Skorzeny Commandoes

er... but won't people know them then as soon as they get the MP badges?

Perhaps ask if any yanks would like to go on a special mission that requires a certain amount of roleplaying

Also maybe specify that they can't be 101st airborne?

Remind me of how you're thinking of doing this....

Are you going to take Yanks and give them MP brassards, then get them to work for the Krauts?

I think that if you post something on this before the event people will put two and two together. Skorzeny's actions are very well documented and I reckon most will be looking out for things like this.

Just trying to think of a way to do it without raising suspicion and without selecting family or friends to do it which would be unfair on the others.

Maybe just 'capturing' the first 4 or 5 people to get back to the safe zone then redeploying them for a portion of a game will work more effectively.

Not sure about this one.....

Problem is we need to get people we can trust to roleplay properly.

This probably means finding people we can trust to do it right. i.e. people we know.

Have to say, I'm completely baffled as to how this can work - very interested in the planned implementation. Anyone with an MP armband is going to be shot - TK or otherwise, I know I would!

Erm... Chomley. Its called roleplay.

You have to forget what you know outside the game.

Its that attitude that could ruin the idea and that attitude we have to avoid.

The difficult is how to avoid it mattering.

I just don't think most airsofters are into roleplay to that depth, that they would stop calling me Headshot or Steve; or indeed, that they would be willing forget, or disregard, what they know about history and suspend their disbelief to that extent.

This needs careful thought......

I have an idea..

Why don't I post a poll to see if players would like a limited amount of roleplay to be included in the event and see what answers we get?

Then we can look at those answers and it may help our decisions...

Rich, my point is I now know a bit about BotB (now) - a good deal of the players coming will have at least seen the film.

It's not the MP's 'roleplay' that is in question, hell that's easy - but what is the reaction of the other players going to be. It won't be a surprise, indeed it will be expected - what are they expected to do? Pretend and say 'Hi MPs, you don't look at all like Germans so we will just stand here and let you shoot us' - ain't going to happen...

As for polling a question about roleplay you had better make it cristal clear what you mean.

I know its not the MPs that will be the problem, but the other players.

The players will be allowed to shoot at them once they've been identified. Its really a case of remembering that your "character" doesn't necessarily know what you know. We do this all the time in airsoft anyway... so I don't know why people can't extend it that bit further... But to most people it seems an alien concept and I've even seen people get upset about having to do it.

This is what my poll would be about, to guage what type of player we have. Whether we do have quite a few who are Roleplayers and would enjoy having that in the game. Whether we have a few who don't roleplay, but would like to find out what its about. Or whether we have the type of player who gets into a strop as soon as they hear the word roleplay.

Personally I've been in games where people have roleplayed... fairly big games as well and they often go well. But only with people who understand it. If players are there just to win at all costs (which to be honest is not what airsoft is about) then its a lost cause.

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BTW : I see another problem... When we had a short game at the start it would easy enough to do this as when the MPs were found out they would be able to rejoin the game as normal US troops soon after.

Now we have the possibility of having a much longer first game then this really isn't going to work so well, as once they're rumbled (whether by a non-roleplay or roleplay method) then they won't be able to take part. In the gap between games we would be able make it clear to all attendees what had happened.

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I've just had a small brainwave. Rather than actually having MPs present in the game, why not just have rumours of their presence... This will add tension without actually having any roleplay issues. The marshalls could actually create the effect of the MPs, by switching signs around (etc) and its down to the US players to fix the problems that were created by the "virtual MPs".

It could even be as simple as the Marshalls providing key information on the Allied troops positions, plans and movements to the Axis leaders...

Maybe if an allied position is vacated the Marshalls could move in under the auspices of being an MP and destroy it?

Maybe even after the rumours have got out and some stuff has happened have a scenario where the MPs are known enemy right from the start and act as a totally seperate group. The Allied players would be expected to shoot them at this stage. This would be a late game event and could match up with the event at the fuel dump in the film.

I guess what I'm saying is that if people can't roleplay then design the scenarios so that the roleplaying is done for them already!

Knowing quite a few of the people who are attending, I'd hazard an educated guess that they'd be playing to win and wouldn't want roleplaying to get in the way of that.

See, to me airsoft is about trying to win, but in a fair and honorable manner, else what's the point? I know others think like that too, because if they didn't they'd reenact full time instead. I play to win, but if I don't I'm not upset. However, if I had to play in a way that meant I was unable to win I'd dislike it intently.

