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Moss
 Moss
(@moss)
Prominent Member

There's plenty of cheap WW2 guns available, much more than there were when this all started and, the used market is also very healthy. Also, I don't buy into the idea of the kit being expensive, especially when compared with going for an ultra modern loadout. The games are also generally much cheaper than the modern themed alternatives. Players really never have had it so good in terms of availability, choice and price of WW2 kit and weapons, it's a pity that so many end up just collecting the bloody things, instead of using them.

I did mean that for someone just starting out airsoft, prices can seem rather daunting. Mind a lot of the people I've asked to join think they have to get it all in one go, despite what I tell them. I must admit I am guilty of the kit hoarding thing, I have a whole original U.S Vietnam kit in my wardrobe along with an M-16. Will I get rid of my 'Nam kit? Nope probably not. I still want to keep it for the eventuality that I do go to a 'Nam game. But WW2 just appeals to me more.

In terms of kit, it is expensive if your not fully into the hobby/have other commitments. This is my only hobby so I like to spend lots of time looking on eBay and all over the interwebs for cheap/bargain kit. But I can see how the price of everything would get a bit much if you had other stuff to do. Maybe the forum would benefit from some budget uniform guides for people who just want to pop in and out of the hobby and not spend too much on kit?

I do appreciate the fact that there was bugger all guns when WW2 airsoft kicked off but the point I was trying to make (on speculation I wasn't that clear about it) is that in terms of readily available cheap and reliable guns, we're lacking in rifles (hopefully this new Tanaka springer gets cloned). I'd also like to add that the used gun market isn't helpful for new/young Airsofters as the VCRA gets in the way there, and is another thing that is out of our control. But in terms of kit the used market is very helpful as buying helmets on eBay seems to just be a "who can bid the most rediculous, way over average amount" competition. I have a friend who turned his nose up at using 2nd hand kit mind , but for most peeps it's very helpful. Anyway I can see what people mean by "getting hooked by your first game" as the Crete game was ones of the most exciting things I have ever done and I can't wait to get to the next one.

Maybe the hobby is just going through a slow/sleepy period, it could get jump started again by the 70th D-Day anniversary. You never know...
Dejan.

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Posted : 13/06/2013 5:15 am
Chomley-Warner
(@admin-infinity)
Illustrious Member Admin

Maybe the hobby is just going through a slow/sleepy period, it could get jump started again by the 70th D-Day anniversary. You never know...
Dejan.

Certainly an opportunity not to be missed.

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Posted : 13/06/2013 7:53 am
MartinR
(@martinr)
Famed Member

the spectacle of 50+ players per side

I rather tend to view Joshs big November games as my big annual 'company per side' outing. Certainly a very different experience to the smaller section/platoon sized ones.

I hope there is another one planned for this year.

Cheers
Martin

"Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" Helmuth von Moltke
Toys: AGM MP40, Cyma M1A1, TM M14/G43/SVT40, TM VSR/K98, SnS No. 4, ASG Sten, Ppsh.

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Posted : 13/06/2013 8:04 am
Boshman
(@boshman)
Noble Member

the spectacle of 50+ players per side

I rather tend to view Joshs big November games as my big annual 'company per side' outing. Certainly a very different experience to the smaller section/platoon sized ones.

I hope there is another one planned for this year.

Cheers
Martin

Even at Josh's big games, (the last one was epic btw) the actual engagements do tend to be only section sized anyway as the players nearly always get split down into smaller squads with seperate areas of operation and objectives and are never fighting as a single large unit.

The only game I can personally recall where there was a full Platoon sized engagement was at Sevastopol where we had 30 Germans attacking a single position with 25 Russians.

“I wanted to come to the Volga at a specific location at a specific city. By chance it carries the name of Stalin himself. So don’t think I marched there for this reason – it could carry another name – but because there is a very important goal... this goal I wanted to take – and you know – we are very modest, we have it already."
Adolf Hitler, November 1942

"Comrades, Red Army men, commanders and political workers, men and women guerrillas! It is on your perseverance, staunchness, fighting skill and readiness to discharge your duty to the country that the defeat of the German-fascist army and the liberation of the Soviet land from the Hitlerite invaders depend! We can and must clear the Soviet land of Hitlerite vermin."
Joseph Stalin, November 1942

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Posted : 13/06/2013 9:19 am
Gadge
(@gadge)
Illustrious Member

indeed, even the biggest ones we've run we try and task each platoon (usually two per side) with independent objectives to get the ost play out of the site,stop bottlenecks and provide variety as platoon 'a' from the allies can then clash with a variety of axis groups etc rather than just headbutting against a mob of 30 germans all day.

