Why I Don't Do WW2 Airsoft - Q&A

why not put your next bathroom mirror Latvian Pioneer Corps loadout on hold for a few months and actually play a game?

nice post

Is this provoked by anything in particular Martin? I'd have thought you were preaching to the converted on here.

Surely the majority if folk on here do attend games or there wouldnt be such a full calendar.

I think Martin has posted up because of his love of the hobby and, to point out the fence sitters or people who have yet to play, what a great hobby it is, with some fantastic people. Period kit and weapons are merely the tools that we use, it's the people that make the difference.

I think that many newcomers and potential players can be put off by the sometimes apparent obsession with kit and perfection, when really, it's getting out and taking part that's important. 20 players in lookalike kit, who are enthusiastic, more so than 20 players who are afraid of getting their original, expensive and obsessed over kit dirty, can make a game. Hark back to the early CiA events, before anyone else did WW2 airsoft games. Harldy anyone had "perfect" kit, yet, since then, many have lost their direction, or forgotten why they joined the "scene" in the first place.

Aye, but haivng actually having been there at the foundation of CIA the reason we did it was to 'inspire people to put on games we wanted to play'.

There were very few WWII events, non that were WWII kit or lookalike only and it wasnt going to happen sitting around.

The initial plan was to put a few on in the hope others would set up there own so we coudl attend without having to organise them ourselves.

Since starting CIA up we've now got.

Players of War (over a hundred players regularly I beleive?)
Gunman games (again about 60+ each event)
Doughboys games
Sandbox games
Army Group South
Jimbos games
Wladeks cassino game
PBI battles

I dont personally see the scene as in that bad a state TBH, just a lot more choice out there than there was even one let alone three years ago.

Now considering we're in the middle of a recession where folk simply cant afford to splash out the money they used to on hobbies (i used to play airsft every week, if not once a fortnight three years ago, now I can only really afford once every two months) then its still quite a good turnout.

Fair enough people do get very into the collecting but I think thats largely a bloke thing, all men like to collect *something*, I dont think its so much a case of not wanting to get it messed up (nobodys daft enough to skirmish in anythign original that cant take a knock anyway) its just more that when you discover an interest in the period and the kit it can often be very tempting to spend your £50 'pocket money' on that original K98 bayonet you might never see again at that price than on a ticket for an event.

I mean an event ticket might only be £40 - £50 but when you put on the hidden costs of petrol, food, drinking money and possibly for some accomodation all of a sudden it turns into a £100 trip.

Just playing Devils adovcate, I dont personally think the WWII Skirmishing scene is actually in that bad a state at the mo, if anythng there might be *too much* to buy and do now

These are all reasons I've used myself in order to justify having lots of crap I never use, that's why I posted the list

Preaching to the converted? Apparently not, if you look at how few people have responded to the "Do you actually attend events" poll compared to how many forum members we have

Gadge makes a fair point about £40 becoming £100 when you add associted costs and if you really can't afford it then there's no argument.

However the increase in the number of games being put on means that most regular players have to pick and choose their events. The scene doesn't grow just by adding dates, first timers have to actually take the plunge and turn up.

as you know, i am out of work and have been for well over a year now. i get no state hand outs.
i am now on a government unemployment number hiding program for six months that pays me less a week than i used to earn in a day
i had a budget for airsoft this year ( as mentioned starts out £25, then spirals upto about £100) but due to the fact i got offered a once in a lifetime deal on a deac no4 , thats the budget gone i am afriad. so yeah, in this case airsoft comes second to reenacting i suppose.
also,,, with the hours louise is having to work to cover my missing wage every week, i cant always get away at weekends.
cassino is a case in point, as it stands at the moment i am booked in. louise has a 10 hour shift on both the saturday and sunday. the in-laws are in dublin that weekend. looks like i am looking after the kids.

Getting people to attend an event for the first time is essential for the hobby to survive, because a certain percentage of people will leave the scene every year for all sorts of reasons.

I must admit as an event organiser I'm slightly bemused by the number of people I know who have said they want to try WWII airsoft, and even have all the kit, but who never come to an event. I can't force them to attend, but they really don't know what they're missing.

cassino is a case in point, as it stands at the moment i am booked in. louise has a 10 hour shift on both the saturday and sunday. the in-laws are in dublin that weekend. looks like i am looking after the kids.

sound like a typical weekend in my life nigel :

and the most annoying bit porta........

i HAVE the money for this one. just might not have the time.

bit of a bugger really.

