What would you like to see at an event??

a game with civilians has to be a resistance game really, and as the first law of resistance is 'don't start a proper firefight' they would only work in a specific scenario for them. Otherwise known as 'I need my damn urban site' lol

I don't mean partisans, I mean actual civilians. Not heavily armed, maybe the odd pistol or shotgun here and there.

But think about it.

why would they be there

If the 9th ss division and the british armoured corp were figthing in your street and pretty much raising the area to the ground you'd flee. Again thats what refugees are, anyone who isnt retarded leaves the site of an impending battles, for a start houses are also usually requisitioned to billet armies in the area so you *have* to move.

And why would you be armed, carrying a weapon in occupied Europe was a death sentence if you were not part of the states police or armed forces as people would shoot you as a looter/criminal/partisan on site. Even in polite occupied france you needed a lot of paperwork to keep a shotgun legally if you were say a game keeper.

The vast majority of battles in WWII took part in areas totally devoid of 'civilians', as said they were moved voluntarily of forcibly to 'safer' areas or deported to work elsewhere or interned.

I dont think three or four people wandering around in grandad shirts and flat caps would add *anything* to a game unless it was a specific part of a story element in a very small high detail roleplay event.

The only place civilians look right is in 'occupied country' scenarios and then almost invariably they either become germans/brits in civvies within 30 minutes of the game starting as people are trigger happy (first arnhem game we ever did), or a royal pain in the arse and are distrusted by everyone and shot at the slightest provocation (lightning) or just really annoying if the rules say they can only be shot if carrying a weapon as people hide mgs behind walls, wait for someone to go past, pick it up, gun a player down then drop it and do the 'innocent joe' act even though every one knew they did it.

Honestly i think the civilian things works great in afghan games, vietnam games etc where the 'bad guys' hide in plain sight among the populace but in a WWII game i'd just be thinking 'wtf' if some guy is pretending to be the village baker while all hell breaks loose around his village

Pointless, sorry but it is. All the points made so far show that civilian/resistance/partisan end up as the third force irregardless of being armed lightly or heavily.
Props yes, excellent
Night games, point made by headshot is very valid.poncing around in the dark will lead eventually to someone getting hurt. And then suing the organiser. Some of the nam games do play into the dark using glosticks as hit markers but the last one I was at was a us fire base defence mission ( oh it was awesome BTW) but I was bloody glad I didn't move backward as the 12 foot drop would have come as a bit of a shock.
24 hour games, summer possibly yes. Winter come on, we did it in the forces, it was no fun then and again see night games.
Smaller games based on lesser known battles.. Guys it's airsoft,it's always going to be airsoft unless you can engineer one side win and one side loses.
So to conclude. Big games which are all inclusive so everyone gets a shot, light on the historical accuracy and heavy on firefights and mayhem.
AND
Smaller more tightly focused historically accurate games with stricter kit rules ect.
Oh wait!!

Bugger gadge got to it before me. Naughty gadge

I think if the scenario was set like Foxley (I imagine) was gonna be like the a few civilians that carry some info about the enemy, say info on enemy patrol route, timing, numbers ect

That did add a lot to oddballs and portas games at the tunnels, those radios pumping out the recordings reminded me a lot of the atmospheric horror computer games like silent hill
the only things i would propose would be more defensive positions like fox holes or trenches as sometimes when your defending positions a bush and or tree does not really cover it and am sure i have seen plans on one of the re enactor forums for flat pack pill boxes and the like.
secondly just a little one like if there are containers to be moved maybe have them a bit more weighted to not make them an easy carry, i know it was in a bridge too far but one man and a drop canister

Again see props.
Sound effects.. Something else which was at the last nam game. There was a radio set which was blasting out US transmissions. I followed the sound and found it, pity the VC did too. But it added so much.
Now piro, crow scarers, ect and any other area denial effects are also excellent. Difficult to do on hired sites but worth some consideration.

I think if the scenario was set like Foxley (I imagine) was gonna be like the a few civilians that carry some info about the enemy, say info on enemy patrol route, timing, numbers ect

That then boils down to crew, the paying player wants to use his/her own gear which they have lovingly created.
Role play/ Larp works only to the comedy dying in WW2, it's not story driven, it's action driven.
The quintessential WW2 game is German VS ........, its large, it's intense, it has a good number of players on both sides. Its immersive.

I didn't relise they had been used before, I was thinking more of having background/distance noise like the sound of battle in the distance or like your radio noise, mortars firing sound effect if say part of the game is looking to find and disable the mortars etc.

At the first CIA game we put a loud stereo system in the centre of the site near the firebase playing sound effects of backgorund shelling, aa guns, the odd plane droning over.... awesome as long as you were within about 20 metres of it, after that it was just drowned out by the sound of everyone shouting orders and 'hit'

For me loads of combatants, big site , lots of veichles and I am happy.

How ever I know that this doesnt all ways fit the scenario.

