New round limits and regen thoughts

Tempted to agree with you Josh.

We ran a 'brits on 300 rounds' mission at varisty and no one found it too stressful.

300 rounds is also conveniently a full set of mp40 mags pouched up.

Already implemented for our next game people loved 600 so think 300 is going to make it even better

Yeah, with the restrictions of 300rnds,... (...and a Thompson!) I was trying to place shots a well as possible and pulling the trigger at the last possible moment. Ended up never using more than two 60rnd lo-caps worth*!

*But then again that could be saying something about how long (or not so long) I managed to stay alive for each 'life'.

Could be an issue on denser wooded sites.

It's an idea that's been bandied about among Kampfgruppe SS for a future game with PBI as well. Though I think the 600 round limit works and has worked well enough at the CiA games I've been to as well.

Two points for me:

1) While lower round limits may make people more careful with rounds used it will surely mean more trips to regen to reload, trips to regen being the biggest knackerer of any game esp. weekenders and CiA games that are continuous and without breaks. And I can't stand people hanging around at regens having a 'breather' while their mates are being slaughtered either!

2) Apart from a major engagement most people don't get through 600 rounds before they are killed, so the limit is academic in any case (a bit like giving a sniper 1,000 round limit). I think the first game I ever went back to regen to reload was at Husky (but to be fair, I don't get to shoot a lot anyway).

(LOL, I was just thinking back to five years ago when I'd play on open day games with 6 x 420rnd Thompson mags and refill them in just a 45 minute game! Happy days!)

Point 1 is a very good one and I hope I am on top of it, regen points must be close so people don't get left behind

Yeah but games dont *have* to be regens all the time.

Personally i prefer non regen games.

regens breakdown the momentum of an attack IMO, and just drag it out into a slogging match, all aim and cohesion gets lost as people amble about to and from. i think ammo limits are about right, at husky i ran dry a few times ( the terrian made it great for the defenders so the only way to get them out was a massive weight of fire) at pocket i had six tommy gun mags, and never used more than four without joining a comrade to cover me while i re-filled them, didnt have to re-gen supply once.

I agree wholeheartedly.

I dislike regens for several reasons.

1) Attrition becomes pointless, you may as well wait til 10 minutes until the end of the game and then just launch a mass assault.

2) Cohesion goes out the window as Nige says.

3) Tactical surprise and any attempt at stealth lasts about five minutes, for example if you pull off the worlds best stealthy outflanking move then as soon as the guys you took out on the way regen they come looking for you - usually wiht a stack of mates - so all that sneaking to get ot the hq was for nothing. With the best players and the best will in the world who *dont * tell their mates where you are they subconsciously know and only an idiot is going to ignore you're there and lose the game for the sake of roleplay.

4) Its exhausting, you spend more time and travel a a greater distance trudging back and forth and less time playing, you dont invest as much energy in crawling or assaulting when in the game cos you're too tired.

Dont get me wrong i think regen has its place at times (human wave assaults in vietnam games with the attackers being seemingly unstoppable) and can create tension.

For me a good days play is half and half. Half a day in 'hit, medic & out' scenarios and then a long re-gen scenario or 're-gen vs finite banadges in defence' to finish off.

The nature of full-day CiA games require some sort of notional CP that can be used as regen. I'm not sure what alternative there would be to get people back into a game.

Moving regens towards, or away from, an objective is also very useful for adjusting the flow of a game if things are bogging down. Games don't just run themselves. You'd be surprised at how much constant adjustment is needed to keep the flow of a game going. The constant forced pulling back of German forces at In The Pocket is a perfect example of this.

I'd like to hear ideas about the alternatives for getting players back into the game on a multiple-objective, full-day game on a very large site. One has to allow a decent amount of game time during a game. CiA flat refuse to run a game that is constantly halted by infuriating whistle blowing or rolling objectives with too many pauses, or overly intrusive man-management.

I was writing a reply to this when the server went down. Now ive gotta do it all again!!

Anyways my idea was to have a dedecated "medical corp" that man the re gen/Aid Station's, and pushing people back into battle once there 5 mins of being in the afterlife is up.

Also have a team of medics with the players. that go to injured players when called for, heal them if they are injured and send the dead off to the aid station.

We had Doug as our only medic during Husky and he was running all over the place healing people. Also giving medics more lives, or even making them invincible but a consquence of it is that they cant carry a weapon. they cant be engaged within a certain distance.

I think with more medics the pace of the game wont be effected. I guess there would be a need to increase the team sizes a tad to accomodate them.

Also this could be a good way to get more non ww2 airsofters or even new fresh players into the game. say if you've not got the kit come along and be a medic. See if you enjoy it. much like you do with
partisans/rebels.

Or do it so that you open up bookings for

ALLIES, AXIS, MEDICS

Just thinking out loud anyways

I really liked the Squad Medic rules played at 'Pocket'.

I was writing a reply to this when the server went down. Now ive gotta do it all again!

