objectives soon went out of the window , along with command and control. The players were all over the site and getting together a group big enough was really difficult.

It turned in to a very tense stalk, with small attacks for the same space of building , over and over again. just as soon as you got an area secure, you had lost so many many doing it, you were easily counter attacked and lost the ground again.

so many laugh out loud moments. but as the day wore on, i found more and more players from both sides having a breather, and people got tired. All the stairs didn't help, and my legs are like lead blocks now.

The game , whilst not going to plan and degrading into a sneaky skirmish rather than a stuctured mission plan, was still fun to run.

i hope everyone had a good time, and ill post again to any answers tomorrow

main question, was the rifle and low ammo concept FUN?

and would you do it again, or recommend it ?

thanks to all the players for attending and getting into character :good:
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Re: THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY.... HOW WAS IT?

Postby MI-GO-A-GO-GO » Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:24 pm

It was epic

i have to say one of the finest games i have played.

I truly mean it.

Highs included
The real tension about whos behind that door.
The single and semi auto action which made every shot count.
The ammo restrictions although i would have put less out cause I'm a meanie
I rarther liked the fact that there were a couple of SMGs out as it made you keep your head down
The fact that our (german ) LMG was hard work and ate ammo at a silly rate.
Our officer (Tiny) he genuinly seemed to care (sniff sniff)
Blowing myself and Porta up twice cause i refused to shoot him through a murderhole point blank. and used a grenade at the wrong time. Lesson here is shoot porta in the face.
The venue. It tiring but its actually a good size for a fast paced game

Things that could have been different to make it more epic.
Some missions or diversions in the afternoon. it got a bit samey in the last 2 hrs
It would have been nice to have a couple more pistols in play although i can see the advantage they may have given.
our regen sucked. next time roof if possible please.


All in all a great day

Thanks soo much to all involved
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Re: THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY.... HOW WAS IT?

Postby MartinR » Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:02 pm

Thank you for a good day out, another successful 'rifles only' game this time with the added dimension of lots of hand-hand combat. Single shot weapons produce a very different style of gameplay in the players.

Area control method worked fine as it encouraged people to work in groups, as mentioned above, we could have done with more of a mission structure in the afternoon.

The low ammo worked fine, although I'm not sure the small ammo caches envelopes worked very well. How about everyone starts with 50, but instead of helping themselves from the ammo crate, only the officer (or designated NCOs gives out the ammo?

Agree about losing the SMGs and even the pistols, far too big an advantage at close range against bolties.

Loved the LARP hand-hand weapons, but maybe we needed a few more molotovs although both sides were lucky enough to have a BFG grenadier.

Particularly pleased to have got a number of bayonet kills, and one rolling pin kill in the big charge at the end :)

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Re: THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY.... HOW WAS IT?

Postby prideofengland » Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:43 pm

Had a very enjoyable day, massive thanks to Tiny & Porta, my fellow Hun and even those Communist swindhunde who helped to make the day so good. I really do love bolty freindly games, although I have built a couple of my own MG's I think I have more fun with a bolt action at these games than I could have with any other weapon :good:

As a side note this the only time I have seen an MG work with the advantage of a real one and to be a key support weapon that needs using carefully. At other games they are really just a bit of fun/character but in a sea of thompsons they just aint like a proper MG. Having to use on a tripod and with a limited ammo enviroment I thought it could be a thorn in the side but did not stop the game from being a rifle freindly enviroment, Input ruskies please :good:

Highlights for me:
1) Gaming in excellant company, freind and foe :kiss:
2) Getting my first Molotov kill. Special thanks to the Ruskie who ran around screaming afterwards as if on fire :good: Just to emphasize this when a molotov landed everyone took it as a kill, no gayboy running out the door before it could go off, couldnt other game organisers make a rule to stop that nonsence (I must admit I have done it in the past but now believe such behaviour is :ghey: )
3) Getting 2 bayonet kills, Thanks to Dean for sportingly countercharging me instead of shooting me down for my first EVER bayonet kill :good:
4) Trying out my newly built springer K98 and getting a kill with the very first shot fired in anger.
5) Meeting Mi Go A Go Go and poprune, hope to see you both at some more :good:
6) Those Soviet charges with flag fluttering and an occasional inspiring speach before hand :rofl:

I agree with the above comments on the afternoons play, some structured missions would have helped, but was still good fun

Only real downside twisting my ankle at the end, wont be able to attend my usuall ballet classes for a couple of weeks :wink:
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Re: THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY.... HOW WAS IT?

