Ah the respect thing. stop fooling your self into thinking we are respecting any one by dressing up and firing little white balls at each other. Sgt heide says" if you don't follow orders people die" They don't. they don't even get hurt. its bollox, its cowboy and indians for big boys. Yo want to respect the war dead. go buy some flowers and lay them on the graves of the dead soldiers, no one visits them.
Hey heres an idea, lets nip down to a family of one of the dead service men in afganistan. we can have a game near them and tell them we are honouring their dead son or daughter. I sure they would love that. We have not lived in a time of global conflict, we have not suffered, lost, mourned a generation. The more I read, the more I am convinced I am a absolute hyprocrite. War in all its forms is evil, nothing good can come from evil and dress it up how you like, live in a field, eat rations and sing lilly marlene, you nor I will not know the abject terror of war and for that thank God/Allah/ Yahwe and every other deity.
Airsofting, re enacting perhaps its all the same, but don't for one second think that we are doing this for any bar ourselves.
Taking orders, lads, sorry but its a game. While I would be very critical of someone who refuses to act in the spirit of the game and buggers it for others
The problem is, not following said orders very often does act against the spirit of the game and does bugger it for others, including the organisers.
The people likely to be giving the orders are generally the organisers, or people acting on their behalf, and so know what they need to get done to get the best out of the site/scenario/game, *and* make sure all players have a good day of shooting, sneaking etc. Ignoring that, running off and slotting the first germans/yanks/brits you find may well be fun, but can easily f*ck up half the game. I believe (though i wasn't there) that this happened at the last CiA game, and caused no end of hassle.
Until players get into the mindset of doing what they're told by their side's command, it's still just a SISK.
Ah the respect thing. stop fooling your self into thinking we are respecting any one by dressing up and firing little white balls at each other. Sgt heide says" if you don't follow orders people die" They don't. they don't even get hurt. its bollox, its cowboy and indians for big boys. Yo want to respect the war dead. go buy some flowers and lay them on the graves of the dead soldiers, no one visits them.
Hey heres an idea, lets nip down to a family of one of the dead service men in afganistan. we can have a game near them and tell them we are honouring their dead son or daughter. I sure they would love that. We have not lived in a time of global conflict, we have not suffered, lost, mourned a generation. The more I read, the more I am convinced I am a absolute hyprocrite. War in all its forms is evil, nothing good can come from evil and dress it up how you like, live in a field, eat rations and sing lilly marlene, you nor I will not know the abject terror of war and for that thank God/Allah/ Yahwe and every other deity.
Airsofting, re enacting perhaps its all the same, but don't for one second think that we are doing this for any bar ourselves.
You see here i have to disagree.
If you do your kit properly, wear it properly and show respect most veterans you meet are impressed and some truly overawed.
Yith and I have met a woman who could not thank us enough for representing chindits and the 'forgotten army' at Crich a few years back, she was most moved as her husband had been a chindit and fought bravely but nobody remembered them.
Equally we met a Cameronian veteran of operation Thursday who was very happy to see the uniforms and kit he had not seen for 60 years.
Last Crich i had an old sweat who must have been in his 80s delighted to hold a lee enfield again and show me his rifle drill...
Now granted very little of that come out of airsofting but when you do both the respect thing is paramount.
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
Sort of agree with you there Imp. From my POV its avoiding disrespecting the fallen rather than playing to respecting the fallen for me, if that makes any sense! As an example I wouldn't take part in any church parade or memorial service honouring the dead wearing WW2 uniform. I would feel incredibly stupid standing there in dressing up. I've never been a soldier (I blame the flat feet) and I don't pretend to have been one either. Many do of course, no problem with that but it just doesn't sit comfortably with me.
Yes of course there is a degree of adults playing childish games, that's a given, but some are looking to get a lot more out of it than that. That's why some say they aren't bothered about firing a shot - it's the suspension of disbelief that is the goal not blatting your mates.
And yes again, if you over-analyse what we do then it is incredibly stupid - some might even say its glorifying war. We all rationalise what we do in different ways - I take the 'living the past' angle, others might be 'the uniform is cool' or 'my grandfather was a commando' etc etc.
You're completely missing my point Imp, although I understand your reluctance for "full blown" reenacting. WW2 is in history, not a current conflict, like Afghanistan or Iraq.
Speak for yourself but I'm not doing this just for myself, I try to get my kit and my whole outlook as close to a WW2 soldier as possible and I have MASSIVE respect for the soldiers of WW2, otherwise I may as well wear DPM or multicam and run round with the rest of the airsoft herd on an open day, with no direction and no real purpose. Personally, I've moved on from that and so have many others.
If you noticed, I used the word "die" in a purely metaphorical sense, so it's not "bollox" to use it in that sense and I thank God that noone really gets hurt or maimed. I've been in a real battle and it's not a pretty sight!
