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Airborne BARs

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jonsteele
(@jonsteele)
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I've been trying to find if US paras ever jumped with BARs. I can find lots of models of PIR troopers holding BARs but no definite evidence that it was used by them or that they jumped with it.

Anyone any views or proof one way or the other?

Jon Steele
1st Sgt, Fox Company, 506th, 101st
OC 1 Squadron - RAF Regiment Living History Group!


Support our troops!

 
Posted : 06/03/2009 2:20 pm
(@scaleyback)
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aparently they didnt use them, they were too heavy and had a low mag capacity, they prefered the 1919 browning.

 
Posted : 06/03/2009 2:21 pm
jonsteele
(@jonsteele)
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I was coming to that conclusion myself - obsolutley no photos around at all.

I don't really get the idea of the BAR - who thought 20 rnd mags would make a support weapon (probably the same person who thought the L86 LSW was a good idea!)?

Jon Steele
1st Sgt, Fox Company, 506th, 101st
OC 1 Squadron - RAF Regiment Living History Group!


Support our troops!

 
Posted : 06/03/2009 3:30 pm
(@scaleyback)
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yep, twenty rounds in a weapon that weighs twenty lb's :rofl:

 
Posted : 06/03/2009 3:39 pm
(@lardassmonkey)
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The BAR wasn't designed as a support weapon in the true sense of the meaning. As the name suggests it was intended to be used more like a rifle (they could be fitted with bayonets!) with an automatic capability. It was designed to fired from a standing position ,usually from the hip, for keeping the enemies heads down whilst advancing across no mans land. Thats why it had such a low ammo capacity- it had to remain portable.

US Paratroopers didn't use them as they were too heavy to jump with as a personal weapon and the space in a drop canister was better utilised by taking a M1919 instead. They were used by Glider infantry however as they didn't have worry about the weight and some probably found their way into paratrooper hands (like in the game Brothers in Arms).

 
Posted : 06/03/2009 4:17 pm
Steiner
(@steiner_1609088194)
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The BAR wasn't designed as a support weapon in the true sense of the meaning...

Correct, but the US military in their wisdom designated the BAR as the support weapon in the standard rifle squad. In addition to the 20-round mag, it did not have an easily-changable barrel, so was an utter failure in the support role. Despite the advantage of the semi-auto Garand, the use of the BAR vs the MG42 in the German rifle squad was just one of the reason that the Huns kicked the Yanks' Arsch in typical infantry combat. However, simply retreating and calling in overwhelming artillary and air support usually did the trick. :roll:


You've got nothing to ein, zwei, drei, vier

 
Posted : 06/03/2009 5:53 pm
(@scaleyback)
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peace through superior fire power will always work. :rofl:

 
Posted : 06/03/2009 5:58 pm
spiers
(@spiers)
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Makes absolutely no difference historically but in the Market Garden episode of BoB when they attack Nuenen there is a para with a BAR. I don't know where I've heard it but in terms of jumping with them it was a no but they were picked up when on the ground from various sources (dead soldiers).

Show me a man who will jump out of an airplane, and I'll show you a man who will fight!
General James M. Gavin

CRY HAVOC AND LET LOOSE THE DOGS OF WAR

 
Posted : 07/03/2009 10:44 am
webby
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I would imagine that would have just been for Hollywood, in BOB the dude even has the bipod on it which was usually ditched due to the massive weight it brought (mine is even very front heavy and thats only ally)

Same guy fires the BAR at the sniper in the building with the caved in roof when they attack foy, although you could summise that he took it off 1 of the fleeing infantry guys when they 1st move into the area.

 
Posted : 06/04/2009 10:43 am
 Yith
(@yith)
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According to the great and all knowing Wiki... ;)

It was late but saw some service in WWI

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1918_Brow ... atic_Rifle

 
Posted : 06/04/2009 10:58 am
101stairborne-506
(@101stairborne-506)
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i havnt read the link on wiki, but being designed in ww1, they had an attachement to the belt where you rest the butt of the bar on the hip obviously then walk whilst firing,

Now a 'namsofter. I have an M72 L.A.W. for sale for 110 posted, PM if interested.

 
Posted : 16/04/2009 5:54 pm
webby
(@webby)
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Yeah!

M1 wouldnt have achieved much more fire superiorority over the K98.

K98 - Muzzle Veolcity 2,493f/s - Effective range 500m
M1 Garand - Muzzle Velocity 2,800f/s - Effective range 457m

Although less powerful, the K98 has over 40m effective range over its counterpart, 40m is a fair distance in a battle.

Ability to put a number of rounds on target is somewhat waivered if the rounds do not reach, or when they do, they do not at lethal velocities.

 
Posted : 20/04/2009 8:39 am
(@wladek)
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Not to mention their overawing industrial power and communications does render the individual comparisons slightly redundant. How many howitzers one phonecall from a Lt away? A pretty effective system of communication between the Infantry, tanks, artillery and even fighter-bomber support.

Keep their heads down until everything else in the army blows the crap out of them... Now how do we represent that in an airsoft game? :?

 
Posted : 20/04/2009 6:04 pm
spiers
(@spiers)
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I know which part you mean it's during the assault on Neunen and BARs were picked up off the ground or out of gliders, this is how Airborne troops ended up with them.

Show me a man who will jump out of an airplane, and I'll show you a man who will fight!
General James M. Gavin

CRY HAVOC AND LET LOOSE THE DOGS OF WAR

 
Posted : 20/04/2009 7:07 pm
webby
(@webby)
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From where though, US infantry hadn't ventured that far into Holland by the point thats shown.. I think it's just Hollywood! The same guy has the BAR when they assauly Foy too, still got the bipod and carry handle on (which they would have probably taken off due to weight as mentioned before) However likely to have been taking off 1 of the retreating infantrymen on the way into the Bastonge area

 
Posted : 24/04/2009 12:12 pm
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