[Sticky] Operation Iskra

No lack of enthusiasm. Lack of keeping up with posts. I'm in come what may.

I've been slow reading up on everything. Going over everything again then will update.

I'm loving the artillery idea as regards relaying the artillery fire through a forward observer. Very cool.

Do we have any idea on the make up and numbers of the squads?

I'm not sure regarding any additional missions. Pilot recovery was important for both sides if an aircraft was shot down near the lines. If we're short we could dress one if the Mannequins up. I've got cloth for a parachute. Could be a camera/Intel recovery mission. It depends if you want more than what we have.

2nd Shock and 8th Army will have the lions share of 'dakka', but the Leningrad Front did provide considerable muscle. Their artillery preparation for the offensive was longer than the Volkhov Front and backed up by Baltic Fleet heavy artillery.

£25 seems very reasonable.

Props wise, anything specific we don't have?

Looking at the full offensive and the story behind Iskra, I just wanted to raise a few issues for debate.

For Operation Iskra, 67th Army on the Leningrad Front was to drive east, towards Sinyavino, then hook south to open a corridor in the German line, meeting with the 2nd Shock and 8th Armies from the Volkhov Front somewhere in the middle. This would be along the line Sinyavino - Priladozhsky - Putilovo south of Lake Ladoga.

Both Soviet fronts laid down a large preparatory artillery bombardment. Leningrad Front specifically, had access to the big guns' of the Baltic Fleet and fired virtually continuously for two hours, longer than the Volkhov Front to the east.

If we run the scenario historically on the button, the Germans will be on the back foot at the start. The Soviet armies on either side of the German line will both be on the offensive. That will change as the German High Command bring in reinforcements from quiet sectors of the front-line, setting up ad-hoc Kampfgruppes to push the Soviets back.

So, potentially, the morning could see the Soviet side take the lead, whilst the afternoon should see the German side reverse that and grind the Soviet offensive to a halt.

On that basis then I'd raise the two points for discussion:

1) Leningrad Front - The worst of the starvation of the city was over by January 1943. Street Cars had been running again since May the previous year and the food ration had gone up. A grim way of putting it, but simply so many had died in the city from starvation, that the the incoming supplies finally stabilised against the weight of population remaining. Leningrad Front contributed substantially to Iskra, in terms of heavy artillery and infantry assaults along the line. I'd be inclined to go easier on the ammo restrictions for the Leningrad forces. Permit full loads for the infantry, but reflect a badly hampered supply process in getting it to the front.

2) Soviet Partisan Unit - I'd do away with these altogether and simply have regular Red Army units. The Leningrad Narodnoe Opolcheniye Army (People's Militia Army) had been consumed in to the Red Army on the Leningrad Front by 1942. Partisan activity to the south of Lake Ladoga was on nothing like the same scale as further behind the lines. You could have a unit with a mish-mash of kit to reflect a militia unit absorbed into the 67th Army.

So Iskra is a tale of two Soviet front lines converging on a large network of German fortified positions and dug in artillery. For the Soviet side it will be a case of a slow grind through wire entanglements, minefields and heavily defended trenches and bunkers. For the Germans it will be an initial case of being caught between an anvil and a hammer until the situation is stabilised. I don't know how you'd want to reflect that; maybe both Soviet sides attack first thing in the morning then limit one Soviet front to consolidate in the afternoon, allowing the German side to hit back?

Just some ideas.

Oh, map added to show what I'm babbling on about a bit better!

Right here you go then partner creative challenge. If you can come up with a story line as the background info teaser stuff and maybe a list of objectives so we can see where your thoughts patterns are going.

Maybe used the wrong terminology for the partisans. Worker Militia will be the more apt. Been put in as I still there is a lot of people who want to attend but will not source kit.

numbers wise think you have to have a 20 a side as possible with option to be able to do some more advertising but for that we need info up.

Nice Idea's Gareth the only trouble is that would be a lot like our last game with the Germans on the back foot and the reinforced Germans counter attacking later in the day. So I don't think we need to try and recreate the offensive accurately.

I like the idea of both sides having there own missions and tasks to achieve but we need to be careful to coordinate set piece battles i.e. the Russian assault on the water tower or else they may find it undefended while the Germans are off doing other tasks. I don't want to have to keep a force back defending it too long or like last time defending the batteries people will start getting to restless.

The artillery bombardment is a good 'activity' for the Germans, it does not even have to hit anything in game terms, we can borrow Russell's artillery spotter and phone in coordinates. The gun team hopefully can fire a salvo of crow scarers as long as Dadio makes the sabots for me in time.

How much do we want to be doing activities and how much will we be controlling cp's? presumably if we make up some activities to keep people busy and patrol and react to Soviet capture of CP's as they occur?

Cost wise I think £25 is fine provided that covers our pyro cost. I think people would be prepared to pay £30/£35 for a game. £25 is very cheap and if we are borrowing kit off Josh will wind him up as he hates the idea of people undercutting him by so much.

Shall we draw up a list of some more tasks?

Right I'll start work on that tonight, then feed it back to you to see where you all stand.

Yeah, I mean as regards the workers militia, I don't think it's a stretch to have a unit in a mash up of civilian uniforms. When they say the Workers Militia were merged into the Leningrad Front regulars there's not that much I can find that suggests they weren't just kitted out in whatever they were wearing when they enlisted, so it's not beyond the realms of possibility they were still in civvies with a white table cloth wrapped around them for cover.

Twenty aside sounds good as a start point.

On another point are we all going to Kasseriene? We could disappear to one of the side rooms for a bit and thrash out any problems/idea's?

Tim, an extra mission I suggested to Kieran was pilot recovery. This can work as a mission for either side. Just kit one of the mannequins out in a black boiler suit, dash a dust sheet up in the trees to recreate the chute, then inform both sides they need to converge on the position and recover air recon photos from the body.

