SAS Kit questions

What's the correct colour for WW2 SAS beret, did they use a cloth or metal badge in the field or retain the badge of their original regt?

Also, where can I get one of these and one of those natty little commando neck-warmer cap thingys?

Airborne beret with cloth SAS badge (embroidered for Other Ranks) both available (when I last looked) from Soldier of Fortune..... there's also Sabre Sales who are generally a lot cheaper but I don't recall having seen one of their berets (if they do them).

I recollect reading that there is some evidence of SAS in NWE 1945 having taken to wearing non-SAS headgear which was a reaction to the knowledge that they would be executed if captured though I can't remember the source...... it's probably somewhere in either Stirlings Men or Fire From The Forest which are both excellent books.

Solider of Fortune (which should ordinarily be referred to as Supplier of Last Resort, cos they're expensive) used to stock a neck-warmer (which as you say when stuffed in on itself becomes a skull cap) but their's were the wrong colour..... I don't know what their current stock is like.

Pals

Next load out - SAS, France '45 with a windproof smock, 37 webbing and a liberated MP40!

Funny thats exactly the same loadout Im working on. Just recieved my windproof smock and stuff from Sanjay.

How was your smock,quality etc and the service-customs charges etc??

I realy want one but keep hearing such horror stories about Sanjay that i realy dont want to risk my hard earned on him

Cheers

The smock is tip top. Although not up to re-enactment standards, colours and buttons being out. It'll do for airsoft.

Trousers. Will be fine once I get a fly on them. As they are rather tight to get on. Although once squoze on fit fine. I suppose I can always get a pair of Battledress trousers to wear instead.

Service - I can't fault it. Excellent communications. Super quick delivery. Ordered on about the 30th September arrived yesterday - via DHL.

The loadout I'm going for is sort of this:

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Or add a helmet and have a late war infantry one as well.

Can i please ask if you dont mind roughly what price they were with shipping,did you get stung for any fees and what size do you normaly take-and what size windproofs did you order?

Many Thanks

The loadout I'm going for is sort of this:

Or add a helmet and have a late war infantry one as well.

IMHO it's not the best guide - I can't recall any images of the SAS guys wearing skeleton webbing in NWE 44/45, most images just show them with a belt with holster (and pretty much the full range of Brit holsters) ..... ie without the x-braces and universal pouches. I'd also carry a small sack on a long strap, thereby replicating the 'escape haversack' which they kept close to hand, and which would also be very useful in airsoft for water bottle, BBs etc.

Althugh Volstad usually does his reseach he will have obvioulsy been dictated to in this case by the sculpt.

To be fair steve i've seen pics of lads on bullbasket wearing skeleton webbing (in the book 'Das Reich' i think.

It is Stirlings men that states they wore their previous units headgear or rtr berets.

Dispatch rider boots were used too in a few pics.

Officially the sas changed from a sand beret to a maroon one when they came under the control of airborne forces in '43. Some lads kept the old one. Paddy Mayne was notorious for refusing to wear the maroon one and causing trouble with higher ups.

Oh and SAS is an optional kit for PBI but we'll proabbly only use it for 'specific' events and scenarios as its far more important to portray line troops well firs tbefore we start being wild and wonderful with 'exotic' kit

I've read that a lot of guys had the windproof by the winter of 44.

Its just not that common in pics i guess.

I've seen pics of troops fighting in flushing wearing windproofs.

troops on the rhine crossing wearing them as well.

all regular infantry.

To be fair steve I've seen pics of lads on bullbasket wearing skeleton webbing (in the book 'Das Reich' I think.

It is Stirlings men that states they wore their previous units headgear or rtr berets.

Thanks for those two points Gadge.

Interesting point about Bulbasket.... haven't seen the images you mention but it was an early (the first?) op in NWE 44 and so maybe the skeleton webbing was a carry-over from Italy etc but got dropped as soon as they became primarily vehicle-borne. Also, should have made it clear in my point I was talking about Brit SAS ..... there's evidence of Belgian SAS maintaining the use of x-braces though the images I've seen were 'officer stylee'.... ie without the universal pouches.

You could well be right there but i know from experience though that without the braces i've sometimes 'lost my webbing' when moving tactically or in a hasty retreat.

I have a belt with just holster and ammo pouch and its a bugger for unclipping and falling off at times.

So i think if it were me i'd wear them anyway

Yup... when crawling its very easy for that belt buckle to come undone...

Only having the x-straps has saved me losing the lot.