Sorry, my fault - I should have turned the forum off before the upgrade but forgot (I was more concerned about my paying punters downtime )

There are few who would play as a medic, especially if they had to pay!

There are few who would play as a medic, especially if they had to pay!

true steve, but i dont mind doing it from time to time,for me its part of the experience.re-gen is a double edged sword, works on some levels not on others. but untill there is a better way, we dont really have an alternative.( this isnt in any way criticism, after spending 11 years as a paintball marshall i know the perfect game world doesnt exist)

There are few who would play as a medic, especially if they had to pay!

Yeah, that. You're getting into LARP territory, with people effectively having to operate as NPC's to keep the game running.

Which can work, as long as you give those people either a free game, or some other benefit in leiu of a fully active game. Not the best way to run a game though, as sites will want paying for people being on-site, regardless of whther they're 'playing' or not.

Id play as a medic, in a game. Like scaley said it brings a new dimension to the game.

Offering new comers the chance to play as a medic, could be a good thing. There's no pressure on them to go out and buy some gear straight away.

Could you offer a discount at all, as an alternative? (I say this lightly)

As far as ww2 airsoft goes I'm pretty inexperienced, having only played the InThePocket game but I'd like to add my views, some of which I think reflect those of many of the previous posters.

Firstly, what I don't want from a WW2 game is absolutely not what I might get on a traditional walk-on open-day: ie, who he spends most (on bbs, grenades, etc) wins!

I carry 8 of the AGM MP40 mags with abt 40 rounds in each, that's abt 320 before reloading. At ItP that was more than enough as I probably emptied only about 20 mags in total - about 800 rounds for the day. Reloading was from a speed loader and so was easily conducted in the field. Have total daily limits been considered? I pluck from thin air: say 1500 for a SMG, 10000 for an LMG, 750 for a rifle/sniper. Carrying a specified amount of ammo on the person prevents the need to visit a regen to replenish (ie, get themselves killed so as to go for a wander to reload) but the realism of outtages can still occur as lo-caps (or hi-caps restricted to use as lo-caps) have to be refilled while under fire (or when a unit regroups). Perhaps the ammo allocation could be issued as part of the game fee, with restrictions on what people can bring along for themselves?

I'm not keen on regen points for 2 other reasons: as I think Gadge said, people getting up and wondering about destroys the sense of immersion, and the positioning of a regen can favour one side over the other (defenders seem to benefit by being closer to theirs). As McV I think wrote, the medic system at ItP worked well (but bigger bandages please! ) and kept the game flowing. We don't have the numbers to properly recreate eg an assault on a small defended postion: the 10 or so of us Brits at ItP would have required at least a full platoon of approx 30 in real life, with LMG and mortar support. So with the losses which will be incurred in our scenarios I think there has to be some sort of regen capability to keep the game moving but this should be by the medic rather than by way of the killed wandering back to a point. This approach requires a decent supply of medics (as has already been suggested). Personally, I think medics should be especially designated and comprise volunteers, possibly even quasi-marshals, who cannot be killed (which is at odds with reality but a small compromise to keep the action flowing). Maybe medics should get a discounted or free game?

Back to the Brit experience at ItP, our tactics were disadvantaged by an absence of LMGs. An assault on a defended position without fire support is probably dooooooomed to failure. What can be done to encourage more LMGs? Maybe a daily total ammo allocation which favours LMGs (see above) would motivate those who are so inclined? Especially if the LMG ammo allocation were included in the game fee. Assuming the same ticket price, this would mean riflemen effectively subsidising LMG teams BUT it's actually in the riflemens' interests to do so, as having LMG support will massively add to their game experience.

Grenades and smokes. The Brits lacked them at ItP. Why? For my part, I didn't want the extra expense. But realism demands their use by all units rather than by indiviuals who are prepared to pay for them. Much like ammo supply, why not make the provision of a grenade or smoke as part of the ticket price? Some individuals might keep them to themselves (bad?), some teams might reallocate them amongst their members for optimum usage (good!).

My last point relates to teamwork. The comment has already been made on other threads as to how well the Brit contingent at ItP gelled together and I think game rules could be devised to encourage this. Obviously a far off regen point artifically breaks up the unit, and so that's another reason why I don't like regen points! One thing that might bring units together and keep them together is a mutual dependance on each other for ammo supplies (a bit like in real life). Ditto for fire support (especially if the riflemen have effectively subsidised the LMG groups bbs!) and grenades/smokes. If a unit keeps together then as the game-day progresses it will to some extent learn to work as a team.*

I might be completely out of place, in which case I apologise. Though I would add that ItP was the best airsoft (and re-enactment) experience I've had so none of the foregoing should be taken as criticism, more as a ponder for possible improvement.

BTW, I started typing this ages ago and so by the time it appears it'll proably be out of date! If so, sorry

Steve

*I once did a modern FIBUA training day. Morning was excellent with peeps allocated to teams who practised tactics, tactics, tactics. All good. After lunch the battle started and the teams broke up and the morning's tactical groupings were lost. Descent into something more akin to an individual blatfest. Ho hum.