Sten GBB - how hard...
 
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Sten GBB - how hard can it be ?

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(@no1_sonuk)
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There are a few guys here with the know-how and access to the right tools to do a good job.
I think the main issue is the time involved.
Add to that the "all-weather" ability (GBBs suffer in cold weather) and simplicity of electric, and GBB takes a back seat.
There are, however, a growing number of non-pistol GBBs becoming available.

I think the biggest issue with the Sten is, and always will be, the horizontal magazine. That presents a massive problem for the normal GBB that relies on gravity keeping liquid gas out of the mechanism. One way around that could possibly be a gas reservior somewhere else (with the by-product that standard AEG mags could be used), but where to put it with enough space to make it worthwhile?

 
Posted : 11/12/2009 12:52 am
Joseph Porta
(@joseph-porta)
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i ran a mini uzi on co2 from a 32oz gas bottle. i just had a line from the bottle to the bottom of the mag.

i only skirmished it once on a site that allowed any gun at any fps , (the only time i chronoed it , the thing did over 560fps in december)
it was great for plinking, it smashed bottles in the garden, and made a lovely noise shredding tin cans.

alas my uzi only works on single shot, cock every time now. with no restriction in the magazine the power was too much and it wrecked the innards after a couple of thousand rounds, so the thing wont reload on automatic or semi, you need to pull the bolt back every shot.

MAKE SURE YOU REGULATE THE GAS FLOW IN SOME WAY, dont just take it straight from the bottle like i did :roll:
though the recoil was quite simmilar to a real smg :good:

the concept for a large gas supply works and is good, as long as you dont mind having a bottle and line hidden in your webbing, cooldown and gas capacity arnt a problem even in winter

"Take that you rotton helping of strawberry flan!"
Joseph Porta to "strawberrys and cream", in the sven hassel book ,ogpu prison

 
Posted : 11/12/2009 1:29 am
Kermit
(@kermit)
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DaytonaGun could build you a gas blowback STEN using the ESCORT system they use in all their conversions. Won't be cheap though....

When we were a Kingdom it was run by a King
When we were an Empire it was run by an Empress
Now we're a country we're run by a..........

 
Posted : 11/12/2009 1:59 am
 Yith
(@yith)
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AEGs are:

More reliable
More consistent
More modifiable
Easier to maintain
Easier to get spare parts for
Don't have gas tanks (etc).
Cheaper to run

Gas guns are:
more realistic sounding.
have nice recoil

It's not suprising that AEGs win for most people.

BTW, I had a play with one of the new TM M4s a few weeks ago and it had quite nice recoil and sound... reminded me a lot of my old KSC M11. So quite possibly that last advantage of Gas guns is about to be taken by AEGs as well.

 
Posted : 11/12/2009 9:48 am
(@no1_sonuk)
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One of the ideas that's been rolling around in my head for a while is an "electrically-cocked springer". The idea is that the gun is essentially a springer, but the mechanism is recocked by a gearbox after every shot. Microprocessor control of the motor could stop the motor from functioning before the first shot (need to manually cock the first shot), and stop firing after the last (doesn't detect a BB leaving the barrel, so doesn't re-cock).

That lends itself more to guns that dry-fire when the mag's empty (like Sten), rather than hold the bolt open (like Thompson), and full-auto only. Though if there's room for it, a Sten-like disconnector is quite simple.

The electronics are easy for me, but the mechanics, not so.

 
Posted : 11/12/2009 11:27 am
 Yith
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Er... sounds like an AEG to me.

 
Posted : 11/12/2009 11:37 am
(@no1_sonuk)
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I didn't say it wasn't. However, standard AEGs don't have a mechanical sear - after the trigger is pulled they cock then fire. My idea would make it fire then cock. Some sniper rifles do this (PSG1 I think does), but they just interrupt the normal firing cycle and hold on the anti-reversal latch. When the trigger is pulled, the motor restarts and pulls the piston to the gap in the sector gear.

A gun based on my idea could still use an AEG-like gearbox, but there would be a mechanical sear to stop the piston after the sector gear has released it. Such a setup would allow the gun to be used as a springer if the battery goes flat.

 
Posted : 11/12/2009 12:15 pm
 Yith
(@yith)
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I see...

BTW, there has been AEGs that can be used as springers already. I've forgotten who made them, but they didn't catch on.

It might have been KSC...

Ah yes it was:

http://airsoftglobal.com/product_info.p ... 0166f82e1d

 
Posted : 11/12/2009 12:17 pm
(@anonymous)
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There is also a micro-processor that will do the exact thing (assuming 'pre-cocking' is the function you are after). The idea being to take out all trigger lag. I believe it is a new version of the 'cheetah' which can be programed

 
Posted : 11/12/2009 12:25 pm
(@no1_sonuk)
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@ Yith: OK. I'm not surprised it's already been tried.

@ Prophet: "Pre-cocking" isn't what I was after per se. Just a more realistic action without the GBB hassle.

 
Posted : 11/12/2009 12:59 pm
 Yith
(@yith)
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One of the things I always hated about normal airsoft is the "poke the gun through a tiny gap and just hold the trigger down waving it around" tactic - games I played in use to ban hicaps for that reason becuase games turned into which side could pour the most BBs against the other sides baricades hoping to get a lucky shot.

If you want to avoid that, then there's no need to change the guns that much. Just introduce a low ammo limit and bobs-your-uncle...

You don't get much spray and pray in our games with just 300rnds per player.

 
Posted : 11/12/2009 1:40 pm
slick63
(@slick63)
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Not my cup of tea but here ya go...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-l6COw0atY

 
Posted : 11/12/2009 1:40 pm
(@no1_sonuk)
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Interesting. I wonder why they went to all that effort, then didn't make the bolt work the right way round...

 
Posted : 11/12/2009 3:59 pm
 Yith
(@yith)
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Limitations of the system I expect...

Oh and they could have cut the cocking handle to the right length as well!

 
Posted : 11/12/2009 4:12 pm
(@no1_sonuk)
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Oh and they could have cut the cocking handle to the right length as well!

Yup. Looks to me like it's made to original part specs, but not taking into account that half of it goes inside the bolt.

 
Posted : 11/12/2009 6:33 pm
(@no1_sonuk)
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A Sten would need midcaps and lowcaps anyway - standard hicap mechanisms need to be vertical to work properly.
That said, how does a P90 hicap work?

 
Posted : 11/12/2009 10:09 pm
 Yith
(@yith)
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That said, how does a P90 hicap work?

Badly... ;)

Seriously... they have a piston-type thing that pushes the bbs into the mag winder.

The ones I had jammed all the time. Apparently there may be a knack to getting them to work. I never found it and since my P90 days are long gone I expect I never will!

 
Posted : 11/12/2009 10:13 pm
Barrie and Anne
(@barrie-and-anne)
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Back when the Viva Sten came out and just before the AGM, Enemy at the Gates of Airsoft World (I think it was him anyway) mentioned someone might be producing a gas sten and was testing the water to see if there'd be any support for it. It's buried in one of the Viva or Agm sten threads I think.

 
Posted : 12/12/2009 12:30 pm
Pete_59
(@pete_59)
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Ashi made a sterling which uses an external gas feed, here's my one.



 
Posted : 12/12/2009 5:00 pm
(@no1_sonuk)
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Considering what TM did with the Glock 18 AEP, has anyone adapted that system yet?

The Patchett/Sterling would be an ideal candidate for that, I should think.

 
Posted : 14/12/2009 1:06 am
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