Headgear -
Originally from the parent unit, but once L Det' became more than just a good idea, Stirling wanted to give the unit it's own identity, so a white beret was for a time issued, However, following numerous fights in numerous bars, the architypal sand coloured beret became the 'official' headdress, with officers also using the standard SD cap. The headdress was altered by the hierachy, (who disliked 'private armies') in March '44, to the maroon of the airborne, which the SAS was put under. However, the 'originals', inc Paddy Mayne, retained their 'own' sand coloured berets out of principle. It was not until '57 that the colour was changed back 'officially' to sand.
All ranks used cloth wings on their headgear - Stirling's ethos was that there should be no 'distinction' between officers and men, as they needed to work together as a team to survive. The cloth badges, usually made to a fairly crude design, were often made locally or in theatre, hence all the variations. Metal cap badges have never been used by 22 SAS, with the exception of a special Bi-Metal 'ceremonial' issue for the coronation; 21 Reg having their own 'Artists' cap badge. 'WW2 SAS' metal cap badges, as listed on ebay etc are either fake or from one of the associated regs, ie Belgian, SA, NZ, Aussie, etc., who have virtually identical wings.
Scrim used as headscarves, headovers, civvy hats etc were all used, depending on what was available and local circumstances. The WW2 headovers were a different shade to the current design but a) very few people will know that and b) if you photoshop any pics into b+w, no one can tell anyway

Smock/BD -
Don't get hung up over 'having to' have an 'SAS' windproof. They were used, however so were denisons (if prev issue at parent reg. or 'acquired' since), BD's of whatever design was to hand, denims (particularly post-Italy), jumpers & leather jerkins, all 'mixed and matched' to comfort.

Trousers -
Same as Smocks, various designs, dependent on supply, including any Axis sets, to supplement worn/damaged kit, if no re-sup available - better enemy trews than a cold, wet a*** !

Boots -
Either standard low type with gaiters or puttees (often more popular), despatch riders boots if available as higher and more water-resiliant; German boots/jack boots were also worn.

Webbing - For NWE, normally just 'belt kit' (ie sans cross straps, altough I would agree with the comments that they can fall off - 1 reason why roll pin belts came to be used later on ), pouches dependent on weapon. MT pouches were popular, when available, as they could slide around for comfort/movement. Holsters were normally low slung. A shoulder bag would be used for dems, spare rats, etc., either 37 patt or locally 'found'/liberated.

Weapons -
Primary normally 9mm, either Sten or MP38/40, for ease of re-sup or Lee Enfield, (normally used in a sharp shooter/sniping role, as 'devestating' fire power was the order of the day)
Secondary would be normally be a 9mm auto, again for ease of resup, and to save weight on carrying 2 sets of ammo - either a P38, Luger, or Browning, or a Colt (often used in conjunction with a Thompson)
An F/S or Trench knife was normally carried, either in the leg pocket or in the right boot (if high legged)

As noted, there was A LOT or variation, as the troops were often 'behind the lines', on the likes of Op Bullbasket, Houndsworth, etc., for protracted periods, so what was used was what was to hand, and if it was civvy or enemy etc, then if it worked, fine !

For versatility, stick with normal boots, gaiters, wartime pattern trews, either denims or ideally (if you can find the size) BD's, a reasonable denison (not Belgian or badged up) and a basic 37 patt webset (blanco'd).
All you then need to do is have 3 berets - I maroon South Staffs / Para badged, 1 sand/maroon SAS badged (sewn on, hence 2 maroons) and 1 green Commando badged - that should cover virtually all scenarios.

Any more regiment-related q's, background, etc. required, please feel free to PM me

Joker that is awesome, mind if we copy that and sticky it in the PBI section as a guide.

If you could find some ref pics to go with your text and or put any more in I'd be over the moon

cracking stuff chap!

Yeah very nice indeed!

That's a fantastic guide Joker, many thanks!

Cheers lads - answers all my questions!

It's a windproof plus sand beret for when Gadge says I can get all Special Ops and a maroon beret / tin hat / warmer for when Stirling's boys weren't employed... Although I struggle to think of an Oppo in NWE where you couldn't argue for some SAS involvement... Hey, if you know we're there, we're not doing our job properly

Sorry - one more question: is this http://www.replicaters.com/ww2britarmy.html where to get my suit from? Or is there somewhere better?

If you look on general discussion, latest aquisitions i've just reviewd my new windproof.

pics later

Joker that is awesome, mind if we copy that and sticky it in the PBI section as a guide.

If you could find some ref pics to go with your text and or put any more in I'd be over the moon

cracking stuff chap!

Not a problem to 'sticky' it. I can put you some more details in and should be able to find at least some reference pics - just need to work out how to get them into the computer as no scanner to hand - leave it with me

... I struggle to think of an Oppo in NWE where you couldn't argue for some SAS involvement... Hey, if you know we're there, we're not doing our job properly

Post-maroon beret the regiment was severely hampered by a combination of (David) Stirling's leadership being absent, a dislike/misunderstanding of what the SAS were about by High Command and 'rivalry' from the likes of SOE.
This led to mis-deployment into a 'normal' airborne role, instead of the original concept of small-scale 'lightening' strikes behind the lines, where the enemy were least expecting it. Even with 'Bullbasket', 'Houndsworth' etc., the concept was 'stretched' by the extended tours (leading to betrayals from local factions and SAS deaths). However, the point of leaving the lads 'in the barrel' was that the Germans DID know that they were there and ended up using massively disproportionate forces to try to hunt them down, tying up valuable manpower that could have been used against the Allies on other fronts.