Oi! 34th....and other site operators.

letting martin reply to this first as i need to take time before i reply but as this is at the organisers maybe it should have been posted in the organisers section ? or a pm ? rather than a sticky in General ..

still too angry but , maybe you mean posts like in the photos below , and we have had ones on the fireball page , 34th page , that one is from the fireball ww2 page , the other from our website linking to here , and then in the magazine article as well-- attachment is not available ---- attachment is not available ---- attachment is not available --

We always mention this site to any one interested in WW2 as it has kit guides , games lists and so much information , and i have no doubt other organisers do as well though i suspect this is targeted just at us,

now this is not just about this post but a few that have been hinting this way over the last couple of weeks , just out of interest what do you think our games are like , do you think there is no effort put in its just 30 a side run around like mad and shoot as many bbs as you can ?

If so then you guys are very wrong , i not used 300 rounds in the last 2 games in fact i have used less bbs in our last 2 games than any other ww2 game i have been to, now i not saying our games are for everyone but like any organiser you run the game type you want to play, I don't claim they are great , i have enjoyed them and i hope others have as well, we put a lot effort in folks having a good time , maybe they wont feel they were in WW2 for the entire day they were here but i hope they all had a good time.

I dont know why all the red squirrel / grey squirrel , us/them , veteran/newbie etc keeps coming up , none of it is helping,

not every game is for everyone , not everyone can afford to play all the games, myself i trying to do a few extra games which are a little different when i can, would have liked to do messina but it just was not possible and i sent lipton a pm explaining that as did not want him to feel we were snubbing his game at all. I am buying a complete new loadout for the sept game, but i am close to saying fuck it all as i am getting fed up of the underhand comments made towards us as we dont conform with certain folks idea of a good time, anyway mini rant over lol

to make it all better

Not sure why you're angry...

All that stuff is great, and I think it's fair to say that few people here knew about those links and pointers, so that's great!

The only reason I highlighted you guys is because you've got a game in August full of people who aren't on these forums, or booked in any other games. So despite your pointers to this place, it's not translating to other areas.

I posted publicly, and stickied it, because this really is the last chance. Groups like Doughboys, CiA and possibly Gunman won't continue to bang their head against the wall and run events that get cancelled.

Last chance folks. We need converts. We need them on here and booking into games NOW.

well going on the august list, most of the names on there are on here , but for example a few of the 34th who come on there pc once in a blue moon/or dont have a pc are not , the last german zug i think a couple are but they mainly deal through stut like the 34th do through me/tin/cuff etc

pretty sure most of the gerries are on here , there is a yank who may not be but i have never met him so cant say for sure

as i said organisers run games they like to play etc (guman is a business so a tad different)

but just because that person wants to play that sort of game does not mean everyone else does, we can't force folks to attend games and more we badger folks more they will think fuck it , dont get me wrong i all for every type of games been run - larpy , sit in a field what ever, but its still not going to be everyone's cup of tea, now it maybe the game , site , date etc but if folks like the idea / style etc they will book if they dont they wont , yes all for folks trying new stuff , but as i can only speak for me as soon as it gets very larpy i know thats not me, i love joshs games, and i know josh loves his larp but ww2 proper larp is not for me, now different example a low ammo rifle game with sneaking around to get that good 1 shot and doing orders yes i can go for that.

But also i only have a certain budget and a lot less than most so i can't do everything or afford to pay large sums for the 1 day i can play, so sometimes i may have to miss a game etc

but anyway you can see i not angry any more as there were dancing smiley faces

I am all for trying to recruit new folks , in fact we tried to get a stand at the upcoming airsoft expo just to promote ww2 airsoft as a whole, but they just changed their mind and now we can only get if we pay a few £100s ,

Anything we do to promote ww2 has this page at the centre, as this is the centre of WW2 airsoft , its not us , gunman cia etc its this page, why i include this web address on any articles i do rather than say the fireball one

but lastly i don't think bashing folks for not coming to all games etc will help in the long run , it may have good intentions but i suspect will do more harm (not referring to these posts just generally) I dont want any of these groups to stop etc but and i don't have the answer to get folks to come....

For what it is worth, we do "push our regulars this way".

Chris and the guys have been instrumental in pushing WW2 games in our area so much so that die hard 'modern softers' like me have become involved. That said it is still a niche genre. Most 'softers love their modern gear and do not want to get involved in this. Fireball is one of many Midlands sites but probably the only one that is actively hosting, promoting and attending WW2 games. (We were once the only midlands site but there must be close to ten within spitting distance now)

We also do our damnedest to support 'other WW2 games' and in fact, speaking personally I have attended three 'away games' in the last 12 months and am booked into the Copenhagen game. These total more 'away games' than I have attended in the last 6 or 7 years! We have also been promoting WW2 airsoft through Chris writing articles for the airsoft magazines and have been actively promoting WW2 on U-tube, Facebook and the Fireball website! (How many others can say the same?)

Our WW2 games are in addition to our running our regular skirmish games too. Our diaries are fully booked!