Postby Yith » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:24 pm

A very long day, but also a brilliant one.

I went with some trepidation over the use of bolt actions and larp weapons. After all this is normal a non-contact activity. But it worked brilliantly. Nobody was stupid with the close combat stuff and nobody got hurt with it.

However there was quite a bit of blood coming from the faces of several people from bb shots again! I wimped out and went with a mesh lower face mask after an almost hit on my teeth again.

The atmosphere was fantastic and it really felt perfect sneaking around in there with a stupidly long mosin nagant rifle. The first time I've managed to use it in well over 12 months of owning it. It was just like sneaking around in the GUM department store in stalingrad.

Well done to Porta and Tiny for running the game, risking something very, very new and pulling it off.

I really can't praise this game enough and question why more people don't get involved with low powered bolt action games. This is the way it should be!

:good: :good: :good:
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Re: THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY.... HOW WAS IT?

Postby marsha » Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:26 am

What a great day
Rifles only worked well
Hand to hand was a laugh even clash of rifles had me in stitches
Dean ill get you next time
Only thing have to say was it got a bit confusing in what our objectives were but other then that rifles only is the way to go roll on to the next one

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Re: THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY.... HOW WAS IT?

Postby oddball » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:43 am

As said an EPIC day.

I think the MG's worked out even the Russians having the SMG was ok as it could only be one place at a time, you just didn't know where :D

I had fun lugging the MG42 about much of the day and got a 250 mag to last about 1 hour in the morning on short bursts.

Had fun with my 98k springer first 5 shots I had got me 4 kills :happydance: Had not really used that rifle in the 3-4 years I have owned it.

Great fun Porta & Tiny I would do it again.
Maybe a search site for items in the afternoon would have been a good idea (dare I say gold crates I still have :giggle: )
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Re: THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY.... HOW WAS IT?

Postby Yith » Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:18 am

I think most of us were too busy enjoying ourselves to get any photos. However when my gun went down I tool my tool bag up to the soviet regen to fix it in the daylight and found my phone so a couple of photos were taken...
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Re: THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY.... HOW WAS IT?

Postby MartinR » Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:44 am

The photos reminded me, it was also great being able to usefully use our rifles with fixed (rubber) bayonets!

Cheers
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Re: THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY.... HOW WAS IT?

Postby Wladek » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:12 am

very enjoyable, yes to rifles, more of that.

highlights?
The first time when we were 'holding' the top floor. Down to 5 men standing, and four entry points, we had to take it in turns to reload, by hand. Dean was reloading and in that time I took down 3 attackers with various bayonet charges and lunges. Most amusing.
Oh and following Dean in a charge to find him and Marsha locked in some deathly struggle (which I stabbily resolved) then following through with him to further bayonet and knife madness.

The "Melee" worked well but that is entirely dependent on players to be honest, those there at Pavlovs were top notch. I tentatively tried it at Mace, but someone trying to grab a rifle that was 'thrust' at them, and then pull it out of their attackers hands put a stop to that.
Here everyone got it. Large exaggerated moves, general thrusts, and no attempt to prove yourself some form of martial artist by 'winning' the fights.
It also gave point to the charge. How many times have I gritted teeth in the past then the Russians are gathered for the compulsory 'charge', and it surved no point at all. you run at the Germans, but cannot do anything except wait to be shot. I always thought theyw ere rubbish, this time, they were not so. That was a great improvement, and tremendous fun. (and I apologise again for launching the charge too soon, my inspirational speech was too effective :oops: )

Agree re: SMGs, no need and they change the dynamic. The only people who should have them are organisers - and in that case they are a prop, not part of the game, so not really relevant.