Having restricted radios to one per platoon tends to mean that sections dont wander off too much as they lose effectiveness once they are out of the loop with regards to where people need to be.

The problem with a huge joint organiser game, and its been suggested dozens of times is that both players bases and organiseres all want quite different things.

Those who want 'numbers' dont want to water down the 'detail' but without relaxing certain criteria (allowed units, allowed kits, depth of rules) etc you wont get 'everyone' in. Equally and more dissapointingly there are still a few people with very deep grudges still against others in the scene (for example a guy i knew who no longer plays wouldnt go to any events run by 'person x' or if 'group y' were going so he basically cut himself out of the scene - daft but it happens).

You've then got to come up with a good plan that all the organisers want to do and wil work , agree on a battle that isnt just 'd-day' again that big and involving etc. it's hard enough sometimes to get an agreement on the game you want to run and the site you want to use when you're all good mates, on the same organising body and have the same ethos at times ( with PBI we had some massive rows at times about the direction/nature of the game etc) and if you then add in up to 15 or so extra guys who you've all got to come to an accord with it's not easy.

The only 'quick fix' is a mass, lowest common denominator 'NWE 44' game with very simple rules, very lax 'any unit' standards on a huge woodland site that someone can get cheap or for free - but does anyone want that?




"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."

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Posted : 13/06/2013 9:35 am
Moss
 Moss
(@moss)
Prominent Member

The only 'quick fix' is a mass, lowest common denominator 'NWE 44' game with very simple rules, very lax 'any unit' standards on a huge woodland site that someone can get cheap or for free - but does anyone want that?

If its what's needed to breathe new life into the hobby shouldn't we all just grin and bear it? We need to get more people interested before the game can advance any further.

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Posted : 13/06/2013 9:58 am
(@wladek)
Famed Member

The only 'quick fix' is a mass, lowest common denominator 'NWE 44' game with very simple rules, very lax 'any unit' standards on a huge woodland site that someone can get cheap or for free - but does anyone want that?

If its what's needed to breathe new life into the hobby shouldn't we all just grin and bear it? We need to get more people interested before the game can advance any further.

We already have it. they are fine, I have enjoyed them too.

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Posted : 13/06/2013 10:08 am
(@pvtjohnny)
Reputable Member

I LOVE WW2 AIRSOFT, ME! The amount of reaction to topics is bewildering at times. But at least it shows people care
I think we are all apt to "fall into" certain game types or preferred organisers. I, for one know I have and perhaps I need to widen my horizons a bit. When I posted up about a joint game it was more about sharing the work load/risk as much about game size. And I agree with Martin, I too see Josh's epic end of year battle weekend as my big bash (an excellent they are too)!
I've only EVER attended one game which I thought was terrible, the rest have given me some fantastic memories and experiences. The tension of smaller CIA games, the balls out epics that are Gunman games to the AGS games which gave me one of the most visually impressive sights I think I'll ever see (I was one of the 25 Russians facing the 30 man attack through plumes of smoke......awesome). Lets chill, get some perspective and acknowledge we have a really great hobby with lots of variation. Perhaps we as "customers" need to take stock of our own reservations and support, in numbers the games we have.
We might even consider that any newbe reading these forums may be put off from all the complaining, moaning and desire to change everything (yes, I know I've been as guilty as anyone)
I'm making a resolution to get to as many games as I can, use as much kit as possible and to dump some of my preconceptions about organisers. AMEN!



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Posted : 13/06/2013 3:10 pm
Moss
 Moss
(@moss)
Prominent Member

There should be a "like" button!

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Posted : 13/06/2013 3:20 pm
(@prideofengland)
Noble Member

Like (well ok its spam but looks a bit like a button )

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Posted : 13/06/2013 5:28 pm
Chomley-Warner
(@admin-infinity)
Illustrious Member Admin

We might even consider that any newbe reading these forums may be put off from all the complaining, moaning and desire to change everything

Don't worry, they only read the Weapons and For Sale sections...

