Heh, now it's been sprung on the unwashed I thought it might be at least polite to let you know what's happening!
As you know in a previous existence we explored possible ways to move forward in the light of the impending (as then) VCR Bill.
There didn't seem to be any easy options - setting CiA up as an airsoft 'site' although feasible would have been costly as it would require an annual PLI which would be a duplicated expence as we run games at sites with pre-existing insurance.
We couldn't set ourselves up as a reenactment group for the same reasons.
We explored some sort of partnership with UKARA but that didn't get far and anyway there has been a lot of tension of late.
We has a while ago had exploratory discussion with PD, largely about insurance schemes, but again there didn't seem to be any particular reason to move forward.
For various reasons we have just made a major effort to formalise CiA with a constitution and banking facilities.
While we were at it it seemed an ideal time to see if we could get the AFRA thing up and running as well.
Anyway, the upshot is that we will have a formal membership (those that have played our games - as from Eagle but I sure we will start grandfathering too).
This forms the basis of the AFRA thing. By affiliating with AFRA CiA come under AFRA PLI. CiA are the exclusive organisation who can put forward 'airsofters' as opposed to conventional 'reenactors' to AFRA membership. F&O can't, Gunman can't. At least for the time being.
While it provides an opportunity for airsofters to buy RIFs without using the airsofter's defence we were keen not to over stress that. That's why we insist on attending and playing one proper CIA game and that they have suitable kit levels. And we can still refuse those who we are unconvinced of the motives.
Dalby is taking a 'risk' here - he knows he is going to get flak (heh, he enjoys it). But we are joining on our terms - a separate entity of airsoft, live battle gaming if you like, distinct from living history, public battles & displays etc of the 'traditional' reenactor. Recognition of what the six of us have achieved, if you like.
It should benefit everyone and help in the many crossover areas. And there is more we can do in the future - it opens up appearance at public and private events, allows gaming on private land amongst many other things..
Yup... all understood and I figured as much.
BTW, have you read the rules pdf you posted the link to... its very re-enactor centric and VERY restrictive.
I think you need to go back and look at it again...
No, our rules apply. No doubt they will get round to making their rules a bit more inclusive - those look like leftovers from the old German group. Insurance has been changed to cover airsoft risks.
cool I see you've tidied things up...
BTW, is there any chance the two threads that are appearing at the top of every forum can just go on the main discussion forums...
2 reasons...
1: Its a bit cheeky advertising CiA stuff on everyone's private forum... 
2: It'll make it easier to spot new posts on them as the icon on the forum index will change appropriately... right now you have to go in to a forum to see updates...
Ahead of you!
I've put a global sticky with a locked announcement as its not a bit cheeky advertising CiA stuff on everyone's private forum!
But I've also put the original topic renamed for discussion in the general bit...
BTW... I need to talk to you about this as regards PBI...
Also other stuff... I suggest at some point on Saturday...
Ahead of you!
I've put a global sticky with a locked announcement as its not a bit cheeky advertising CiA stuff on everyone's private forum!
But I've also put the original topic renamed for discussion in the general bit...
That's the tidying up I mentioned...
I still reckon its cheeky putting non forum stuff as global announcements...
They blend in with the announcements that people may have put in the forums themselves and just confuse matters
Cool beans, in the evening sometime then - when things calm down!
They blend in with the announcements that people may have put in the forums themselves and just confuse matters
It won't be there forever, I'll move it next week so as to sure a good number have seen it.
Same with the membership thing...
Which should really say CiA membership in the title...
Yup, thanks - amended.
Heh, we advertise every other site, game and retailer for now't - I don't feel in the slightest bit ashamed in pushing what we offer!
Fair enough... but I think it is important that it doesn't get confused with other people's stuff... which it certainly was doing.
Its better now, still not ideal, but better.
And just a quick apology.
While we have been working on this and other schemes for a while it wasn't a deliberate policy not to let you know there was an announcement pending - I (we) just overlooked the courtesy, sorry about that, it must have been a surprise!
The only excuse is that several things have coincided and I was in a rush to get it all in place and announced before the next game when the two schemes will start.
It was a surprise and it would have been nice to have been included in the discussions.
Doing so could have avoided the potentially embarrassing comments that have been made.
However as far as I am concerned, you are forgiven...
Yeah sorry if i upset you guys too, Spoke to Kermit and i saw your reason for the phrase keen re-enactor, i just personally felt it needed definition, seems barrie and Anne thought so too and it was they i was thinking of.
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
Also thinking of Evo... and Pete.. Though to be honest Pete does at least have short hair and no earrings...
And Steiner, Ranj,... etc... etc..
The thing is - switch out of reenactor mode and into WW2 airsofter mode.
We are joining on our terms - it's a new genre/branch for AFRA. Think in terms of PBI or KGSS rules, we are inclusive not exclusive in who we have as members.
It ain't nothing to do with conventional reenactors BUT it would be a mistake in the medium term and long term to let any Tom, Dick or Harriet in (in the wake of the VCRA) - hence some restrictions.
What we really could do with is a new term. The unique thing we do is real, live battles - man on man, shooting each other. Reenactors don't do it - theirs is pretend. WW2 live action battles has a LARP sound to it and 'battle simulation' sounds a bit poncy and 'war gaming' is table top stuff...
Agreed Dave, I think a new term would be quite useful if we can coin the right one.
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
conventional reenactors
Now that's a better term than "proper re-enactors"...
I think there is just a concern as regards what the actual requirements are...
For CiA membership its attendance of a single CiA event... fair enough... sorted...
But really there needs to be at least some rules for joining AFRA through CiA...
eg:
- attending more than one event and keeping doing so.
- collecting significantly more kit than the basic requirements of CiA
- Not breaking CiA rules
- No political bias or affiliation (cuts oddball out... )
There is a concern that otherwise it becomes a bit of an old boys club and a bit cliquey...
What is the definition of a keen WW2 airsofter? Perhaps that's what needs to be asked.
Sort of exactly what i was trying to say to jay last night but put much more clearly than i could say.
My worry was oddball and spiers, obviously a CiA decision on 'no you cant ' would be what i expect but what reason would you give him?
His kits good enough but his attitude is awful.
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