Chris has formed a team (the 34th) that numbers almost 30 players. We play mainly US GI but many of us are happy to go German to try and encourage a balanced field. (I have embraced the inner Gerry) We all know each other and socialise outside of airsoft events from time to time.

One thing that we have in common is our inability to commit to weekend events. Work/Family etc all conspire against most of us attending weekend games. We also come from a skirmish background, we like shooting folks. So some of the more immersive games are not to our taste. Give 'em a try? Of course, hence going to Copenhagen later in the year.

We started hosting games ourselves when there seemed to be a bit of a lull in the WW2 diary. We ran games the way we like 'em. A bit shooty, a bit sneaky, a bit of non combat activity and a bit of fun. German chocolate or Hershey bars as won objectives and of course Haribo! (Haribo was in WW2 'onest Guv) We were extremely worried that what we were doing would not be enjoyed by the more experienced WW2 player but it would seem that those that come along all have a great day.

Being midlands based helps of course as we are right in the middle of the country and are not far from the motorway network.

I agree with Chris in that all this squirrel shit is not helping. I have no idea if I am a grey squirrel or a red one.

We do restrict weapons to WW2 and we do like folks to look the part, but we don't frown upon the guy in late war kit when we are playing an early war game or the Marine when we are all GI's. (yes Josh, I am thinking of you! (but damn, the look is cool!)) Perhaps this also helps and influences a players decision to attend. (Having spent a small fortune putting a Gerbirgsjager loadout together only to find that I cant attend a game in that kit because "they weren't actually at that battle" would certainly stop me even considering going. I simply don't have the funds to buy new kit in order to attend one game.)

Why games are or are not being attended will be due to a multitude of reasons but I would suggest that popular games, such as the recent games I have attended run by Josh are well attended because they offer what players want and enjoy.

If a game does not get the bookings required, perhaps the organiser should look at what they are offering and asking of players. Cost, distance to travel, game style, date, kit requirements/limitations etc. something must be wrong or at the very least not what the majority of players are looking for.

Also, how do they go about promoting the event? Have they friended any of the players or groups in social media? I am damned sure that Chris has, and is not adverse to dropping folks a msg or text to invite them personally to a game rather than relying on them browsing the interweb. (In fact he ran a private invitation game recently for a group of Gerries just because they were unable to attend one of our 'published games!!!)

I don't think that WW2 Airsoft is in trouble. Far from it. I actually think it is getting stronger. I do think that some people want their experience to be less airsoft and more re-enactment biased. Perhaps this may explain why some games are less popular than others?

Heh, you are defining red/grey squirrel yourself pretty well Tin! Of course, there isn't a divide as such, more shades of colour, but the differences between the extremes are marked. Yes, it would be very easy to put on very big 'popular' games, but that isn't what some folks want to devote their time and energy to.

And it would be a complete mistake to characterise cancelled games as being specialist, niche games - Josh has cancelled more game than anybody, AGS' cancelled games would have appealed to most, and the June game should have appealed to many.

I'd agree that WW2 airsoft as a whole isn't in 'trouble' and and what difficulties there are are many-fold - but some are so concerned there is little for them that they have solicited an action group (and they don't want may appeal games. And this isn't good. Ultimately, there are too many games for too few players. So we either cut the number of games or boost the number of players. Ultimately, those playing 'popular' low kit expectation/shooty games will, in time if the are still interested, want 'something more'. And so they cycle continues!

I don't think that WW2 Airsoft is in trouble. Far from it. I actually think it is getting stronger.

Well so far attedees at games this year:
ROTT 55
Foy 61
Spilamberto 38
San Marino 24

So thats 178 times people have got of their ass and attended a game, not to shoddy as its only May. Yet unfortunately 2 games have cancelled as well and these numbers will be little consolation to them after all the hard work they have put in. So crisis no, but not all well.

I dont think anyone who has attended 34th games can doubt that the effort is put in organising their games as well as promoting WW2 Airsoft generally. Keep it up lads

I don't think that WW2 Airsoft is in trouble. Far from it. I actually think it is getting stronger.

Well so far attedees at games this year:

San Marino 24

I dont think anyone who has attended 34th games can doubt that the effort is put in organising their games as well as promoting WW2 Airsoft generally. Keep it up lads

There were 52 at San Marino most came last minute and paid on the day. The extras wern`t all Newbies there were many Veterans among them and it certainly was NOT a Skirmish in SILLY kit. The standard of kit was extremely good. with Veterans lending guns and uniforms.

What this type of event showed was that if supported by Veterans you will encourage people to dip their toe in the water and that is the future. I only saw 2 people in any form of look a like kit and only 2 modern guns scrimmed up. At the evening drinks these 2 people are now kitting out in correct kit and cannot wait to get their hands on WW2 guns.

and it certainly was NOT a Skirmish in SILLY kit. The standard of kit was extremely good. with Veterans lending guns and uniforms.

