Scenario Ideas discussion section

4. The US line having sufficiently held up the Germans has allowed for the successful withdrawal of rear echelon troops. However some supply dumps have been left behind in the confusion. US troops are required to try to evacuate whatever supplies they can take with them and destroy those they cannot to prevent them from falling into German hands.
* US forces must escort the supply vehicle(s) as it is withdrawn through the pass ahead of the German advance. They must stop at each supply dump in turn, loading up what they can and demolish the rest before the Germans arrive. As the retreat is well organised most of the supplies have already been moved and the demolition charges prepared so they are only required to wait 5 minutes to complete their task. Other US forces are to form a rearguard to slow as they retreat to slow the German advance as much as possible. As the withdrawal is orderly they are well supplied with mines, obstacles and AT weapons to assist them in this endeavour. There are no ammunition limits.
* German forces must pursue the US troops, breaking through the rearguard and capture the supply vehicle and as many dumps as possible before the US forces make their escape.

5. The German forces, having successfully captured a large quantity of US supplies are able to continue their advance. However they must protect these supplies from rogue US forces cut off behind the lines, intent on causing as much damage as possible as they retreat to link up with their own line.
* US forces have been split by the advance. Some elements have retreated safely to new makeshift positions where they intend to stop incursions by the lead German elements. The remainder were cut off by the hasty withdrawal and are intent on reaching their own lines. However they have orders to attack and destroy any captured supplies they encounter en route.
* German forces now have enough supplies to continue their offensive for some time. To facilitate this recon elements are being sent forward to test the new US line and to try and locate and likely weak spots. However they are also nervous of US troops attempting to destroy captured supplies so part of the force must be retained in the rear areas to protect these assets.

6. Following their successful withdrawal in the face the German advance the US forces have set up a new defensive line from which to hold off the next assault. Thanks to their efforts in retrieving the supply dumps the German forces have run short of fuel and their vehicles are stranded.
* US forces have been tasked with destroying the German vehicles whilst they are at their most vulnerable- immobilised. The Germans will also be attempting to bring up fuel from the rear to get their vehicles moving again, every effort should be made to make sure this never makes it to its destination.
* German forces must defend their immobilised vehicles to ensure that US demolition teams are unable to destroy them. At the same time fuel supplies must be carried from the rear by hand to allow the advance to continue.

7. The lines have stabilised, for the moment, and both sides are considering the possibility of mounting an attack. In order to discover whether or not this is a viable option both sides are to carry out reconnaissance missions to assess the enemy strength and locate key positions.
* US troops must mount reconnaissance missions in order discover the German vehicle laagers and troop encampments as they prepare for their attack so that they can be registered for artillery strikes prior to the counterattack. The capture of prisoners for questioning regarding troops strengths and dispositions would also be useful.
* German forces must carry out reconnaissance of the US lines in order to locate weak points for exploitation. They must register any heavy weapons positions such as machine gun or mortar positions for strikes by Stukas before the main assault. The capture of prisoners for questioning regarding troops strengths and dispositions would also be useful.

8. As a result of their successful reconnaissance operations the German forces have learnt that the US forces intend to counterattack. In order to us this to their advantage the Germans have relocated their positions and must prepare an ambush for the advancing US troops.

* US forces must advance on the German lines, breaking through the German ambush and destroy their forces.

* German troops must successfully ambush the US convoy and destroy the attacking forces. (Note; US success in missions 5 or 6 could result in the German troops carrying this out with limited or no vehicle support).

9. The US forces have managed to carry out their reconnaissance missions with remarkable results and are set to turn the tables on their attackers. Massed artillery raining down upon the German laagers signals the start of the surprise US counterattack.

* The US forces must breach the makeshift German positions in order to put the enemy in to flight and break the offensive once and for all.
* German forces must hold on to their positions whilst the US forces wear themselves out against the defences.

10. Having routed the US attack the German forces are approaching their goal- the open plains beyond the pass. However first they must negotiate a series of US holding positions within the pass. These outposts are located in key positions covering mine fields but are only intended to slow down the Germans, not stop them entirely.

* US troops are spread thinly over the numerous holding positions and have few reserves to stop any determined attack. However they must do what they can to prevent the Germans from advancing too quickly.
* The Germans are keen to push their advance as fast as possible but are wary of potential minefields. They must locate the safest possible route to the end of the pass, avoiding the toughest defensive positions in true blitzkrieg style. However avoiding the enemy entirely is unlikely.

