Where are all the Commonwealth troops? In fact, where..

That's a pretty good acid test.

Q: Would you be OK spending 45 minutes of a game looking for a telephone wire?

If the answer is "no", then you probably shouldn't be doing WW2 airsoft

That's a pretty good acid test.

Q: Would you be OK spending 45 minutes of a game looking for a telephone wire?

If the answer is "no", then you probably shouldn't be doing WW2 airsoft

Surely as an officer Martin, you'd get your people to do that!

I am not going to comment on the Rhineland game because the organisers did a sterling job and my lot of 11 who came enjoyed themselves as always with Army Group South games.

The Where are all the commonwealth troops question is interesting as is the thoughts on who uses this site. I know a pole done recently was put up on who wouldn`t you play and it appeared quite clear Japenese aside that there were plenty who would Not play Americans? I was suprised at that and commented so.

Now perhaps it is time to take stock of the player base of who actually Would attend a game. (Not i like collecting kit,who doesn`t, but who would attend a game) so that organisers have a realistic chance of putting on a correct game. I was suprised that the next CIA game is open to all types of troops (Nothing wrong with that get bums on seats is what I say)

Before anyone chips in well you organise the poll haven`t the foggiest old chap so perhaps some techno wiz kid in collaboration with organisers could do this. Perhaps it could be via PM`s to people who have attended games and then the results published. (What game would you prefer period camping ?? large game what kit you own would you attend North or South of wherever I think you would get the idea)

I think the player base is probably quite small so we all have to pull in the same direction or as was stated in a previous entry New players need to be welcomed and encouraged inorder for us to survive

Nuff said
I await the incomming

I'd just question why go to all that trouble. You can do all the polls/surveys you like but what matters is the booked and paid up players!

Behind the scenes all game organisers have a communal forum where they discuss such matters as dates, advertising, player base etc etc. With the experience of running WW2 games for the past five years there is a good collective understanding of what players want (or what organisers want - equally important) so there really is no need for players to get worked up too much.

Ultimately, some things work and some things don't. To a degree there is some experimentaion, pushing of boundaries and so on - while this brings an element of risk it does revitalize game play. Once in a while things go tits up, that's true, but it ain't indicative of the collapse of WW2 airsoft!

There is a very healthy program of events lining up for 2012 - all players have to do is make the effort to attend.

I think CW is spot on here.

And also its important that a wide variety of styles of play are available rather than just wanting 'bums on seats'.

I mean at one end of the spectrum you've got Scotland excellent Players of War open days where you *can* turn up in modern kit if you want but the majority happily get into the WWII kit mindset and that the scenarios are all WWII (as far as i know).

Then at the other end you have say for example a Wladek game (and i know others do this) with *very* precise (and arguably niche like Polish) units, timeline and kit where you really have to be X, Y or Z.

From experience of doing games similar to the above with PBI, we never really expect more than 15 a side and build a plan around 10 a side as a break even point (profits as with most go into props, pyro and social although we usually end up slightly out of pocket)... but it's just *one* way of doing it.

Personally I like to do those games and I also enjoy stuff like Gunmans battles which I see as middle gorund between the two as in its a tight scenario, good themed WWII historical objectives but leniency towards which unit are there as long as its right for the theatre (i.e. no russians in a normandy game) but the actual unit may vary.

I dont think there is a 'winning formula' .

The crazy thing is that when we started doing these events in 2006/2007 there were only WWII 'themed' events and you would have guys turning up with camelbacks, throatmikes and M4s... Now you've got a battle *every* month and we're not getting terrible attendance, its still providing good events.

I really dont think there is that much to worry about.

If anything we've got too much of a good thing, aside from personal reasons, one of the reasons there is no PBI game this year is that the calendar was chock full of good stuff we wanted to go to that other people were doing!

I'd just question why go to all that trouble. You can do all the polls/surveys you like but what matters is the booked and paid up players!

There is a very healthy program of events lining up for 2012 - all players have to do is make the effort to attend.

1. Absolutly right but a bit of `Market research` will solve most of the issues (Take it from me a problem solving expert!!)

2. As was mentioned before a healthy programme of events is wonderful but launching them on people a couple of months before without adequate notice,and also where it is limits your player base, and ultimately the `booked and paid up players`. We all lead busy lives holidays kids etc don`t need to go on . I applaud players driving 5 or 6 hours to get to a game but just asking the question on "How far are you willing to go to attend a game" and collating the results will give a clear indication of who will and won`t attend games.

I would gladly attend 5 or 6 games a year but if they are all north Wales or in that Lattitude then no matter `What the style of game play or site I will not be attending` It is the same as people said on here about the Rhineland game ` They didn`t come because the Victory show was nearby` You can`t have it all ways.

Gade said "And also its important that a wide variety of styles of play are available rather than just wanting 'bums on seats'" Very true but not much point in organising a niche game that nobody wants to come to??

I am not knocking any one organiser unit ethnic minority race colour or creed so don`t take things to heart everyone if people pooled ideas then the hobby will evolve not stagnate
TTFN
No more posts from me
Subject closed

Totally see your points.