On a similar note Semi Automatics need to have their magazine size severely restricted. Either the shotgun mags, or a number of bbs equivalent to them (8-12) per mag definitely. It is not hard to blaze through 30 rounds with a quick trigger finger which makes really alters the dynamic.

Machine Guns? Maybe. In general yes, a single Support Weapon per side would work very well. On this site? No. It was, in it's entirety far too close for automatic fire.

Direction in the afternoon? Yes, I see that I did find myself wondering what our objective was sometimes, and that would have benefited from some command direction (however I have actually given up on the whole keeping 'command and objectives and control' at regen games, it always just evaporates anyway.)
But the site is very small, it is pretty hard, come mid afternoon, to not think one is repeating ones-self, so some variant of mission may have been good for that.

but overall a brilliant day of brilliant fun, it is fantastic to see the rifles idea moving along.
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Re: THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY.... HOW WAS IT?

Postby Lardassmonkey » Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:49 pm

It was great fun for me. Plenty of good 'kills' and glorious deaths, both by bullet and bayonet. :mrgreen: Very different from normal CQB but with the excellent standard of play so much better!
It was very tense both advancing and defending knowing a rush of enemies could easily see you overrun. Plenty of sneaking, close quarter fighting and good shooting on both sides. All in all very confusing all round; people popping up from everywhere, friendly fire galor (and bayonetting :oops: ), discovering the person you thought was friendly wasn't and so on! Organised chaos- just the way it should be really!

The melee combat worked really well as everyone go into the spirit of it and like Craig said gave a point to the charge, which for once actually worked (the second time). Even if it did end in a Benny Hill moment with Tiny being chased around the room. :rofl:

Highlights- hard to pick really but probably my first bayonet kill when holding the lower back room on my tod- Tiny tried to flank me with a knife so I just charged him and stabbed him over the barracade. Crushing several facist skulls with Stalins hammer was also good fun, however the spoon is still unbloodied- for now. :twisted:

As for comments;

The zone control system worked reasonable well but the markers needed to be bigger. It wasn't always obvious where they were or if they had been flipped. Ultimately they didn't matter really though, it wasn't recorded who won and we were enjoying ourselves too much to care. Plus the only justificaion we needed for taking an area was, like the real battle, the enemy had it and we wanted it.

A few more addtional objectives, especially in the afternoon would have been good to keep it fresh. On such a small site something akin to flipping it around by moving the respawns would have added a new dimension to the game. That way we would be attacking from a completely new direction and would in effect have to relearn the site. Plus us soviet always seemed to be attacking upstairs even though we were on the roof and meant to be essentially defending.

The ammo limit I thought was fine and even perhaps too generous with the reissue of ammo. The ammo dotted about might have worked better as a few extra ammo tins to be brought back to be dished out by the CO.

I see no reason why next time it couldn't be real steel ammo limits on mags either. You only really need 2 mags(1 if you're quick), a speedloader and the ability to count to make it work. A restricted capacity on semi-auto mags would definitely get my backing though.

SMGs, if used sparingly in the hands of an organiser to say, support a major attack, are ok but otherwise they do change the dynamic too much so are unnecessary. Mgs have a place if used pretty much as the 42 was most of the time- relatively fixed with very limited ammo. The lack of SMGs would make them even more important.

Medics- I agree the usual medic system would just lead to stalemate on that site. However one dedicated medic on each side and with limited bandages could work. That way when attacking the medic to bring wounded players back in to help hold the objective rather than just having a handful left to get easily overun like often happened after an attack. A side effect of this is being able to hear who is hit and track the course of the fight by the sound of each medic call. Plus it always looks good having a few bodies strewn about.

I think thats enough of that.