Here's a thought,
I'm not old enough!
I fully understand with child protection laws being as they are, why many people dont want under 18's at their games, but "youngbloods" are really enthusiastic, very keen and willing to learn and if nothing else give a "target rich environment"
At Ford we take players as young as 14, which gives a greater opportunity for Dads to play alongside their sons. I know of players at Ford who have badgered their parents into a day trip to Sabre Sales to buy kit (Canadian 1950's at a good price coz they've got lot's of small sized stuff, thanks Nick and the guys) My point being that there's loads of youngsters that are bursting at the seams, played all the call of duty games and want to get out there and involved. They have the tinyiest budget but the greatest imaginations, I've seen youngsters wrap balsa wood around their bar10 to make it look like an Enfield to play on regular walk on games against the two tone hicap dross, just because they are into WW2 airsofting.
At Sealion, there will be lots of youngsters, look alikes and even one or two Americans (the 82nd were up north instructing HG units, so could have been there) Admittedly it's a "What If" game so nobody can argue with the fine details, the thing is I want to get as many involved as possible.

We just ran an Ops weekend at GASS and got 30 never played WW2 guys to join up and play. Gunman is always on the recruit for the scene, ARE a profit making set up and still run games at £26 for a day to £45 for THE WEEKEND!! We did the Ops weekend for £35, thats 2 days of WW2 action + a social. I dont think its got anything to do with the ticket price, peeps can iether afford it or not, have the time or not or just like the idea of ww2 but not the airsoft bit.

The info on this forum is second to none and stands for more than just CIA, it has become the community's HUB hence www.ww2airsoft.org.uk

I stand by Gadges comment and a post Hyde made 'you never had it so good'...though the resecion has been a blow the hobby is at a hight and still growing.

If the consern is that peeps need a push to get started, why not dangle a carrot and do an ww2 open day which is what Operations weekends are all about. No one feels any presure to perform as its NOT an event (though has a similar feel and set up) the missions are still all objective based and you get a chance to practice tactics in the field.

I have to say Martin I misread your first post but after your second post understood completely, I have had so many almost hobbies and found excuses not to take them on. Good post bud

Gunman and Zero Bravo makes a good points in addition to BedsnHerts' original post - there IS actually something for everyone, for all ages, all levels of kit authenticity, all levels of gameplay and at a range of prices - if only you bother to actually attend!

However, people aren't rushing to book at anyone's events now like they once did. So, I think voices are being raised with concern about player complacency - if you don't book then events will inevitably be dropped, if events get cancelled then all you end up with is players with garages full of kit and no events to go to, which seems rather odd!

Alternatively it could be like this.

Four years ago their were perhaps four events a year happening.

This year we've got over twelve (probably closer to 15) that are either scheduled or have happened. So even if we've got four times as many people using the forum we've got four time as many things to go to.

I'd imagine that a lot of PoW players use this forum but are not able to make it to events because of the massive distance, the same for Warrens crew at The Hill etc.

The problem is there is no way you can 'ration' the ammount of events on (or really should you) so that esentially foll go to whatevers near to them, competetively priced and has the kit they can fit in with and the play style they want to use. Again as its been said, its never been as easy to get involved in the scene.

I think we're also victims of our own success to a degree.

Many players came in via wwii airsoft and have since formed or joined 'traditional' re-enacting type groups. The fact that the 16th SS, Dog Company and PBI all attend 'living history' type events and put on display etc means thats even more events (and corresponding cash and time) is sideined into another aspect of a bigger hobby.

We're all re-enactors, we agreed that yonks ago, to me my re-enacting hobby is probably about 50 per cent living history and 50 per cent airsoft skirmishing, in PBI we have some guys who do 100 per cent living histry and some who do 100 per cent skirmishing,its all re-enacting as said. The point im trying to make is that the 'kit creep' that occurs naturally by being part of the WWII arsoft scene (where you kit evolves over time to beinng very very accurate as many want to improve their look and realism) does syphon some guys off into other 'non skirmish' events.

In essence we got 80 guys to 'arnhem' in a few days of booking as their wasnt much else on in the calendar, if you didnt get yourself kitted out in look a like for that one, you might not have had another chance for four months to play! Now we've a battle *every* month (even in winter with urban sites) and theres a lot of competition for the 'camo pound'.