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Posted : 13/06/2013 7:21 pm
Oligoscenic
(@oligoscenic)
Estimable Member

We might even consider that any newbe reading these forums may be put off from all the complaining, moaning and desire to change everything

Don't worry, they only read the Weapons and For Sale sections...

Cheeky.......

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Posted : 13/06/2013 9:06 pm
Universal Gunner
(@universal-gunner)
Reputable Member

I LOVE WW2 AIRSOFT, ME! The amount of reaction to topics is bewildering at times. But at least it shows people care
I think we are all apt to "fall into" certain game types or preferred organisers. I, for one know I have and perhaps I need to widen my horizons a bit. When I posted up about a joint game it was more about sharing the work load/risk as much about game size. And I agree with Martin, I too see Josh's epic end of year battle weekend as my big bash (an excellent they are too)!
I've only EVER attended one game which I thought was terrible, the rest have given me some fantastic memories and experiences. The tension of smaller CIA games, the balls out epics that are Gunman games to the AGS games which gave me one of the most visually impressive sights I think I'll ever see (I was one of the 25 Russians facing the 30 man attack through plumes of smoke......awesome). Lets chill, get some perspective and acknowledge we have a really great hobby with lots of variation. Perhaps we as "customers" need to take stock of our own reservations and support, in numbers the games we have.
We might even consider that any newbe reading these forums may be put off from all the complaining, moaning and desire to change everything (yes, I know I've been as guilty as anyone)
I'm making a resolution to get to as many games as I can, use as much kit as possible and to dump some of my preconceptions about organisers. AMEN!

Oh, now I can moan with the best of them but Johnny has hit the nail on the head.

Sometimes I think WW2 airsoft can fail because the anticipation could be better than the event. You get all the gear and then think you are going to be in the first 20 minutes of Saving Private Ryan and will end up being the hero taking out the bunker. It will NEVER be like that. We won't die like all those poor souls on Omaha, we will never face that horror. What we have to do is put ourselves in the mind of the most scared person on those beaches (for example), realise how ineffective our weapons are compared to the onslaught of what is being directed at us, consider that every time we are hit that could well be the end of everything we love and appreciate that we are "playing" with people who have similar motivations. For me WW2 Airsoft is not about moving to the next level, proving how much you've mastered this one, it is about realising that there are no levels, no real heroes. We can all be brave when it is 6mm of plastic coming at us it is about looking past that.

But that is personal, I sincerely believe that you get out of this what you put into it. Putting the kit on, no matter how accurate, won't make it better other than giving you the smallest inkling as to how bloody useless most of it is or at least how minimalist life was back then. It is all about mindset. You can tweak your weapons as much as you like it will never be as accurate or have the range of a 303, Garand or K98, but neither will it have the ferocious kick (affecting aim) and nor will you (generally) have the massive ammo restrictions. I have never seen WW2 airsoft as about being a hero. 50% of it, like the terror of real war, is about anticipation - that is why the "air raid" at Crete was so good - it set the mood. At Hauptmann Horn (my first game) seeing the FJ in the distance through the trees is an experience I won't forget, or as Johnny said the Germans approaching at Sevastopol.

It is what you make of it, we can moan about events, organisers and other players but ultimately it is down to us to get what we want out of it, if you don't come with and maintain the attitude that this is WW2 airsoft then you will be disappointed. I try to attend all the events I can because as Johnny so succinctly says " I LOVE WW2 AIRSOFT, ME!" I want more events and I want more players. I want the organisers to continue what they're doing and not give up. Yes some events may be better than others and there could be a variety of reasons for that - scenario, organisers and other players but I am far from thinking that one experience where I feel I only got 50% (c£30) value of the money I spent means that I should therefore not attend the next one and leave 2000% (£1,200) worth of kit standing in the wardrobe. The organisers do try and disagreeing with Johnny slightly I don't think there is any event I haven't been able to look back on with some positive thoughts, and believe me the glass is always half empty as far as I'm concerned!

Dejan is right, it can be ridiculously expensive if you take it seriously. The turnout at Crete was fantastic. I would hate to think all that kit only got used once. And I think that can be the problem - I am prepared to admit that each event gives me the excuse to buy more kit. It is not the event's cost that makes things so expensive for me it is the other costs. The cancelled Operation Chariot cost me over £200 (two bergens - don't ask - badges, lanyards, commando knives etc) before counting all the books that I bought about it. I will not add the cost of my visit to Saint Nazaire which was after the event.

