The Past, Present and Future

we are still around, still planning and still looking forward to sharing our vision of WW2 airsoft, where the personal journey and experience transcends uniforms, guns and airsoftyness.

I am VERY pleased to hear this.

Charlie

indeed i'm also pleased as variety is the spice of life and i have yet to sample a CIA game.

Good to hear
Always loved CIA games and

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Frankly, I need a break! I've bust my balls over two very detailed gameplans that have come to nothing and I just don't want that kind of grief at the moment. The genre seems to be going over a lot of old ground and is suffering from a lack of originality and some plagiarism as well. There's also a sense of entitlement amongst some, which I find bemusing. Too many preconceptions about CiA events and those ready to stick the boot in with snidey comments about the type of events they don't have the bollocks or mindset to attempt themselves. Add that to the old problems of too many being kit whores, forum trolls, walts, keyboard warriors, gun nuts, backstabbers and open day style airsofters and, you have my own personal reasons for wanting a break.

If I don't play a WW2 game again, I will always have good memories of most of the ones I went to and, will always be very proud of "Operation Jedburgh", which showed what's possible with the right game, people, site and attitude, if they just give it a go. I've made some good friends on here but, just like a veteran WW2 soldier, I've seen most of my comrades in arms disappear, to be replaced by some who just don't get it.

For the time being, I'll be going to Flying Lead and, to IED events (which are very similar in ethos to CiA events). I hope that, just from enjoying playing, I will get my mojo back! I've got loads of ideas for WW2 games, none of which have been done before.

OK

I feel we need good teams of people in different parts of Britain to run events as best they can

We managed perfectly well with just one organiser group, before things got fragmented and diluted. This thread is about CiA, not a chance to promote your own games.

Sadly its the nature of things to wain. with so many different reasons for people to not attend, I personally couldn't attribute it to anything in particular. CIA has been and hopefully will remain the hub of WW2 airsoft.
Perhaps it is simply run its course. i doubt it really. finance is tight, yes but people are attending other games.
Are we as a whole doing enough to attract and welcome new players?
What can we do differently?
Heide makes some good points. but all forums suffer from the unavoidable Walt, keyboard king.
Thinking about it, we are a victim of our own success. CIA started to fill a niche with reminded people. it expandrdand in doing so allowed enough people to play closer to home. Without the need to travel to our games, support has fallen away.
Vietnam has become popular as it is fresh. it will remain so until we have lots of nam games and then it too will result in less and less attendance to the larger, further away ones.
Lets look at positives, build on a vast knowledge base.
Its not dead, just regrouping.
Welcome the new. return to inclusive games and niche games. perhaps this may be the answer. i cannot say.
But one thing is for sure and i have seen it creep in. we have less pictures, more pickyness and some downright unfriendly replys to new members. not the way to attract new people. push the fun, less kit Nazi
and see what happens.

But one thing is for sure and i have seen it creep in. we have less pictures, more pickyness and some downright unfriendly replys to new members. not the way to attract new people. push the fun, less kit Nazi
and see what happens.
unfriendly reply to new members. not they way

Couldn't agree more Pat. I remember my first WW2 game, going over to a large group on the Friday social to introduce myself and basically getting the cold shoulder and a sarcy comment. Made me want to not bother again. I've also seen the looks that some of the new guys get, and it seems that there's an awful lot of pressure on new guys to have almost stitch perfect kit for their first game.

But one thing is for sure and i have seen it creep in. we have less pictures, more pickyness and some downright unfriendly replys to new members. not the way to attract new people. push the fun, less kit Nazi
and see what happens.
unfriendly reply to new members. not they way

Couldn't agree more Pat. I remember my first WW2 game, going over to a large group on the Friday social to introduce myself and basically getting the cold shoulder and a sarcy comment. Made me want to not bother again. I've also seen the looks that some of the new guys get, and it seems that there's an awful lot of pressure on new guys to have almost stitch perfect kit for their first game.

I note you've never been to a CiA game. This has never happpened at one of our events. I and my fellow organisers have gone out of our way to meet and greet new players, even when we should have been doing something else.

I note you've never been to a CiA game. This has never happpened at one of our events. I and my fellow organisers have gone out of our way to meet and greet new players, even when we should have been doing something else.

Alas, this is true, they've always fallen on weekends that I can't make. It wasn't directed at CiA, more regarding the general WW2 Airsoft scene. I've never had an issue with any organisers at any of the games I've been too.

I wasn't referring to the organisers of other games, just making a point about CiA. Even I, as a long standing WW2 player, have felt unwelcome by cliques of players at some other games.

Vietnam is new??? There were more Vietnam games than WW2 before CiA started. Funny how things go in cycles.

Quite so! Meh, Nam has no depth though - no one knows anything about the who, why or reasons of the conflict, let along be able to point out where Vietnam is on a map! (Summary: good guys in green who stomp around saying 'get some', good guys who say nothing and slink around silently in stripy uniform, bad guys in black pyjamas wearing straw hats and say 'you want good time Jonny?' and bad guys in green who game organisers mistake for good guys wearing green.)