An excellent day overall and I look forward to more. Thanks again to Porta & TIny for their efforts and everyone else involved for making it so enjoyable. :good:
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Re: THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY.... HOW WAS IT?

Postby Cheeky Chappy » Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:02 pm

It sounds like it was a great day. I'm sorry to have missed out on this one. :slap:
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Re: THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY.... HOW WAS IT?

Postby TheChef » Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:13 pm

I can't agree more with all the above comments, one of the best and realistic games I've played, even as one of the "blood coming from the faces of several people" people !

    I think the HMG/SMG worked fine, but it might have been too much if we would have had an HMG and SMG per side, and agree with the comment "only time I have seen an MG work with the advantage of a real one".
    I also agree with the comment about "Semi Automatics need to have their magazine size severely restricted" as sometimes the rate of fire was just too quick for me to reload, damn nazis ;-)

Thanks for the loan of the bolty Porta, if there's going to be more games like this I'll have to get my own ! :-)
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Re: THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY.... HOW WAS IT?

Postby Chomley-Warner » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:09 pm

I echo must of the above comments regarding plus and minus points (token changing was rather pointless and therefore ignored and lack of objectives to reduce sameness as the day wore on). A very enjoyable sneaky, shooty, stabby game, thank you Porta and Tiny for your excellent efforts. :good:

I lost count of the number of times I shot or whacked Porta - no wonder his face looked like a 15 year old's acne, he was all over the place all of the time. A bit of a sadist I think!
Migoagogo's rubber stick grenade came in very useful when I (frequently) ran out of ammo.
Biffing Yith was a pleasure.
Thrusting a lead pipe up Wladek's botty also amused me. :whistle: .
Loved watching the Russians shoot each other in confusion when a small party of us made it up the Russians staircase and got into the dark corridor leading to the glory hole room. Ranj's voice was definitely cracking when he called out to his comrades for help.
And getting the shock of my life when creeping through the glory hole only to be stabbed viciously by Lipton. A bowel loosening moment :x Oh, and the ignominy of being roasted by Porta's flamethrower, caught by surprise on the stairs.
And being impressed by Viking's use of a DBoys shell ejector the whole day, and used to great effect. Never seen that done before!
Mind, I was impressed with my shooting skills - despite having no idea where my BBs were going (or even if any BBs were coming out) yet still managed to unerringly hit targets.

Biggest downer for me - was me. I still haven't 'got round' to sorting out my K98, lying in the same place it was dumped after it's last outing in September :slap: so instead grabbed the M14 with a very safe fps. However, I just couldn't stop myself double tapping to ensure I hit a target, especially if I was in danger or a target was heading towards me. And undoubtedly I was cycling quicker than the bolties were doing. Sorry, numptyism of the first order but I just couldn't stop instinctive reaction. A bit like I find it hard not to call out hit instead of aaaarrrggghh. And instead go for HIT! errrr... AAAARRGGHH! :oops: Still, this did mean I wasted two BBs where one would have done and therefore ran out of ammo, so an advantage to the enemy. Or would have been had I not been a dab hand at lurking and thwacking.

I did wonder once inside the building how such a small space would work out for a WW2 game. The number of players was perfect I think - at times we wondered where everyone was then the next moment they were all over us. The saving grace I think was the four sets of stair cases plus the glory hole - this made the game play flow over the entire building with no choke points or stalemates, astonishing really - great planning there by Anthony.

And amazing to think, despite all the firefights and constant activity how little ammo (ignoring the MG/SMs) was consumed in the five or six hours. And how funny to be eternally grateful to the Hauptmann for a meagre ration of 5 BB's!

As a rule I hate CQB. Endless blatting down corridors. Pain and bad tempers. Stalemates on stairwells. Getting fed up with the types that play the game by lobbing pyros into rooms all day. Leet room clearance routines.

However, this game was full of tension, frustration, exhilaration, fear, elation and laughs. Nice one.

EDIT: Manchester is an absolute shit hole.
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