11. The German offensive is broken. The German forces are in full retreat back the way they have come through the pass and the newly reinforced US units must follow up with all available haste.

* The US elements must move ahead of the retreating German column, preventing its escape from the pass. Meanwhile other forces pursue the Germans from the rear and stop them from establishing defensive positions.
* The Germans must reach the end of the pass, successful evacuating as much of their equipment as possible.

12. The US forces have prepared to make their last stand at the end of Kasserine pass. They must either stop the advance here, or die trying. They have masses of artillery moving into position to support them; however it appears it may come too late.

* US forces must hold out in their last stand positions for 30 minutes. If they succeed the artillery will be ready and they can call on massive firepower to stop the Germans in their tracks.
* The Germans nearly have victory in their grasp, if they breach this position there is nothing to stop them from driving the Allies right out of Tunisia.

13. The German offensive may be over but they are still willing to fight on. Another counter stroke is planned against the 8th Army in the East but it needs time to prepare. The remnants of the 10th panzer division are holding the end of the Kasserine pass and intend to let no one through. Reinforcements are on the way, but will they make it in time?

* The US forces must breach the German defences before the German reinforcements, which include a detachment of the new Tiger tanks arrive. They have an estimated 30 minutes in which to do this.
* The German forces must hold their positions until the Tigers arrive. If this is achieved at least something can be taken from this debacle of an offensive.

I think I need to draw up a scenario tree so you can make better sense of it.

hehe yup, I think the content in the missions look good though, although I dont think we'll manage to get that many games into the day.

I thought it made sense fine as was. It is interesting how the basics of each mission are remarkably similar to what was draw up here.

yeah and for what I had in mind!

I'm planning on making a 37mm field gun and a mortar for the game, if you were looking for destroyable objectives there's 2 right there.

The mortar worked well at Alsos this weekend, might give the US a bit more poke against the onslaught!

Yes that is quite amusing. My intention was that the later scenarios could potentially end up in just about any order. The way I ended up writing them doesn't quite fit with that idea however. I think it may be possible to fit 8 games in to the course of the day. Some will be quite short and the time of the year means we have plenty of daylight. Obviously we don't want to drag it out too long though as people will still need to get home.

A few bits of light artillery would be excellent. An AT gun would give any german Vehicles something to think about and mortars are always fun. The terrain is well suited to using them as well- no trees to get in the way and lots of high ridges to position them behind and lob rounds over. Plus they would be useful as targets to find for recce type missions.

If you are planning on making a mortar that works like that one then, excellent. Me and Ranj were talking about how cool it was during the long drive home and the main reason that made it such fun was that it was just a functional weapon, that we used the same as any gun.

It's a shame that the rounds for it are so expensive but even with the 15 we had for it made for great fun.

One point is mine fields. How would we plan on doing them? The Alsos minefield was also great as it was just there and tremendously tense to walk through without obvious trip wires or such. So how would we represent a minefield?

Anti tank guns are tricky, How do you make them work as you are not shooting anything from them?

Also, as Yith was saying, we need to know what vehicles we can guarantee to be there.

How we do mine fields depends upon what and what role it plays. If it is just to stop a vehicle going a certain way, either of safety or gameplay purposes then a simple sign would be enough. If it is a makeshift mine field put there as part of an ambush as clearly visible mine slapped in the middle of the road is best- so the vehicle drivers can see them and stop.
If it is a permenant minefield that is part of a game then it depends how obvious we want it to be. For route denile purposes we wouldn't necessarily need any mines at all as unlike any other site it is easy for us to create dummy mine fields by digging up the sand, with perhaps a bit of wire or some flags if we want to make it more obvious. if its and 'active' mine field that people must move through/clear then we can use the same trick, plus some real ones like Boshman's Schu-mines and a bunch of dummy mines.
For example with the first game idea the US forces have to clear a route through a minefield. This can be largly unmarked so they don't see it coming. One of the organisers on the US side knows it is there and deliberately steps on a 'real' mine- thus revealing the mine field and scaring the crap out of the players in the process. The US troops must them sweep the minefield in order to get out of it- not knowing that all of the rest are actually dummies (for safety reasons- don't want one going off in peoples faces).

Against infantry AT guns would just be firing for effect really but we can have a rule that if you get caught out in the open then consider yourself blown up. However being a 37mm it could fire moscarts as canister rounds at close range. Against vehicles we will need to work out a system whereby when the vehicle is hit a signal can be used to detonate a small charge/smoke to simulate it being disabled. I think Smoke might be the safer & more realisitic option- can you get black smokes? The easiest way to do this might be to have the vehicle commander set it off after being informed of his destruction over the radio. Otherwise you would have the hazard of radio signals or long wires.