I just think from experience we've found that polls just dont really help at all.

I have no idea *why* they dont reflect reality, they just dont seem to.

I find i get better market research from just being at events and finding out where folk have *actually* travelled from, listening to the 'this is good but its a shame 'x' isnt available' comments pre and post game etc.

And as said about Niche games, we tend to write the PBI ones knwoing pretty much who we'll get and then any new players who fancy it are a bonus. Hence the 10 a side break even point.

We pretty much know we can fill the brit side with our own team/side/group (call it what you will), the only thing then is to make it attractive for a core axis force rather than making them feel like moving figure 11s.

Again we usually tackle this by inviting another group like the old hohenstaufen one to be the opponents.

I just think from experience we've found that polls just dont really help at all.

I have no idea *why* they dont reflect reality, they just dont seem to.

I think they represent people's 'best intentions', rather than actual facts about possible future attendance. The best way to do research is really to go via the results of previous events.

I think, all told, the actual 'player' base (as opposed to 'interest' base) of players that are prepared to travel beyond a single, home site doesn't exceed 200 people at any one time. There's a 'hardcore' of probably 50 or so that you get to know on a named basis if you're a regular attendee at these things, then an equal number that you see at odd ones that you know to nod to. Then there are a whole bunch of others that you might only see at one or two events. People also come into, and out of the hobby all the time of course.

Thing is, not all of said player base wants the same thing from an event, as organisers something we're all too aware of, so the chances of getting them all to an event are minimal to nil. Aiming for 15-20 a side as a respectable turnout is about right, and being to cope with less if it happens is something you learn about fast as an org.

I was suprised that the next CIA game is open to all types of troops (Nothing wrong with that get bums on seats is what I say)

It wasn't really about getting bums on seats, as that's not something we've ever done before. For the last couple of years we've done some pretty restrictive, and often intense, events. Occasionally we like to put on an event that is more about getting people together having a good day skirmishing then a bit of an evening social.

We intentionally relaxed the kit restrictions for this event because we were, to be quite frank, absolutely fed up to the back teeth as being branded as 'elite' or 'exclusive' or 'restrictive' or 'hardcore'; there's also been a bit of criticism pushed CiA's way for being stitch nazis, which has never been the case. We've ALWAYS said to people to turn up with what they have, or borrow kit if necessary; yet that misconception pervaded.

So, for this event, we decided to be explicitly inclusive to encourage all those who may have hesitated to book on to one of our event before. I'm quite pleasantly surprised that we've managed to secure 50 players in such a short time. We're sure they won't be disappointed.

Chances are next year we'll run events that are a bit niche, or perhaps a bit more intense - like Jedburgh or similar.

I don't know how it affects other people, but for me it really helps to have the event dates advertised as long in advance as possible as I can then plan other stuff around them. I've already got a load of weekends blocked out next year with other 'stuff' to do, and as the year fills up there is less chance of coming to WW2 games. I imagine some other people are in the same situation.

Even just a stub entry with no details until later like Josh's ones would be handy, so I can at least block those weekends out. I know this isn't always feasible.

Cheers
Martin

Events are always posted up as soon as a game is confirmed (date, site, scenario, cost), so I'm afraid that's as much notice as you are going to get - there is no point posting 'aspirational' games that may or may not materialise.

I can assure you organisers do all they can to sort things out as far as possible in advance but in the real world some events will be posted up with six months notice, others three. There are soooo many factors involved it is unrealistic to expect much more than that I'm afraid.

It's shaping up to be 11 or 12 events next year so lots to be going at there.

Reading this for the second time, one thing springs to mind (from a member who still hasn't attended an event) Peer pressure..!!
We all have different reasons for belonging to this forum. Gadge listed three, but I am sure there are many many more variants.. I personally love history and am a collector (much to my wifes dissmay, searching for and obtaining is 70% of the appeal) but as the French say "Vive la differance".
I digress, my point is that peer pressure is a great motivator. So far I see that as previously stated, there is a core of players who go to most events.. The problem is that most of us find it hard to attend hardly any. I personally work four out of five Sundays, and work to a roster only one month in advance.. Try telling your wife why you don't want to spend that precious day with her and the kids..
I'm digressing again (Gin always does that to me ) Any how so back to my point.. Peer pressure.. Forum members are spread out all over the UK, if we grouped into small local pockets, even if it was only for a pint twice a month mid week, it would bond players even more and put pressure on to make more of an effort.. Also its a damn sight cheaper for four or five people in a car to drive four hours than just one.. I really don't think it would divide us into select groups, just make WW2 airsofting more approachable to more..
Maybe someone on here with the skills could come up with a post to allow members to find out where each other is within a twenty mile radius, to make meeting up even more accessable..
Just a thought from a member after quite a few G+T's..
Regards Chris..

I'd say it was much, much easier than that. If you don't have time for events then it doesn't make much sense to waste time on 'meetings' - games are the meetings that matter and nothing bonds more than playing alongside fellow WW2 airsofters.