Been to most sites in the south of the UK, how ever finding a new site which no one knows is always a Gem!

Heh, second game, Arnhem (an urban site) had a very load sound system placed in the tower playing battle noise across the whole site - awesome and atmospheric. Then annoying - I was so glad when the batteries gave out! We've also use them at many games - Wotan & Die Glock (radio traffic, music, dogs barking, jack boots marching down corridors etc), Stukas dive bombing at Ariel, Wagner at Boryszyn, and many others. Those that managed to get to the Fuhrer's office at the last WW2 game would have heard his speeches blaring out on the radio! So sound systems have been used from the first to the last game - nothing new in that suggestion, I'm afraid!

May be your first to last games, not any of the games I've been to, I didn't know it had been used before hence my suggestion.

No problemo, it was a good suggestion and it works!

Generally, it is interesting to see that it is harder and harder to bring 'new' things to the genre - maybe that is why the game is becoming tighter in terms of rules and expectations of players. So that it has got to a point where new(ish) players think it has become elitist or overly restrictive (hence my feeling that there may well be a place for less restrictive games like there were seven years ago - not a backwards step, just a catering for different player's expectations).

BTW, civilians worked brilliantly at Arnhem, not turning to active resistance until after lunch, as planned. The reason this worked - one of the organising team was running the third Dutch 'side' and keeping their agenda focussed (weapon smuggling, recce etc). One of my favourite moments was on one of the many stop and searches, after checking his papers, I found a single bullet (white BB) in the pocket of a civilian. I demanded to know why he had it and where it had come from. He insisted it was just a peppermint and to prove it promptly swallowed it - pretty convincing and with the evidence gone all I could do was let him go.

I am slightly bemused at people who've never attended an event suggesting 'new' things that should be done which have been done since the first CiA event in 2006. Again, even our first event started with the US side filling sandbags and reinforcing their positions for the first hour or so.

Anyway, for me, I would like to see:

Working command structures with all players cooperating in this and following the given orders, no matter how wrong they sound. (ie: Players who are there to follow orders, not to twist things their way to achieve a victory.)
A very large (1000+ acre) woodland site with vehicles for some, but with the majority tabbing across the site with the possibility of being ambushed.
Living in the field with no modern equipment visible.
A 24hr scenario - though without 24hr gameplay for the above reasons. (ie You get up in the morning without a specific start time and carry on where you left off, leaving the possibility of being bumped by the enemy at dawn.
A wide scoped scenario with multiple objectives including scouting missions, ambushes and fixed targets.
Use of pyrotechnics within the scenario. (eg Destroying objectives)
Cooking on fires or period stoves (though not always possible depending on sites)
A proper HQ.

Most importantly:
No cheating or non-hit taking, no trying to 'win the game', no freelancers or lone wolves, proper fire and manoeuvre with no plinking at one another from behind trees just out of range, no face masks , no people breaking the No1 rule.

TBH, most of what I would like we did at Jedburgh, though I may be asking for too much in that last bit.

Westwood for the gothic line game was huge, not sure on the acreage but even then only a small part of it was used.
Lone wolfing is going to happen, sorry but it's a fact. Players new and old get cut off and they will try this.
How many people play WW2 airsoft and then look at how many post up here on topics like this. It boils back to the simple fact, the paying punter wants shooting, loads of blokes, and a bit of a social at the end.
What I want to see is tanks, not fake tanks, real ones, big buggers, I want to be in the big buggers leading the charge and mines and artillery AND before my flights of pure fantasy dump me back to earth, I'm never going to have that.
Look and this is pointed at the number of those who say I want cohesive squad units who follow the orders to achieve objective, just accept that there are those who will do this and there are those who won't.
I fully believe that at this time the present game are more than enough to satisfy the need of most players.
Yes period correct gear is fine but it not where many people are at. Guns and uniforms are the staple diet of the airsofter. Super accurate period kit is the province of the re enactor. Want to live in a fox hole eating fried shite and bully beef, sleeping under a 42 dated hankie.... Excellent, but most softers haven't got to that stage yet and many never will.
Balance is key. Aim to low and you get SISK, push to high and you get 4 blokes and tin of spam. And sometimes you just need plain old silly.
We take ourselves way to seriously.

I am slightly bemused at people who've never attended an event suggesting 'new' things that should be done which have been done since the first CiA event in 2006. Again, even our first event started with the US side filling sandbags and reinforcing their positions for the first hour or so.

Anyway, for me, I would like to see:

Working command structures with all players cooperating in this and following the given orders, no matter how wrong they sound. (ie: Players who are there to follow orders, not to twist things their way to achieve a victory.)
A very large (1000+ acre) woodland site with vehicles for some, but with the majority tabbing across the site with the possibility of being ambushed.
Living in the field with no modern equipment visible.
A 24hr scenario - though without 24hr gameplay for the above reasons. (ie You get up in the morning without a specific start time and carry on where you left off, leaving the possibility of being bumped by the enemy at dawn.
A wide scoped scenario with multiple objectives including scouting missions, ambushes and fixed targets.
Use of pyrotechnics within the scenario. (eg Destroying objectives)
Cooking on fires or period stoves (though not always possible depending on sites)
A proper HQ.