IR would work best for the 37mm, a electrically activated 2 minutes smoke would look the nuts, once the wasps see the thick white smoke, they could bail out of the tank, or take 5 out to fix it, whilst its vaulnerable to attack?

I'll just pop in here to say it's an unnecessary complication with IR/wireless (and a H&S liability too). As is planning for vehicles that might or might not be there. Standard procedure for battles is to have pyro (whether smoke or bang) fired by the vehicle commander as only he has eyes-on. If you were thinking of the 222 and you want to use the gas cannon/MG34 for effect then no pyros on the vehicles as it is carrying gas.

KISS guys! Unless you are going to script this event to the n'th degree and have marshals/non players in control then ditch all the 'wouldn't it be cool if...' stuff and concentrate on the basics. Think of the bazooka at St Lo - all that time and energy for an effect that wasn't even used in the game.

In any case, something to have a think about, at the real battle, the US artillery fell behind the advancing germans. As for shooting the tank, didnt realise that the gas turret was operational.

The mortar is a viable option, and probably a little bit more practical than a field gun and relying on the above.

Yes, Chomley is right.

What made the mortar good was that it was just a weapon. No special rules or objectives around it, it is just another thing that fires at the enemy.

what Yith said about anti vehicle mines just being some plastic thing that can be laid on the ground to stop movement until it is moved sounds good.

There is no way to do artillery barrages without it just being a sideshow of explosive. If I am just a player then I only find them a tedious distraction, having to organise such a thing would only make it more so.

Until someone says they are 100% certain that they are bringing a vehicle, I am writing around there being non there.

As for shooting the tank, didnt realise that the gas turret was operational.

It has the option to be, the MG will an AEG for airsoft use whilst the 20mm is gas firing but this can be removed. As CW said it would depend on what we wanted more- an operational main weapon or the ability to use pyro on the vehicle.

what Yith said about anti vehicle mines just being some plastic thing that can be laid on the ground to stop movement until it is moved sounds good.

The mine idea is fine for the confined route but in the more open areas vehicles can just go around them, so something else is needed I feel. The old trick of a grenade in front may be enough. However to me these would only disable, not destroy so we'd still need some way for them to be destroyed. One that doesn't involve an over enthusiastic player dropping a grenade inside.

There is no way to do artillery barrages without it just being a sideshow of explosive. If I am just a player then I only find them a tedious distraction, having to organise such a thing would only make it more so.

I disagree, I think artillery can be incorporated sucessfully and add to the experience. I just think it is perhaps beyond any of us to do it.

Until someone says they are 100% certain that they are bringing a vehicle, I am writing around there being non there.

I'm thinking along a similar vein. Although my scenario ideas mention alot of vehicles there is very little that relies upon them so objectives can easily be switched to something else with little detrimental effect to the plan. I think we just need to prepare for the 3 possibilities- no vehicles, some vehicles and more vehicles that we could realistically hope for judging by what was said at the weekend. Even if we get confirmations we should prepare for the worst and probably shouldn't announce anything so not to disappoint anyone. Plus it would be more fun watching peoples' faces as drive into the car park if we do get anything special.

The mortar is a viable option, and probably a little bit more practical than a field gun and relying on the above.

If you want to make one then a 37mm would still be nice to have as a prop if nothing else. A little OTT for a prop perhaps but nice to have.

what Yith said about anti vehicle mines just being some plastic thing that can be laid on the ground to stop movement until it is moved sounds good.

The mine idea is fine for the confined route but in the more open areas vehicles can just go around them,

The solution to that is to put them in the right place or to put more of them down.

Might need alot in the 'plain' though.
To destroy vehicles I still like the idea of using Webby's Bazooka & using the radio to call the hit to the crew. Crew then bail out making the vehicle looking as abandoned as possible (doors open, weapons skyward) and maybe pop smoke. Simple but effective (& looks good). This can only be done an already stationary vehicle though, for safety & simplicity - afterall the odds of a bazooka hit on a moving target are slim.

Might need alot in the 'plain' though.

Which of course makes it "not the right place"

afterall the odds of a bazooka hit on a moving target are slim.

Perhaps if a vehicle was being used, then the commander of the vehicle could chuck some grenades out of the top and whilst theyre fizzing, we fire the bazooka, looks like a rockets been fired, but the thermo thrown signifies the miss on the adjacent landscape? shame is its too scripted