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 Yith
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According to "Arnhem: Operation Market Garden" by Stephen Badsey the ferrying across the river was done by

...two companies of the Royal Canadian Engineers with 21 stormboats and two Royal Engineer companies with sixteen assault boats

A few paragraphs above that it says:

101st Airborne cleared the mines and re-opened Hell's Highway for good

So it looks like they were busy elsewhere!

Now I'm not going to say that Easy Company weren't there... but I've found nothing to back up the BoB account yet.

It also says:

...SS-Kamfgruppe 'von Allworden' with the new King Tigers of 506th Heavy Tank Battalion attacked that afternoon (the day of Operation Berlin) from the east driving deep into Urquhart's position and threatening to encicle 1st British Airborne.

So some "Tigers" were there! ;)


 
Posted : 31/03/2007 7:13 pm
Gliderrider
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I knew their were heavy's around oosterbeek, I was just getting my sauces to do a propper quote. You beat me to it yith :D



 
Posted : 31/03/2007 7:24 pm
spiers
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I do apologise if my source (not note plural haha) was innaccurate. Wasn't calling you a smart arse Gadge it was the comment off Barrie and Anne
"It's in Band of Brothers so it must be true lol!"
which I thought was dead productive and added lots of relevant information to the discussion...especially the bit at the end "lol" really good that was.
I surrender, maybe they weren't there...I hang my head in shame.


Show me a man who will jump out of an airplane, and I'll show you a man who will fight!
General James M. Gavin

CRY HAVOC AND LET LOOSE THE DOGS OF WAR

 
Posted : 31/03/2007 7:51 pm
Gliderrider
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I do apologise if my source (not note plural haha) was innaccurate. Wasn't calling you a smart arse Gadge it was the comment off Barrie and Anne
"It's in Band of Brothers so it must be true lol!"
which I thought was dead productive and added lots of relevant information to the discussion...especially the bit at the end "lol" really good that was.
I surrender, maybe they weren't there...I hang my head in shame.

If you'd of put the rider 'I thought' in front of that you would have got better responses.



 
Posted : 31/03/2007 7:57 pm
HeadShot
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OK, interjection needed, this from the critique on BoB from Mark Bando's excellent website "Trigger Time". Bando is considered to be quite an authority on the 101st and is well known by many of the vets and has written books on the company.

As you'll see, the company were given a citation for the action, so it's hard to deny that it happened.

See: http://www.101airborneww2.com/

It even mentions Speirs at the end... ;) (BTW, that's not a typo, it's Speirs with the 'e' before the 'i')

---

The Night Rescue of Brit Arnhem Survivors

During the first ten days after the 17 September landings near Arnhem, the British Airborne lost over 7,000 men in killed, wounded, and missing. They had unknowingly descended upon the 2 panzer divisions of the IInd SS Panzer Corps, which were refitting after their summer retreat from Normandy. The bulk of the Brit survivors of Arnhem withdrew across the Neder Rhine river in late September. But over 120 others, along with a handful of downed Allied flyers, were hiding on Dutch farms some miles west of Arnhem. These fugitives lived for over a month in constant terror of being discovered by the Germans, and were near starvation. Their leader, Colonel Dobey (a.k.a. "The Mad Colonel of Arnhem"), swam across the Neder Rhine to arrange for a daring night rescue of his comrades by the 101st Airborne. This involved crossing the water barrier in darkness and quietly ferrying the Brit survivors to safety on the south shore. It had to be accomplished with stealth to avoid alerting German forces on the north shore. A mass disruption and major shootout with the krauts at that point would've caused the entire rescue to fail. This was a complex plan, with phase lines, flare signals, diversionary artillery fire, registered artillery support if needed, artillery liasons from the 321st GFA, flank security from G/501 PIR, etc. But the main American contact troops were members of Easy 506th. This humanitarian mission of mercy was among their most important accomplishments of WW2. As a result of its success, over 120 Allied troops were salvaged from destruction. Very little of this was explained in the series, which devoted only five minutes to the entire subject, probably because there was no shooting involved.

The E/506th participants, known as the "covering force", received a Battlefield Citation for this accomplishment. Walter Gordon sent me a copy of the Citation in 1976, which lists the following names: Lt Frederick T. Heyliger (Commanding), 1st Lt Harry Welsh, 2nd Lt Edward D. Shames, Sgt Robert F. Mann, T/4 John McGrath, T/4 Charles E. Rhinehardt, Cpl. Walter S. Gordon, Cpl Francis J. Mellett, T/5 Ralph Stafford, Pfc Bradford C. Freeman, Pfc Walter L. Hendrix, Pfc Gerald L. Flurrie, Pfc Edward A. Mauser, Pfc James A. McMahon, Pfc Wayne A. Sisk, Pfc Robert E. Wynn, Pfc Siles E. Harrellson, Pvt Lester Hashey, Pvt John C. Lynch, and Pvt David R. Pierce.

The citation, signed by Colonel Sink, concludes with the words:

"So well organized and executed was this undertaking that the enemy never knew an evacuation had taken place."

Walter Gordon was really proud of this rescue and he seemed to consider his participation in it one of the best things he had accomplished in WW2.