Now then, as despondent Pete pointed out, this is a forum section about CiA games and not really the place to discuss the malaise (or otherwise) of WW2 airsoft - but I'll just refute Pat's assertion that new guys aren't looked after (take a look at 'New to the forum' and see the instant and friendly encouragement) and that there is stich-counting forum members being rude to new players. These are both contentions repeatedly raised but are actually factually incorrect, that behaviour just isn't tolerated here. Some players, of course, are themselves are obsessive and stitch-counting about their own gear, and that's fine. CiA have said for years (not that anyone takes any notice) that perfect gear isn't a prerequisite to game attendance. Most other organisers do too, encouraging generic looks and offering kit lending.

So anyway, back to CiA, that is more interested in what is in your head than what you are wearing. It doesn't appeal to all - many who just like to dress up and shoot people (nothing wrong with that but it is catered for elsewhere) - but the big problem is getting like-minded players, and there are enough, to a game. Numbers matter for the simple reason that sites are expensive to hire. A five on five game would be excellent but not at £100 a head!

Now, unlike Pete, I'm much more relaxed and sanguine - I'm happy to sit it out until the time is right and I'm not mightily pissed off with players either. I don't blame anyone, things are as they are and things change over time. I've had some hugely fantastic times at CiA games, have good memories of all of them (and nightmares of all of them too - oh to be an organiser!) and while there is no point trying to re-live the past it certainly means the next CiA game has to be the equal of the best of the past games - there ain't any point putting on a poor show.

Vietnam is new??? There were more Vietnam games than WW2 before CiA started. Funny how things go in cycles.

That's the point, things go in cycles. In a few years,months, or weeks perhaps WW2 will show an up turn in interest.
CW's point about the nam games is frankly a little patronising. As a member of the uk vietnam forum, though much smaller than this one is wealth of information. I've played nam games, I've played WW2 games and I've played cowboy games and when run well are an excellent experience. When not its a SISK
Also I posed a question regarding new people , that being are we doing enough to attract them? This was not criticism. Also in your initial post you said that CIA games were special and to a point it is true but also remember it was the only WW2 game that you could go to. Then it became more main stream. Which is a point I made previously. Other organisers seem to run successful games, but what exactly is CIA trying to offer.
Rifle only games, but not all players have rifles.
British VS Germans but this excludes US players
US VS Germans but this excludes british players.
So what is the answer. Interestingly the Crete game which I would have loved to have gone to was a success. This year has been a write off for me due to a heart attack and a very game unfriendly job.
So what is the answer. If attendance at CIA games is down then it would be a fair assumption to think we are not providing games the majority of people want to attend.
In a business selling apples when the punter wants oranges is a sure fire method of failure. Your choice is to either provide oranges and hope the apples will sell. Give up the apples and sell only oranges, call it a day on fruit and retire thinking back on the good old days of apple sales or think I going to sell peaches and advertise the new exciting apple and orange hybrid.
I'm not attempting to blame any one thing. I really don't wish to see any WW2 game cancelled. People put so much time and effort into them.
But the question remains do we need to change ?

My grasp of greengrocery isn't as good as yours but no, we (CiA) don't need to change - we aren't a commercial outfit looking for a market! It would be a huge mistake and a total waste of time if we weren't true to ourselves. We don't want to appeal to the masses - again, we have done our bit to get people interested in the genre over the years (and I continue to do it pushing games out there on behalf of others, let alone game organising!) - and just the same as all other hobby organisers, we organise the games we want to play. Natch. And as we have always said, either they book or they don't. Simples. There is no point pressuring people who want a different experience - nothing worse than a player who isn't in the zone, just for the sake of numbers. Player input is an equal and vital part of the experience.

So, the issue isn't that we are cancelling games (commercial operator is though) just that we see a very crowded games scene for the given pool of players (long thread elsewhere), so took a value judgement to defer to next year. I can't pretend the loss of our July site was a huge disappointment - so much time wasted for what was going to be a unique game - so this is certainly to the forefront of our minds at the moment. But what do CiA offer you ask? Well, I've written 10,000 words on it and it it is all here and on our website for all to see. And our July game was to be the most relaxed uniform game ever - you didn't even need a WW2 uniform or even a gun. Stitch counters? Us?

(And I wasn't being patronising about nam games (although facetious ) - it was an accurate depiction of my experiences since 2003!)

Anyhoo, plenty of games this year for peeps to attend and lets see what 2014 brings...

Good, an nice tropical game would be lovely. I really want to try out my Ramcke brigade kit.

Just to clarify: CiA has never run a rifles only game, nor did we run the Crete game.

Just to clarify: CiA has never run a rifles only game, nor did we run the Crete game.

I didn't say it had. This was an example of niche games and a successful niche game. And as only four people are actually debating this, it would seem no one really cares. Ah I miss the old days ofa good healthy debate on the forum.
If this continues Ill be on what is the who is the bestest gnu thread.
Oh the answer is the African gnu, the Indian gnu is not historically accurate, breaks after a few weeks and has the wrong shape. But is ok for beginners.

You're absolutely right Pat, noone cares and, that's the sad truth of it all. You'd think that, after starting an entire genre and giving so many people so much entertainment, at least a few would show an interest in CiA. Perhaps I'm expecting too much from people? But, if people can't be arsed, then bollocks to them.