And there I think there can be a problem it is ridiculous to think that D-Day has been done, Arnhem has been done and therefore we must come up with another scenario. It is a false pride amongst organisers and it alienates people, makes them think either that their knowledge or interests are being looked down on or that their kit will never be enough, I can understand the need for variety, the desire not to be blinkered to NWE or the main events but it makes it very difficult or possibly appear very difficult for new people to enter the hobby or to consider it affordable. Last year I played seven games one as Russian, two as airborne (one Polish - new beret badges), three as US and one as Brit RE. On reflection that is a ridiculous amount of kit and money for the experience. I can only sleep at night if I convince myself that all this gear will be used again. There is a D Day ribbon I see but with the 70th anniversary coming up does that mean that there can be no D Day event? Let's face it however fantastic an airsoft event was in the past it in no way reflected the actual event and in no way can that event in history can be seen as having been adequately covered. I'm not suggesting that the same scenarios be acted over and over again but may be there is a place for an annual D-Day, Arnhem or Anzio or even El Alamein. The big names that "newbies" recognise and know immediately that their kit may be acceptable.

But I have rambled on too long. All I can do is echo and encourage everyone to do as Johnny: "I'm making a resolution to get to as many games as I can, use as much kit as possible and to dump some of my preconceptions about organisers."

Cheers

Charlie

I have a small skewer hidden in the collar of my jumping jacket, and a razorblade in my gaiter, as well as my knife.

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Posted : 14/06/2013 1:40 am
Chomley-Warner
(@admin-infinity)
Illustrious Member Admin

Excellent pair of enlightened and enlightening essays from Johnny and Charlie.

As can be seen from my signature I have been to a lot of games run by every organiser. I have only been to one game that can be described as 'poor' but I still had an entertaining weekend and I remember it to this day. It's part of what I was alluding to in another thread - all sorts of activities one might do at a weekend cost an awful lot and have poor value for money and worse, are instantly forgotten. I have happy memories of all WW2 airsoft events, long may it continue. (And I'm sneaking off to another tomorrow - as a Father's Day present to myself )

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Posted : 14/06/2013 6:41 am
(@prideofengland)
Noble Member

All I can do is echo and encourage everyone to do as Johnny: "I'm making a resolution to get to as many games as I can, use as much kit as possible and to dump some of my preconceptions about organisers."

Could it be that pvtjohnny has started a new revolution, perhaps an Airsoft Spring(or should that be summer)? Lets hope more of us sign up to this

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Posted : 14/06/2013 8:01 am
 Yith
(@yith)
Illustrious Member

Well said Charlie and Johnny...

Very glad to hear some 100% positive posts for once. They're morale boosting to us all and that's what we need to get us off our sofas and onto the battlefield.

I'm looking forward loads to the Chambois event at the weekend. Looking at the list of players attending, we're almost all old hands though. Just a few new faces.

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Posted : 14/06/2013 9:00 am
HeadShot
(@headshot)
Illustrious Member

All I can do is echo and encourage everyone to do as Johnny: "I'm making a resolution to get to as many games as I can, use as much kit as possible and to dump some of my preconceptions about organisers."

Could it be that pvtjohnny has started a new revolution, perhaps an Airsoft Spring(or should that be summer)? Lets hope more of us sign up to this

The Airsoft Spring:



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Posted : 14/06/2013 4:40 pm
(@gj-nord)
Eminent Member

are there any games that take place north of the 54th parallel?

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Posted : 15/08/2013 12:57 pm
Inkall
(@inkall)
Trusted Member

are there any games that take place north of the 54th parallel?

Well The Hill in Dundee certainly used to do some WW2 stuff on occasion, don't know if that is still the case though.

Being up in the north of the arse end of nowhere I've not even begun considering actually getting to properly organised WW2 games yet. Heck as things stand I'm only sitting at 1 WW2 era gun and no kit so yeah bit of a ways off but would be nice to know what's out there in Scotland and North England.

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Posted : 15/08/2013 3:01 pm
Nurglitch
(@nurglitch)
Reputable Member

http://playersofwar.wix.com/players-of-war# !

Kitwhore files: S&S Lee Enfield No. 4, AGM Sten Mk. II, Tanaka Kar 98k, WE Luger P08
Wishlist: AGM Stg44, possible LE No. 4 gas project

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Posted : 15/08/2013 3:34 pm
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