As an incidental piece of information, the first American soldier known to cross the Neder Rhine to the enemy shore in this sector, was Lt Ronald Speirs. He was still a member of Dog Company at the time (10 October, 1944.) The fearless lieutenant swam to the German side of the river and later returned the same way, with an enemy bullet in his butt. This legendary officer was awarded the Silver Star for this action in 101st Airborne General Orders #11, dated 12 April, 1945.

----




 
Posted : 31/03/2007 10:08 pm
 Yith
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Fair enough mystery solved, thanks steve!

Note though that any 101st involvement in the arnhem game would have to be in the last 5mins! (or maybe even after the game finished) ;)


 
Posted : 31/03/2007 10:38 pm
Steiner
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Group hug guys. Spiers, I hope you don't get the wrong impression from this thread, since you're a new arrival here - we're a balance of friendly people, trying to be inclusive, but also with an eye for historical accuracy. :)



You've got nothing to ein, zwei, drei, vier

 
Posted : 31/03/2007 10:52 pm
HeadShot
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Fair enough mystery solved, thanks steve!

Note though that any 101st involvement in the arnhem game would have to be in the last 5mins! (or maybe even after the game finished) ;)

Indeed, like it says, the 101st's involvement was over a month after the initial withdrawal from Arnhem.




 
Posted : 31/03/2007 10:56 pm
Gadge
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Tigers and Tiger II were both deployed at arnhem in the latter days.

Mjr Cain destoryed two Tiger I s personaly

The south staffords destoryed at least one tiger II





"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."

 
Posted : 01/04/2007 2:59 am
Gadge
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Phot evidence of tiger II at least in osterbeek in 'it never snows'

Actually the order of battle for kampgruppe spindler states the arrival of Tiger I and II on 18 september.

15 Tiger II are listed, no number for tiger I





"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."

 
Posted : 01/04/2007 12:02 pm
spiers
(@spiers)
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Hey why would I get the wrong idea, nothing wrong with a bit of harmless banter, I was racking my brain last night, and I think that the boats they rowed across in were borrowed from the Canadian Engineers. Just to clarify I haven't checked that against any sources. Either way yeah mystery solved. On a lighter note, anybody seen the pics of Oddball's .30 Cal machine gun AEG? It looks a bit fun, can't wait to try it out.


Show me a man who will jump out of an airplane, and I'll show you a man who will fight!
General James M. Gavin

CRY HAVOC AND LET LOOSE THE DOGS OF WAR

 
Posted : 01/04/2007 12:08 pm
Gadge
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Oddballs a genius for making that...

Hey i've just thought.. phoenix have a .50cal, i wonder if we could borrow it to make a fixed position ffor the day.





"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."

 
Posted : 01/04/2007 12:11 pm
Gadge
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Actually as spiers said.. good debate this and its iincreased my knowledge as i didnt know they were still recovering airborne lads form Arnhem a month later.





"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."

 
Posted : 01/04/2007 12:14 pm
spiers
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I think a fixed position sounds like a great idea, need to ask oddball though because he'd have to bring the tripod with him, it's mounted on the jeep at the moment. The ride down there is going to be fun!


Show me a man who will jump out of an airplane, and I'll show you a man who will fight!
General James M. Gavin

CRY HAVOC AND LET LOOSE THE DOGS OF WAR

 
Posted : 01/04/2007 2:50 pm
Chomley-Warner
(@admin-infinity)
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Gadge meant the Phoenix 50cal - it's had the barrel busted but will be good for a prop.


 
Posted : 01/04/2007 4:22 pm
Steve.D
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Oddball should bring his trailer as I think he has several browning .30 cal de-accs & a mg42 too on a huge tri pod, would make nice props :wink:

Steve.D


 
Posted : 01/04/2007 11:20 pm
Gliderrider
(@gliderrider)
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Thats called a laffet tripod steve and they are worth a mint.



 
Posted : 02/04/2007 5:51 am
 Yith
(@yith)
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sounds good to me steve!

When are you guys coming down, on the sat or sun?


 
Posted : 02/04/2007 8:25 am
spiers
(@spiers)
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A fixed position without any heavy weapons? when there will be a .30 Cal that works? oddballs got 3 x .30 Cals including the AEG and an MG42 and the BAR might look quite good too. I know its a US weapon but well ya know! I hope oddball doesn't mind me listing his full arsenal haha But anybody who's picked up a .30 Cal or an MG42 though knows they're a bugger to carry and weigh a ton! And that's not including the tripod. I'm pretty well built and I was ready to put it down after about 30seconds.


Show me a man who will jump out of an airplane, and I'll show you a man who will fight!
General James M. Gavin

CRY HAVOC AND LET LOOSE THE DOGS OF WAR

 
Posted : 02/04/2007 12:08 pm
spiers
(@spiers)
Posts: 2127
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Topic starter
 

And the MG42 is just on a bipod don't think he's got the huge antiaircraft tripod...but I could be wrong.


Show me a man who will jump out of an airplane, and I'll show you a man who will fight!
General James M. Gavin

CRY HAVOC AND LET LOOSE THE DOGS OF WAR

 
Posted : 02/04/2007 12:10 pm
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