However, if we are trying to recreate (as close as possible) an actual historical battle, we need to suspend disbelief and see that there are consequences for actions/lack of actions. If people just run around, like DM said, it's just a SISK. I personally think it's a bit selfish of the people who digress from the game plan to fulfil their own agendas and it's massively disrespectful to those who've put time and effort into trying to organise a realistic, immersive event.
When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!
Imp you're right in one way. Dressing up accurately and running around in a field is not a way to respect the soldiers of WWII.
However if you feel you want to do that, and we all do here, then to do it wrongly is certainly a way to disrespect them.
I don't hang around in graveyards and don't want to, I'm not that morbid. But I will attend shows to the public to help ensure the guys aren't forgotten. At those shows, as Gadge has pointed out, many veterans are happy to see us in their old kit, handle the weapons they used so many years ago and chat about their experiences.
However for every veteran that attends and enjoys those shows I'm sure their are many that don't and see what we do as wrong. That's personal opinion and I understand their position. Luckily we have the few that come and really make it worthwhile.
For me the only reason why we don't really want people with beards and/or long hair at re-enactment shows is one of accuracy. Hollywood already takes enough liberties with history. I'd rather not make it worse. To do so would defeat the point of public shows which in the end should be as much about education as having fun.
Me, Gadge and the rest of TFSS with a veteran Chindit at Renishaw Hall last year:
Oooo look beards!
Taking orders, lads, sorry but its a game. While I would be very critical of someone who refuses to act in the spirit of the game and buggers it for others
The problem is, not following said orders very often does act against the spirit of the game and does bugger it for others, including the organisers.
Another point is that at our last few games we've laid some pretty hefty pyro that could do some serious damage if someone was too close; hence the need for directional ordering!
Do it at a public reenactment battle and you'd could be run over by a tank or blown up by some of the immense pyro Poacher and PD put together! That's why many of those battles are so tightly scripted.
The thing is there are plenty of ways to re-enact around personal choices, race, gender etc and still be inclusive.
Beards for example are acceptable on to my knowledge....
German eastern front soldiers
Russian soldiers
British Army pioneer SGTs
British commando in the agean/greek islands
German mountain troops
And.. *anybody* who might have been excused shaving for medical grounds or allowed a beard because of facila scarring... knock yourself up a repro doctorss slip and a not e in your paybook...
As Rich mentioned the commonwealth had black, asian, white, indian etc etc soldiers in nealry every arm or service.
Most armies had female soldiers and some even combatant.
What you probably cant do with any respect though is for example myself deciding to re-enact a sikh infantryman no matter how much I respect them.
I dont think re-enactment is that exclusive there are plenty of avenues you can go down just not all of them...
Equally I dont think anyone would be too impressed if i dressed up as a nursing helferin no matter how much i liked the uniform 
I know in a few years time i'll either be re-enacting corp and support type troops or home guard, i cant see myself as wanting to do brit airborne forever.
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
I suppose im still going to have to go with the term I made up for myself witch is reinactsofter, its both realy, if my kit was 100% accurate I would call myself a reinactor but due to money my kit may never be 100% correct, however my US and German kit is of a decent enough standard that I could call myself a reinactor and I have seen reinactors with less accurate kit than mine at public events so the line is hazy.
On the note of following orders. My experience on the US team at Haggard, no orders just spent most of the time wandering around looking for germans to kill < My experience at Husky on the British team, clear shouted orders clearly laid out plans, actual squad tactics = alot more fun and alot more immersive.
Like said before I got into WW2 airsoft because of my interest from films and games, but as I built my kit I researched from other sources to try and make it as accurate as I can and I guess thats a reinactor trait as a standard airsofter would buy all the stuff from SOF and not give a toss if it was right or not. And as I have sold all my Modern stuff and am strictly staying to Historical loadouts only (WW2, NAM, Cold War) as although I think ultra modern stuff like USMC kit is cool I dont find it as interesting.
My view on the whole respect for the veterans thing is if you are genuanely interested in the "History" rather than blatting at your mates pretending you are tom hanks and strive to put the efort in to try and get even a little hint of how it may have been like I would not class that as dissrespectfull.
Despite how uncomfotable or itchy the kit may be I would not even think about wearing modern substitutes.
I may as well wear DPM or multicam and run round with the rest of the airsoft herd on an open day, with no direction and no real purpose. Personally, I've moved on from that and so have many others.
Could you possibly rein that in? Every other post seems to be something about how 'stupid' regular skirmishing is, how anything but realism is a waste of time. People are allowed to enjoy a variety of hobbies, and just because they don't match yours, there is no need to become abrasive about it.