True enough, but if people don't participate (for whatever reason - all are valid) then it is easy to see the calendar slipping to perhaps four events a year. And thus back to year one - less choice, events further away from home, game style not to liking.

We have already seen Josh drastically cut back on the WW2 events this year, PBI only doing one, CiA doing the usual four but one being a training day rather than a gaming event.

Anyway, its more of a wakeup call really - WW2 airsoft is all about participation. The writing is on the wall!

PBI only doing one, !

And for a couple of good reasons.

Firstly we felt the calendar over extended anyway and that we really didnt need to run too many events this year as their was plenty of other games to get involved in!

The other slighly bigger reason is that PBI these days are at least 50 per cent living history driven, we're attending probably five or six public shows this year and turning down offers from the bigger ones (we dont think we're quite ready for them yet).

And lastly and I think this is why I make this point, as it ties in with my earlier point about the whole reason you and I (and Guy, Steve and Yith) set up CIA Dave was to actually be able to *particpate* in battles rather than run them! Caen was probably the best weekends skirmishing the PBI orgs team had had in years to be honest and it was so good to be actually a 'player' rather than an organsier that we've decided not to do anything other than living history or group training days until next season.

We'd rather do one good battle, at the right time in the right place then do several becasue we feel we have to and then become dispondant if we dont get massive turnouts tbh.

To draw an analogy, when i ran nightclub nights, my most popular night I ran once a month and used to sell out to capacity, so folk wouldnt be turned away we started running fortnightly and for about two months we were at capacity each time... then it soon dropped off to less than half a full club for both nights. It had just ceased to be an 'event' and something particularly special, folk felt if they missed that one it was no big deal as they would just go in a week or so's time.

For me personally I'm more than happy to let others pick up the ball and run with it and see what happens. I really dont forsee any great downturn in the scene, as Pete said 'you've never had it so good'.

And lastly and I think this is why I make this point, as it ties in with my earlier point about the whole reason you and I (and Guy, Steve and Yith) set up CIA Dave was to actually be able to *particpate* in battles rather than run them! Caen was probably the best weekends skirmishing the PBI orgs team had had in years to be honest and it was so good to be actually a 'player' rather than an organsier that we've decided not to do anything other than living history or group training days until next season.

Well, this wasn't to be a discussion about any group in particular and up until now it has been nicely generic. But you do illustrate why a large chunk has drifted away - to reenacting - but the inward flow from conventional reenacting hasn't been commensurate.

BTW, "was to actually be able to *particpate* in battles rather than run them" wasn't the reason why we set up CiA. We wanted to play the sort of games we what to play (i.e. in a rather selfish way, our own CiA style and latterly PBI event styles) and encourage others to organise events (clearly, in the styles that they wanted to play). This has given the diversity of event styles we see today. And perhaps you are right - "I think we're also victims of our own success to a degree" - too much choice now for the available pool of players!

Luckily, the CiA team are very motivated and enjoy running events just as much as 'playing' and are sufficiently enthused to put 100's of hours into organising events we really want to reenact - this is one of the benefits of not doing it for income, which can be a very different motive (although no less valid).

BTW, "was to actually be able to *particpate* in battles rather than run them" wasn't the reason why we set up CiA. We wanted to play the sort of games we what to play (i.e. in a rather selfish way, our own CiA style and latterly PBI event styles) and encourage others to organise events (clearly, in the styles that they wanted to play). This has given the diversity of event styles we see today. And perhaps you are right - "I think we're also victims of our own success to a degree" - too much choice now for the available pool of players!

Luckily, the CiA team are very motivated and enjoy running events just as much as 'playing' and are sufficiently enthused to put 100's of hours into organising events we really want to reenact - this is one of the benefits of not doing it for income, which can be a very different motive (although no less valid).

Well I obviously laboured for a year or so under a complete misunderstanding there Dave , as far as i recall it was *always* about providing a framework and model for other people to run stuff that we woudl want to be involved in. personally i think that has clearly happend and personally for me its 'mission accomplished' given that I'm now spolit for choice. I think the re-enactment/skirmish crossover is there. We had about 30 per cent at Freshman from the 'traditional' Re-enactment crowd who had done little or no airsoft before, at least four guys on each side.. may not sound like a lot but it mounts up proportionately at a small scale event.

It had just ceased to be an 'event' and something particularly special, folk felt if they missed that one it was no big deal as they would just go in a week or so's time

I think that's exactly right.

im a fence sitter