I think you may misunderstand the definition of 'silly' people use in the context of SiSK. It doesn't mean 'crap kit', it just means 'ww2 kit'. We ALL wear silly kit, that's the entire point of ww2 airsoft. It's anachronistic, usually awkward and generally outdated. The emphasis in using the term SiSK is the first S.

Not saying 34th games are at all, but if a game is just a generic skirmish you can get any saturday up and down the country, but it happens to be in ww2 kit, it's a SiSK.

Anyway, that's a totally off-topic aside, just wanted to clarify.

But am I a red squirrel or a grey one? I still don't know.

I haven't researched each cancelled game, so don't know what they were offering. I don't think I stated that cancelled games were 'niche games' but that WW2 games are a niche genre in general.

For me, with our own weekend game (not WW2) looming, holidays, overseas work and kids summer hols about to happen, I simply can't attend any additional games at the moment. I can't even get to our own games or work days

I think you hit the nail on the head. Not enough players pure and simple. The more players there are, the more there will be that like each game style and be able to attend.

We are doing our best to encourage new players into WW2 and I may even change my mind on us attending the airsoft show....

I dont think anyone who has attended 34th games can doubt that the effort is put in organising their games as well as promoting WW2 Airsoft generally. Keep it up lads

This. They book up for a reason. Not only are the 34th lads collectively first rate blokes, very friendly and helpful, but Chris organises superb games. The kit standard is brilliant and the mission system is first rate; always varied styles of play, lots to do and not simply a blat fest. There's a reason a lot of us southerners would rather travel three hours up there for a game than somewhere half the distance.

I dont think anyone who has attended 34th games can doubt that the effort is put in organising their games as well as promoting WW2 Airsoft generally. Keep it up lads

This. They book up for a reason. Not only are the 34th lads collectively first rate blokes, very friendly and helpful, but Chris organises superb games. The kit standard is brilliant and the mission system is first rate; always varied styles of play, lots to do and not simply a blat fest. There's a reason a lot of us southerners would rather travel three hours up there for a game than somewhere half the distance.

I second that .

and it certainly was NOT a Skirmish in SILLY kit. The standard of kit was extremely good. with Veterans lending guns and uniforms.

I think you may misunderstand the definition of 'silly' people use in the context of SiSK. It doesn't mean 'crap kit', it just means 'ww2 kit'. We ALL wear silly kit, that's the entire point of ww2 airsoft. It's anachronistic, usually awkward and generally outdated. The emphasis in using the term SiSK is the first S.

Not saying 34th games are at all, but if a game is just a generic skirmish you can get any saturday up and down the country, but it happens to be in ww2 kit, it's a SiSK.

Anyway, that's a totally off-topic aside, just wanted to clarify.

No I don`t think it is off topic
If you look at some posts it is an underlying way for people to label a game as introductory, Blatfest, non conforming, not "The Experience" if this is not the case why don`t they apply this term to ALL events?? If it applies to All why bother use the phrase??

We are doing our best to encourage new players into WW2 and I may even change my mind on us attending the airsoft show....

maybe not we booked into the rifles game looooooooool

I've only been 'on the scene' less than a year but i will throw my hat in the ring! My mate Rich had been pushing me to give Airsoft a crack for some time so i eventually caved in. i had visions of me resembling an Action Hero from Strikeback tooled with all the modern gizmo's 'as seen on T.V'. Then he told me i was going as a WW2 G.I, I honestly felt a little deflated but thought why not...BEST CHOICE I EVER MADE!
I love all of it. Limited ammo, kitting up in uniforms from my childhood War film fantasies (even though i still can't get Gaiters on in under ten minutes), The tension of moving forward wondering if you are about to get Bumped and the cathartic release of finding out that my worries were correct.
The WW2 community has never been anything but supportive to it's own, i've seen people lend their beloved weapons out to people they didn't even know the name of without a qualm and welcome a lone player into their squad with open arms.
I respect the effort behind the scenes that people put in to ensure the day goes well not to mention the props they build in their spare time. (And Golf Widows think they have it bad!)
i know that most of the General Airsofters love there Fully auto, laser sighted modern weapons and fair play to them, it's their choice and their money same as it's ours to croon over our Bolt action and semi auto rifles.
Luckily i'm single so can do what i want when i want and have no children.
But back on topic...I don't think any game i've been to hasn't had less effort spent on it than the others, different areas have different holidays, free windows etc. It will be difficult to organise a roster incorporating every factor and this squirrel schism confuses me, grey squirrels aggressively take from the others and i don't see any Site/organiser wanting to do that, but like i have said, i am a newbie so could be wrong...

LOL.

ah well...

No I don`t think it is off topic
If you look at some posts it is an underlying way for people to label a game as introductory, Blatfest, non conforming, not "The Experience" if this is not the case why don`t they apply this term to ALL events?? If it applies to All why bother use the phrase??

Sorry, what I meant was we all wear silly kit, but not all of us are looking for 'skirmishes'. If its effectively just red team vs blue blue in the woods, winner takes all, but given a ww2 battle name to 'make' it a ww2 game, then it's a SiSK. Same goes for unlimited ammo (though that happens rarely now).