Good, that's what I figured.
Okay... all sounds good to me.
Only thing I'm not too happy with is the thing about steve being the person to take or give out armbands. I'm not sure how that will work, or how we'll avoid tricky situations.
Yers never fecking happy ! 
If Steve hands em out he can keep an eye on who's doing what with them . It can be "as well as" leaving them at the HQ/Regen . It will hopefully stop players carrying them in their pockets, putting them on in the field to have a few shots and them taking them off and calmly walking away . Although that may be "realistic", from a player point of view it would be massively unfair and will only cause bad feeling among the Germans at having Teflon civilians in play . It does mean they will have to find Steve to do it, which may limit his play , hence have both options 
.
Well we will make it clear to the DRWs that they can't do that! So thats not a problem.
I'm more concerned about say Steve hiding in a building. Then a load of DRWs walking into it, then putting on arm bands, given out by Steve and then dashing out to attack nearby germans.
Thats not what I intended at all!
The way I looked at this the when the DRWs were combattants they were effectively different people completely from when they were civilians.
I also perceive a problem of DRWs trying to find Steve on the site and not being able to find him. If he was the only one to have an armband left then this could be a problem.
The more i think about it the more I think we should just allow them to change over at the regen. i.e. not even at the HQ.
Otherwise I think we have a sound set of rules. What we need then is to write a set of "rules of engagement" for the Axis players when dealing with civilians. Also a set for the DRWs.
Nah, Steve won't give them out at inappropriate times will he!
DRW's ARE civilians, they have a secret identity.
If they can't find Steve (bear in mind they can go more or less wherever they please as civilians) then they are imbeciles with no gumption or will to fight and don't deserve an armband 
! (But will they be able to find the regen - hmmm, tough one!)
The more I think of it the more I like Steve's pivotal role in marshalling the DRW's and being in charge of switching their identity. Puts US back in control.
I'm concerned by this.
If civvies can change to DRWs at any point on the site then it will make the axis players over-edgy.
If DRWs can change cos they can't find Steve, which is very likely at Pheonix when they don't have radios, then we may as well not bother at all!
Well we will make it clear to the DRWs that they can't do that! So thats not a problem.
Over optimitismit IMHO Needs to be transparent and policed . People will cheat if they think they can get away with it / get over excited
I also perceive a problem of DRWs trying to find Steve on the site and not being able to find him. If he was the only one to have an armband left then this could be a problem
This is a potential problem, hence have some with Steve and leave some at Regen and have more armbands than players. Steve is supposed to be leading them though , so if they can't find their commander then ....?
I'm more concerned about say Steve hiding in a building. Then a load of DRWs walking into it, then putting on arm bands, given out by Steve and then dashing out to attack nearby germans
More the reason to have an organiser doing this , in that he can make sure it's kept sensible rather than doing that sort of nonsense . If Steve comesa in civvies this will be negated to a great degree because they could all walk out of the building as civvies and go eslewhere to don armbands. Plus I thought they were leaving their weapons at HQ, hopefully away from the front line and maybe out of LOS of the Germans?
Otherwise I think we have a sound set of rules. What we need then is to write a set of "rules of engagement" for the Axis players when dealing with civilians. Also a set for the DRWs
I think that where we're headed, but they need to be simple, fair to both sides , and easily enforced.
Well we will make it clear to the DRWs that they can't do that! So thats not a problem.
Over optimitismit IMHO Needs to be transparent and policed . People will cheat if they think they can get away with it / get over excited
They will not cheat as this is something that will be obvious to all. It will be made clear that they will never be allowed back at a CiA event if they do!
I also perceive a problem of DRWs trying to find Steve on the site and not being able to find him. If he was the only one to have an armband left then this could be a problem
This is a potential problem, hence have some with Steve and leave some at Regen and have more armbands than players. Steve is supposed to be leading them though , so if they can't find their commander then ....?
Even if you got say twice as many armbands as we need, then we may end up with it happening. Also more armbands handed out = more chance of them being lost.