Why not do what many do - post on a game thread about car sharing. It works!

"Hi, I'm coming from the xxxx area and looking for a car share"
or "Hi, I'm travelling from xxxx area and have space for two people in return for petrol share."

With the greatest respect to a member who knows a damn sight more than I do about this topic .... I think you have missed my point totally..
From the perspective of a person still trying his hardest to get to an event, the point I was making was not about making it physically easier to get to events ie. car sharing per say, it was about members who might not go simply because it was easier not to.... not knowing any one and being a little intimidated. If by joining a local group first ( Fermsley lives just up the road and I have met him once and seems like a thoroughly nice chap, not quite sure about Jimbo.. just kidding and love your burgers!!!!) it would make a much easier in road to what seems like a very small and for the want of a better word select community. I don't think regular mid week meetings would be set in stone but humans being mostly social animals it's nice to share ones knowledge and experiences and not just over a computer screen.. I often read about the pre event social/drinks and how great the are, well this would just be something similar or even just going for a drink with like minded mates.. Once again just my opion, but also possibliy from the perspective of others who don't always find it easy to make it to events..
Kindest Regards Chris

cdfw, it is difficult I know. It's certainly nice to find a group of like minded individuals who live fairly close to where you are and you can travel with.

I now go to events with such a small group, but we're not really organised as such and I met the other chaps at events, not elsewhere.

What you mention is one of the reasons we have the "New to the Forum" section, so you can find people in your area and get to know them.

I've been to a few events on my own, obviously it is nice to go with a group, but sometimes it is just easier to organise to go on your own. Yes it can be a bit scary, rather reminds me of first day at school, but you get to know people quickly enough. I do/did the same with regular airsoft, my weekend gaming time is very limited and when you need some trigger time you need to go.

I am fortunate in that many members of my local wargames club also do airsoft & re-enactment, so we spend a lot of time chatting about that and admiring bits of uniforms rather than playing wargames So I guess that is social contact, even if we seem incapable or getting to an event as an organised group any more (well, the others are organised but they mainly leave me to get on with it on my own now!).

Cheers
Martin

i can understand people being a little intimerdated going solo to your first event and worrieing that you have put half your kit on upside down and will be ignored as a fool but the reality is far from that,ive never met a more open and friendly bunch of people anywhere and they are more likey to come over to you and help you sort you'r kit out than laugh.
i confess i dont know how to get people off the fence but it would be good if we could,and im sure haveing some more entry level events like sealion and rineland where the kit is more flexible is the way in.they wouldent need to dominate the calender but 1 or 2 per year could help if they were marketed right ,we could all post them upon our local site forums .if one game can draw 1 or two new players into to more properly atmospheric ww2 games then that's a win for our hobby in the long run surely .most of us would rather be at a good event than two lesser ones but by us all attending the less fussy games it will help hook people and is still better than a walk on day.

cdfw, if you want to organise a non-game social, do it!

I know other forums where people organise meet ups for drinks, Flickr photographers often meet to go around a place taking photos, then sharing their shots on Flickr (known as Flickrmeets).

So, just start a thread in Off Topic, say where you are, suggest a good pub as see if anyone would like to meet for a swift half! It doesn't need to be any more 'top down' or organised than that I don't think.

You know what, based on that last comment maybe I will..I don't want to start a whole different social scene.. I originally answered this post because I thought I had a view as to why maybe more people "DIDN'T" attend an event, in"ANSWER" to the original post, and based solely on my personal view point . Nice chap stated he wished he had not started his original thread because of the adverse comments.. I can see his point.. All I did was put a possible answer as to the original question and I seem to get alot of negative posts.. Believe me I am not a wall flower or shy person, far from it and would start up a conversation in any room, but all I was trying with my post was to put a possible reason as to why more people had not attended a particular event and try to put a point over from maybe a different perspective as to why the said event wasn't a success.. I have been a member on this forum for the past year and have never seen the negative responses this thread has raised.. I personally am quite surprised...
All I said was " that to make this hobby more accessable we should form local groups" what is wrong with that... If its so wrong maybe it answers one or two questions raised earlier...
Kindest regards Chris...

Hmmm, no one has stopped you making your point, such as it was. However, the plain fact of the matter is that there ARE players doing 'commonwealth' impressions and that they DO attend events. As such the proposition of the original post was factually incorrect. Incidentally, the single event Nicechap refers to WAS a successful event so it's not even fair for cdfw suggest it wasn't as again that wouldn't be factually correct. What IS true is that for one reason or another the number of players who said they would attend this one event as British didn't turn up on the day. And that's all there is to it.

Now, my contention is that one of the main reasons for players not attending events is that they don't attend events. You can talk about it with mates in the pub if you want, you can talk about it on the forum but what ultimately matters is booking on and turning up. I have a thousand and one reasons not to attend events, indeed they should actually prevent me from attending events (I won't bore you with list!) but where there's a will there's a way.

Posters on this thread have been positive, not negative and the message is simple. Turn up at an event!

(As for local 'groups', well there are, plenty of them - all formed by meeting each other at airsoft events )