I understand there is a great deal of passion about the subject matter among the members here, but its the beginning of the same slippery slope that mainstream reanactment has taken.
It's a fact that some members on here have grown tired of open day skirmishing... Many who gave it up for good feel the same. I haven't yet, but I am also very careful about where I go and do my open days.
Lets put it this way, for every person who says that regular skirmishing is silly there's also one that says that re-enactment is anal and eliteist. In actual fact BOTH points of view are only correct some times. Regular skirmishing can be very good indeed when it works well and re-enactment can also be very welcoming.
To say otherwise is actually prejudice, plain and simple.
So if Sgt Heide can't talk about what he thinks regular skirmishing is like, then you shouldn't talk about what re-enactment is like. You may have your own personal experiences and opinions, but neither is particularly wrong or particularly right.
Lets keep discussing this and keep it all friendly... 
There's a reason why I sit on the fence for most stuff...
Could you possibly rein that in? Every other post seems to be something about how 'stupid' regular skirmishing is, how anything but realism is a waste of time. People are allowed to enjoy a variety of hobbies, and just because they don't match yours, there is no need to become abrasive about it.
I understand there is a great deal of passion about the subject matter among the members here, but its the beginning of the same slippery slope that mainstream reanactment has taken.
I'm expressing an opinion, so, no, I won't "rein it in". If you enjoy that kind of airsofting, then fair enough and I won't knock you for it, it's just that persoanlly, I don't enjoy it as mostly it's devoid of any real immersion and a total blatfest. I'll always defend WW2 airsoft from slipping down the slope to becoming the same thing, just in WW2 kit. I thought that those gravitating to WW2 airsoft/reenactment wanted a bit more from the events, that's all, whether it be in the level of their kit, or in how "immersed" they want to get.
When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!
Its incredibly important to remember that one of the main reasons this site exists, that CiA was formed and that the WWII airsoft scene has took of is that quite simply:
We were all sick of regular skirmishing and wanted something more...
We created a game we wanted to play cos it didnt exist then... since then things have grown and progressed and for the better i feel.
So if some folk seem a little jaded with open days its more than likely because we all came here for an antidote to high caps and random kit.
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
Yes, please I asked for person opinions here
No one is being dictatorial saying you must do this or that - I did say in my initial post, the rules of this thread, that there is no right or wrong answer, just personal viewpoints.
Incidentally, debate has been top notch so far (if we could steer clear of conventional reenactment then so much the better ).
Incidentally, debate has been top notch so far (if we could steer clear of conventional reenactment then so much the better
I'm not sure what you mean by that?
There's a reason why I sit on the fence for most stuff...
It's because you like the feel of the spikes on your bum isn't it? Go on, admit it!
Heh... and I am the exception... I'm not jaded by Open Days and never was. I just like to explore the whole of the hobby...
It was actually the same when I did modern airsoft. I took part in all sorts of different weekenders, training and whatnot.
There's a reason why I sit on the fence for most stuff...
It's because you like the feel of the spikes on your bum isn't it? Go on, admit it!
In the same way that I'm careful which Open Days I attend, I'm also careful which fences I sit on.
Fences with spikes on are just not my style, are they yours?
Personally I prefer barbed wire or even better razor wire.
i have seen good reenacting, and i have seen bad reenacting. i have had good open days and bad. the bad reenacting hasnt cost me 25 quid, the crappy blatfests have. its been said many times and i will say it again, its the people who make the experience. open days leave me cold, loads of walts ( a few decent blokes though to be honest) with an AEG that comes with a beaten zone. no thanks. ww2 with guys who put the effort in and want to be part of a team more than leading one. yes please. i have been to reenactments in airsoft ww2 gear with an AEG and no-one knew till i told them. its becoming a blurred line, we need to be forward looking, rather than two seperate camps, i know reenactors who are itching to get there ukara so they can play a game. i know others who look at us like we just raped thier sister. its all about an open mind and attitude.
i have been to reenactments in airsoft ww2 gear with an AEG and no-one knew till i told them.
I noticed a few TM M1A1's at the war and peace show a while back
We also shouldn't allow a blurring of the line between reality and pretendy.
Real war is obviously shit. Some people die and others are irrevocably fucked up. Not everyone who has been there wants to be reminded of it. My grandad refused to go to any old comrades gig. In his words "It was bad enough being there, why would I want to remember it?"
WWII airsofting, re-enacting, re-enairsofting or Nu-re-enairsofting (my personal favourite) has much more in common with war movies - it look cool, the bullets and bombs are fake everyone stays alive and well and gets home before teatime.
We do it because it's fun and because we like dressing up and playing at soldiers. I'd have to walk away gritting my teeth if I ever heard a re-enactor say something like "we dropped into Arnhem wearing one of these" - no mate, YOU didn't do any such thing!!!