I'm more concerned about say Steve hiding in a building. Then a load of DRWs walking into it, then putting on arm bands, given out by Steve and then dashing out to attack nearby germans
More the reason to have an organiser doing this , in that he can make sure it's kept sensible rather than doing that sort of nonsense . If Steve comesa in civvies this will be negated to a great degree because they could all walk out of the building as civvies and go eslewhere to don armbands. Plus I thought they were leaving their weapons at HQ, hopefully away from the front line and maybe out of LOS of the Germans?
Yes having Steve doing this is good, since he is trustworthy!
I suggest that a civilian found or seen to be carrying a weapon can still be shot.
I'm still not too happy about the idea of a load of DRWs suddenly popping into existence on the site. They're not paratroopers you know.
Otherwise I think we have a sound set of rules. What we need then is to write a set of "rules of engagement" for the Axis players when dealing with civilians. Also a set for the DRWs
I think that where we're headed, but they need to be simple, fair to both sides , and easily enforced.
It seems to be getting more compilcated though, especially with this stuff about steve holding arm bands. When changing was only allowed at regen it was a lot simpler and less open to bullshit.
* Sighs *
Very, very simple.
DRW CAN pop up anywhere, they are a secret resistance army! But hey, we are not letting them do that!
Steve is in control of his army, he gives out the armbands.
No idea why there is all this talk of cheating, if someone gets it wrong we can sort it. It won't be cheating that we have to watch it is mis-understanding/forgetting rules.
Doesn't matter if armbands are lost.
Why would you need loads of armbands? They can only be put on/taken off at the regen or with Steve. If Steve has run out they will have to go to regen and vice-versa.
* rapidley loosing will to live * 
I'm sure a 5 minute chat rather than a 100 post thread will sort this one out !
Why would you need loads of armbands? They can only be put on/taken off at the regen or with Steve. If Steve has run out they will have to go to regen and vice-versa.
Its more a case of regen and hq running out cos steve's got them all... not the other way around!
* rapidley loosing will to live *
I'm sure a 5 minute chat rather than a 100 post thread will sort this one out !
Yup agreed.
But we are almost there with this one now! 
To a very large degree this is all academic. By the end of the morning the DRW's will have got bored of being sneaky, being stopped, and playing out a role and will be fighting under Steve's command and shooting the shit out of the Germans. Which is fine.
Well they may be its true. I wouldn't like to guarantee that will definately be the case.
Remember at least one of the DRWs (Joe) turned up with only a 1911 to BotB and just took pictures.
To a very large degree this is all academic. By the end of the morning the DRW's will have got bored of being sneaky, being stopped, and playing out a role and will be fighting under Steve's command and shooting the shit out of the Germans. Which is fine.
Agree totally , still think we need a framework though, plus Steve can always task them to do otherwise.
Framework is good, Steve should be central to all that is DRW.
okay... lets stop discussion now then so that steve can get himself up to date with our ramblings and see what he thinks to the latest comments.
I'm happy to go with whatever he decides!
I like the idea of me carrying armbands and having some at regen.
The DRWs are going to have to think very carefully about how they move around the site and deploy themselves effectively.
To be honest I don't see them as being disparate wanderers who take pots shots. What I intend is that they gather intel and equipment (gold, art etc) in the morning then build up to an all out organised attack at some point before lunch then fight all afternoon. If that means they all pile into a building, arm up and deploy to fight then that's fine by me. If the Germans aren't savvy enough to spot all the civilians covertly congregating in one place then they'll get hammered!
I don't see much wrong with the DRW appearing suddenly within the German forces because this was an underground resistance that could have had caches within the occupied town.
If some of the DRWs then want to return to civilian duties they can, the Germans will have to be careful and pick their shots.
I kind of agree with Yith on the cheating front. We can try to limit it but we shouldn't plan the game around preventing it.
Good, that's sorted then.
Really don't think there will be any cheating. As I say, people may forget the rules, may ahve misunderstood etc.
(I remember playing at F&O with Yith a while back and we were playing completely by different rules to everyone else. Why? Cos we assumed and didn't listen to the brief 
)
(Plus I always forget everything or I'm too thick/old to grasp what the hell is going on...)
