Training Day heads-up

Cheers for the heads up chap.

I dont think we'll be doing that one though, i cant speak for the group but we tend to organise our own historically accurate ones (also with ex forces staff).. and ours cost £15

Doing modern training would sort of undo what we've done as a group.

Cheers for the offer though.

BTW £45 is a *lot* of money for a training day IMO when a CiA *weekender* costs as much.

In case you're not aware this clashes with Beltring, which is where I'll be.

OK that is a big clash. I may have to re-jig this one.

I'd seriously look at the pricing too mate.

Lightfighter used to do CQB training by former sas man john mac and it didn't cost anymore than your normal open day!

£45 is a *lot*, i personally am also wary of the teaching of modern drills to non serving personnel, the government really dont like it and its borderline ethical.

Its the reason PBI only teach 40s drills so we cant be accused of 'paramilitary training' and give the home office another reason to ban airsoft.

I think few airsofters will want to pay twice the fee of an open day for training especially when 99 per cent of military training has very little application to airsoft due to the massively different engagement ranges.

If its *cheaper* or the same price as a days gaming a lot more folk will give it a go.

I think there are some different issues here:

To players like me who have no military background there is an awful lot of aimless running around and following the guy in front at airsoft games. Simply put we just don't know what we're doing. I feel I would get a lot more out of future games by getting some training in how to operate as part of a combat unit from someone who does it for a living. The training shedule that I have asked for would be tailored to airsoft and so would be 100% relevant.

I don't share your concerns with this being viewed as paramilitary training. As you rightly say the differences between airsoft and the real thing are huge - in fact so huge that even a Daily Mail reader would have trouble convincing the Home Office that we are a threat to society by running around with bolt action rifles whilst dressed in 1940s uniforms. I don't think it fits the profile for terrorist cells

Yes the pricing is stiff but £15 would only just cover venue hire for a group of 20 without any instructors so I don't really know what to do about that. If you have any contacts that you think would be able to deliver this kind of thing at a more acceptable price range then please PM me with their details.

I do it for free (and used to teach it for living) but will not do modern drills on principle.

Unfortunately weather you see it this way or not the home office *does* frown on folk being taught current forces skills by serving or ex serving soldiers.

My serious recommendation would be to come along to the next cia/KGss/doughboys or PBI training day and get 100 per cent relevant and correct period drills.

Ask about at some sites, If F&O will lease their site for £15 for training days (as do the site KGss are using for their meet up on 6th april) then its clearly not impossible.

As for paying instructors... well as said there are a *lot* of ex forces (and current) folk on here (and a sizeable ammount of re-enactors who know the drills) who would do it for free.

I'm not saying dont do it (in fact i have no right to ) im just saying i'll be chuffing amazed if anyone pays that amount to learn what the TA will *pay you* to learn.

Its just overpriced and not relevant to wwii in my opinion.

Sorry that all comes across as overly harsh.

I think what im trying to say is there are already two training days at least a year (we have had two since jan already)

As these are on average £20, crewed by WWII enthusiasts, teaching WWII skills (and even drill and field living techniques) and already established i think you'll be struggling to get folk to pay two or three times as much for modern instruction from folk they dont already know.

There is also a *very* full events calendar that folk are struggling to fit all the games in as it is.

I wouldnt see having no military training as that much of a disadvantage either, most soldiers in wwii were hasitly trained citizen soldier conscripts, most their skils were learnt on the job through hard experience.

From my own experience those of us *with * modern training rarely fair much better than those without and if anything we do thing *wrong* for the 40s as our skills are different.

I have to agree with Gadge here... (surprise surprise... lol)

I don't know from a government/mod/home officer point of view how they see this as that's not my area.

However personally I really don't want to know modern drills, tactics, etc... It'll muddy up the 40s stuff that I really want to know.

Also yes, £45 is a lot for a days training. I remember just a couple of years ago £45 was the price Stirling Services charged for a whole weekend of play along with a morning of training by John Mcaleese... I went on several of those... so personally I've done that already for a lot less.

So anyway, I think we've said what we wanted to say... take it or leave it...

Good luck with the event!

No offense taken. You guys have been doing this for a long time and I value your experience and opinions over someone who is trying to charge me a lot of money for a service. And I totally agree that £45pp is a lot of money.

My experience at the Eagle game, much fun though it was, was that the US forces had clearly done their training, had players acting as NCOs directing attacks and most of the time were all over us like a rash. I'm not really into US loadouts, otherwise I'd have signed up with them quick smart. Surely that kind of training is not "modern" but more universal, no? (That's a genuine question btw).

Basically I'd like to play in a British or German unit where at least I know what I'm supposed to be doing and don't feel like a numpty. My impression of CIA training days (unfounded as I've never been to one) is that a lot of emphasis is placed on parade ground-type drilling, which interests me not at all, but maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick here.

Yep, wrong end of the stick a bit.

We did one hours drill in eight hours on site and that was to get folk loosened up and used to moving on commands.

After drill we did fire and manouvre using the 40s method not the modern method.

We also covered section defensive tactics and fire control orders and patrolling skills with 40s hand signals.

Lunch was a demonstration of the kit the tommy would carry and how to cook and maintain kit in the field.

Evening was more practice at section attacks and flanking attacks ending up in a 'final exercise' versus the waffen ss.

What you saw in reality at eagles was some *very* experienced squad leaders rallying troops around them on the US side (chomley, headshot, Josh).

(in fact the recapture of churchill at the end was largely due to someone gathering a group of yanks around him and storming the german camp)

Many of the US players there had not been to the doughboys training day.

What the training days do do very well is create a sense of group community rather than give someone the skills to wage a war (or play better airsoft), training together makes you see the other players as more dependable and you take risks better knowing you can rely on your team mates. To this end the social elements and the 'drill' elements of a training day are as important as the shooty shooty bits.

I think your impression of the training days is probably largely formed by the fact that former organisers on the axis side put a lot of emphasis on 'photoshoots' of ss troops on parade and you see these staged photos rather than the game training in progress.

Mmmm...shooty shooty bits.

You're right, the photoshoots kind of killed it for me, but it seems like this is exactly the sort of thing I need to be doing.

When's the next one?

Well we had one in Jan, I'm sure we can arrange one for the summer.

Just need to find a gap in the calendar.

Just need to find a gap in the calendar.

From what I can see there's nothing going on between Bryansk Forest 10/11 May and Operation Haggard 5/6 July so early to mid June might be a good time??