You can alter the scenario to reflect a given point of the offensive. You could even set it towards the end of Iskra where the line is stabilising and both sides are consolidating ground, attacking individual strong points and positions along the way.

I'll be at Kasserine, mate.

Tim, an extra mission I suggested to Kieran was pilot recovery. This can work as a mission for either side. Just kit one of the mannequins out in a black boiler suit, dash a dust sheet up in the trees to recreate the chute, then inform both sides they need to converge on the position and recover air recon photos from the body.
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Like it, we need to make use of Herman's friends

Really liking the back and forth ideas guys.

Will not be at Kasserine but how are we all fixed for site visit soon?

As for Martin I have had message with information that his wife is still quite ill so he will drop in whenever he can.

Nice Idea's Gareth the only trouble is that would be a lot like our last game with the Germans on the back foot and the reinforced Germans counter attacking later in the day. So I don't think we need to try and recreate the offensive accurately.

Agree Tim thinks it better if we think of the game as a probably part of the overall operation that way we can tailor everything. I mean if we were going to recreate the battle we would need shite loads of artillery

I like the idea of both sides having there own missions and tasks to achieve but we need to be careful to coordinate set piece battles i.e. the Russian assault on the water tower or else they may find it undefended while the Germans are off doing other tasks. I don't want to have to keep a force back defending it too long or like last time defending the batteries people will start getting to restless.

Was thinking that as part of the supply through the line idea there could be extra that officer on city side of the line could have to be escorted over to main Russian HQ where time for assault on the water plane will be planned. That way we can then relay that info to yourself or whoever Tim and then you can decide on forces at the water plant so hopefully there will be limited down time etc.

The artillery bombardment is a good 'activity' for the Germans, it does not even have to hit anything in game terms, we can borrow Russell's artillery spotter and phone in coordinates. The gun team hopefully can fire a salvo of crow scarers as long as Dadio makes the sabots for me in time.

Set this on up as really one for the Gebirgs as I think they would like the whole unit set up of carrying it out.

How much do we want to be doing activities and how much will we be controlling cp's? presumably if we make up some activities to keep people busy and patrol and react to Soviet capture of CP's as they occur?

Would maybe like to do a 50/50 split. can also use it as a time opportunity for refreshments etc.

Cost wise I think £25 is fine provided that covers our pyro cost. I think people would be prepared to pay £30/£35 for a game. £25 is very cheap and if we are borrowing kit off Josh will wind him up as he hates the idea of people undercutting him by so much.

We have to draw up the costs list I think so we need to agree a number of objectives price for them but leave a little pot should we want to add in anything.

Shall we draw up a list of some more tasks?

The more tasks we can come up with the better. but we will pick and choose for the game 'X' number. We can always have the rest in the bank for future.

Just a revised list of objectives that I had based my game plan around plus ideas that have been floated. -- attachment is not available --

Hi guys,

just catching up with where we are with this, hoping to chip in a bit more soon. I did have a brief chat with Tim about Iskra at Kasserine.

A couple of things:

a) yes, I'm fine doing Russian command for this.
b) it is fine having lots of missions, but it is a big site with the potential for poor comms between the organisers and I can see things easily going 'off script'. So, along with the missions, why don't we aim to have, say, three big set piece actions at set times during the day. So we get everyone back to a rally point for a set time and kick off from there for an hour or so. Say 11.00, 13.00 and 15.00. If we've got those set times (could have more) then at least we'll know where we are.

Anyway, I have a bit of reading to do...

Cheers
Martin

Gareth is writing up something at the moment so once we get to see that then I think we can make a decision. Obviously the final game plan does not need to be finalized just yet. But to get the storyline and booking threads etc. up and running is fast becoming a priority.

Apologies for the delay on it. Extremely busy the last few days.

I also had a word with Gav, we can use one of his dummies for the parachute thing, I will make up a mock camera

Also Gav is going to make me some sabots so I can use the IG75 to fire mortar rounds and crow scarers, so we can do an artillery mission using russels spotter, telephones and firing salvo's of crow scarers for a bit of fun.

Great stuff

With the down pilot mission. just to put a bit extra on the Germans maybe have to retrieve the body as well as all the paperwork/camera? Could maybe write in its a high ranking officer and German command don't want the body being used for propaganda etc. Have to stick some rank markings on his jump suit I am sure there will be someone with access to a stretcher too.

Was also thinking with the guns. As part of the set dressing could have a few Russian propaganda posters, at the bottom of each will be a reference code or word etc. That is relayed through the various parts. means that there is no confusion for the guy dropping the charge in place and also the spotters will have to get in close enough to read the reference.

OK, with the current missions it looks like the only one which may need a 'set piece' approach (with a time) is the battle for the water towers, and possibly pilot retrieval, the others can be interleaved like the ones 34th do.

I haven't quite got my head around the artillery game/rules yet but I'm sure it will be fun?!

Am I right in thinking we'll just do small arms ammo as limited reloads (at HQ under orders?) with odd stashes of ammo around the site?

wrt Russian uniforms, they can really be very, very minimal - just a jacket or greatcoat and hat with any old trousers and boots and a bag to carry stuff in. How many people need to borrow stuff? They might even be able to put together something passable from what they've got - a GS shirt untucked looks quite like a gynmastorka, and hats can be pretty well anything - piltokas, ushankas, flat caps, maybe even US M1 helmets at a pinch.

I've got a spare padded jacket and an M69 jacket, we may have some other stuff between us and I'd happily do a 'looks like' guide for Russians on the cheap, but if it is only a couple of people then we may be able find some things for them.

Cheers
Martin

I might have a fair amount of Russian kit lurking around that's suitable. At the very least I two sets of spare M69 trousers.