Most importantly:
No cheating or non-hit taking, no trying to 'win the game', no freelancers or lone wolves, proper fire and manoeuvre with no plinking at one another from behind trees just out of range, no face masks , no people breaking the No1 rule.

TBH, most of what I would like we did at Jedburgh, though I may be asking for too much in that last bit.

Not much more to say - I think the only thing I would add to that would be:

The wish that units at each event were a bit more homogeneous in kit and in keeping with the scenario rather than a sort of Noah's Ark collection.
And this is really in the first point, that sections worked together and showed a cohesiveness both within themeslves and as part of the whole
That people showed a little bit more concern about being hit.
More explosions! The artillery at Il Giogo was great, the land mines are great.
More speciifc roles tied in with objectives - engineers, signals etc.
The occasional real steel game with a more authentic distribution of weapons[/list:u:1oe6ugvd]

Wish I'd been around for Jedburgh.



I have a small skewer hidden in the collar of my jumping jacket, and a razorblade in my gaiter, as well as my knife.

 

Balance is key. Aim to low and you get SISK, push to high and you get 4 blokes and tin of spam. And sometimes you just need plain old silly.
We take ourselves way to seriously.

Balance is the key - but not in one game! SISKs for those who DON'T take the game seriously, high-aiming games for those who DO take the game seriously! Each sector (and all shades in between) should be catered for.

Westwood for the gothic line game was huge, not sure on the acreage but even then only a small part of it was used.
Lone wolfing is going to happen, sorry but it's a fact. Players new and old get cut off and they will try this.
How many people play WW2 airsoft and then look at how many post up here on topics like this. It boils back to the simple fact, the paying punter wants shooting, loads of blokes, and a bit of a social at the end.
What I want to see is tanks, not fake tanks, real ones, big buggers, I want to be in the big buggers leading the charge and mines and artillery AND before my flights of pure fantasy dump me back to earth, I'm never going to have that.
Look and this is pointed at the number of those who say I want cohesive squad units who follow the orders to achieve objective, just accept that there are those who will do this and there are those who won't.
I fully believe that at this time the present game are more than enough to satisfy the need of most players.
Yes period correct gear is fine but it not where many people are at. Guns and uniforms are the staple diet of the airsofter. Super accurate period kit is the province of the re enactor. Want to live in a fox hole eating fried shite and bully beef, sleeping under a 42 dated hankie.... Excellent, but most softers haven't got to that stage yet and many never will.
Balance is key. Aim to low and you get SISK, push to high and you get 4 blokes and tin of spam. And sometimes you just need plain old silly.
We take ourselves way to seriously.

Hey, the question was what I would like to see, not what I could realistically expect!

It boils back to the simple fact, the paying punter wants shooting, loads of blokes, and a bit of a social at the end.

Oi! What about Marsha!? TBF though, she probably wants loads of blokes too.

But seriously, my preference is that I'd rather spend the 24hrs sneaking round and avoiding firefights. I love the reconnaissance and scouting missions. Some of the most exciting moments I've had in airsoft are when I've not fired a shot.

I fully believe that at this time the present game are more than enough to satisfy the need of most players.

I think this conversation, and Johnny's one too, came about because there are some that clearly don't think they are being catered for. As Chommers says, if everyone aims for more realism it leaves no games for those who prefer a bit of a blat in WW2 kit. There are those who want to aim to make the event as realistic and authentic as possible and there's a market for that, but that is not what some want.

There's room in the market for a more general SISK-style games. Problem is, most of the organisers who do it as a hobby don't want to organise that sort of event. CiA haven't ever organised that sort of thing. We've generally had pretty healthy attendee numbers, and often we'll cap the number specifically because we want a more focused event. That's not to say those without the right kit of weapon can't attend, it's ALL about the frame of mind.

All you are looking for is catered for in the smaller games. The bigger ones will always have various different units. Organisers have to pay for bigger sites.
What most are asking for is already present.
PBI was/ is, as I think there are talks of it reforming, an excellent group, with a very high standard of kit that people built up to gradually.
Define people being more concerned about being hit, I am assuming you aren't taking about hit taking, more about lying down ect. More playing dead.
Authentic distribution of weapons, most people have one gun, maybe two. Rifles have always been spotty at games, the smg rules. You can buy them cheaply. Althought looking now I may have to revise my idea of cheaply.
Real steel.... Yes, absolutely, works in the nam games, adds to the whole, very much worth a shot. No pun intended.
Maybe it me but we seem to be going around in circles. Most asking for the same ideas in a slightly different way.
Still no harm in it.