Point taken Gadge 
but i dont think the Germans would ever win hands down at any game but its nice to feel when you worked hard on the day it pays off.(Mainly to give you Allies plenty of shit round the camp fire 
before you start i was only joking)
PS getting my boat varnished for the invasion of England
it may not be TO plausible or detained but me and some friends have played an alternate history game where after the battle of britain, the germans out for revenge pretty much decimated the british fleet leaving them completely land and air based and on the defensive, and with britain only being able to build up it's defenses on the island and short bombing runs into france and belgium, and with all their troops abroad having no real way of resupply or reinforcements they don't pose as much of a threat to germany anymore. so germany set its sites on russia and without having to deal with two fronts on a large scale they actually succeed in taking russia. hitler also convinces the the japanese to not attack pearl harbor by sending them oil from the newly taken russian oilfields, so america doesn't get into the war at the end of '41 but instead in about '43. so then the germans along with the newly conscripted russians decide to finish off britain, roosevelt seeing this as the threat it is finally convinces congress and the american people that war is inevitable and best done now while we still have an ally in the fight. so america uses northern ireland as a launching point to come in thru scotland to help the brits there, where heavy fighting is happening between the brits and the axis in thru norway and also to help in the south where the brits have managed to stop the combined german/russian assault at the midlands.
i do this years into this campaign when its pretty much a stalemate in france after pushing the germans and russians out of britain across the channel and after completely beating them in norway (about 49 or 50). and really only thought of it because most of my friends have ak47's, so it would be fairly plausible to use them in this situation, also m14's for the american side since in this scenario the production of an advanced version of the garand would have been stepped up.
i know there is the "counts as" rule but i would rather dream up some whole fantasy situation to be able to use the weapons for what they are than have to resort to substitutes. =p
As a war gamer i'm used to playing with different objectives on each side (have you seen the armies I play? I need them to get any victories at all 
), i'm more than happy to play such on the skirmish field. Though it can lead to the confusing situation where both sides can legitimately claim victory.
As for the late war emphasis, well the Germans can win local actions and often did. From the hardened veterans of many fronts to the desperate conscript volksdeutch landser, records are full of them pulling off local victories and frustrating local allied plans. But overall, the general trend was against them.
Remember the last 'proper' battle of the American Civil war was a confederate victory,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Palmito_Ranch
Didn't change a thing there.
For a control mechanism, think of the smart/stupid balance of those adverts a few years ago. So while the In game Germans pull off the mother of all victories in a Normandy 44 game, you can bet your Spanish donkey that a battalion commander further down the line has made a right royal mess up, that caused things to go back on track. However the unit involved in the victory may get some gucci kit the next game and the high command likes to reward success, not prop up failure (those Bavarians to your left flank messed up, do you want the nerbleweffer fire support they were supposed to get?).
Al long as all in the game know that this is being done, and why, no problem.
As to what if games, on one hand yes, but on another, not so sure. I'd prefer them to be a bit more generic (Banana republics, Cold war goes hot etc) . WW2 goes on, its not something that personally grabbed me (unless it involves mecha, or real hairy werewolves!).
I think there is a reason why WW2 and Vietnam games have appeal. We have all seen the movies. We may not know the why’s etc, but (sweeping statement) “everyone just knows†just enough for the un-initiated player to jump right in and know who’s who, and what one side or the other should look like without any history lesson.
A Banana Republic Campaign could be fun (somewhere in the 3rd world, sometime between the 50’s and 70’s) I think the idea has nowhere near the “instant†appeal and recognition for the uninformed or casual player just to drop in and understand enough to play without a brief history lesson. But that discussion has a place, and that place is not here.
The 3rd Reich in 1946/47 however, is still “out there†enough to demand at least an explanation of why history changed and that could potentially alienate players.
Maybe I’m wrong on that one though.
To the tune of "Mademoiselle from Armentières"
Napoleons army ran away, As you do
The guard stood firm for Frances Pride, As you do
They said the guard will stand and die
But we heard what their Colonel cried
It wasn't pretty I tell you.
Resistance is fertile
I love the ideas that come out of peeps imagination, especialy when your taking fact and adding your own bit of fiction to it. Must of missed this first time round as I totally agree with Gaz on the 'Why do the Germans always have to lose' and even though the battle D-Day events play out have a historical story, we add objectives such as capturing supplies or collecting the stolen art works whilst the army pull out so the Germans CAN still have victory even though the story says they lose.
Hinterlands we had buried Gold bars the germans needed to dig up and retreave from behind enermy lines and mines the brits needed to find with a detector. These where on top of all the main objectives so personel wins could be done.
Re-writting history isn't a bad thing if yopu end up with a plausable story for the guys to get stuck into. Hence the Secret missions of ww2 games we run.
I seem to remember a game a few years back called The Thirteeth Hour about the Nazi victory and the world under the German yoke...Gadge..do you remember it, I think it was a larp game?? 
Good thread, glad its back
Heer Schmidt
an example of a German victory in 1945
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granville_Raid
'ear' witness account
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stor ... 1352.shtml
Must admit I'm in awe of the audacity and testicular fortitude displayed.
To the tune of "Mademoiselle from Armentières"
Napoleons army ran away, As you do
The guard stood firm for Frances Pride, As you do
They said the guard will stand and die
But we heard what their Colonel cried
It wasn't pretty I tell you.
Resistance is fertile
Very interesting. I must admit i do like the idea of playing a 'What if' game. Oh to play Operation Sealion and the chance for Aux units and the like.
I'm a hero with coward's legs.