IMPORTANT QUESTION: Are we planning this game so that it's possible for either side to win or are we going to skew it so that it's a guaranteed German capitulation at end-ex?

I like the idea of your brainwave. Perhaps the solution to this would be to create the rumour then have an in-game sub-plot to search and destroy a comms person/base (could be a marshall or prop) who is part of the Skorzeny contingent.

I would LOVE to have actual turncoats but just can't come up with a surefire and fair way to make it work.

I had this scenario in one of my WW2 days, but as some players weren't in period uniform it was a simple case of re-taping (albeit badly) with the opposite side's tape colour, then removing it once their mission was complete.

There's no point in playing a game where the outcome is predetermined before we start.

However there is also place for making it harder for one side to win than the other.

This could be countered by having multiple scenarios... so the allies may win the last scenario, but the fact that the axis has won several scenarios before then can make that victory worthless...

Its basically about making the players feel good about their efforts and being faithful to the source material... i.e. not doing an injustice to the real events.

Anyway victory is an illusion...

Indeed, I echo what Steve says (so succinctly).

Rumour mongering is a great idea. You could even have four US with MP armbands on all day, the rest of the US are going to be mighty suspicious of them all day long. Thing is, they ARE MP's. As a malicious joke on those who know the story, complety lost on the clueless of course!

I think we might be getting carried away with too much plotting generally. Gucci gave us some very wise words at our meeting the other day and we would do well to heed them - plus we have Steve with all his practical experience. Some things would be fantastic to have and be mega-cool but at the end of the day this thing HAS to work, the more complicated it is the more likely it will go wrong. Steve and I have said that we don't mind not playing and keep the game on track - let's not make it harder than it need be because it will just end up pants.

As for game outcome? No harm in forcing a game or two if we have to - i.e. it leads on to something else. But the overall outcome should be determined by the players - after all, in the Battle of the Ardennes scenario our day's game forms but a small part of it - in the real battle German were clearly 'victors' in some parts whatever the overall outcome. No one would enjoy a day where the odds were so completely stacked against them they hadn't a hope.

Jeez guys what a response !

A few answers

1 Both sides can win , the numbers will make it a bit harder for the Germans , but both sides can win . When you see the scenario V2 this will make more sense as there are multiple objectives to decide between .

2 The only people who know about the MP armbands today are us four . Now if you specifically tell your troops then it may spoil the game somewhat . The four of us will only know what both sides objectives are , again , you can spill all the beans and have a dull day , or help your troops work it out as it goes along. Comes back to my point about being organisers there to help everyone have a cracking day , or just being players designing this soley for ourselves.
There is the following specific lines in the Allied orders :-

"OSS indicates that German commandos wearing US uniforms may be operating in forward areas . The precise nature of their operations is not yet understood, it is expected that they will be used in a reconnaissance or 5th column role. Unit commanders must therefore ensure that security is strictly enforced ."

Which is a big hint, coupled with peoples knowledge and if they've seen the film , should help identify whats going on. This is supposed to be a sophisticated game , not a "skirmish in silly kit" to quote someone else . The commandos were a big part of the Botb legend, plus it only happens in Game 1 .

The reason I wanted to sort this out before hand is that it will take a lot of roleplay , and not everyone is into that . If we draw out the first four dead yanks they might think 'ah sod this' and bugger off , which would be a shame . If we can get a few players signed up maybe friend ans family , prepared to keep stumm then it should work well . Bear in mind their mission will be sneaky beaky stuff not joining in the german assualt. It may give the US troops at the back something to do as well . I don't expect anyone ot turn a blind eye ot it , the commandos will have to take their cahnces like everyone else. However bear in mind quite a few booked in won't know each other, and so the paranoia should mount quite quickly !

I suggest we work through the revised scenarios on Thursday and take it from there.

PS for the record , I don't think winning or loosing is really important , this event is as much about recreating a feeling and atmosphere beyond your average days skirmish , with plots and plans that people who know the Battle ( and I think there'll be a few) can recognise. Otherwise it's just another skirmish like all the rest . I want people on both sides to feel they've been through the Bulge , thats my success criteria .

Guy, I think you missed the point. I beleive the general consensus is that we would need to trust the whole of the allied side to roleplay if we went down the route of having the commandos as real players and that would cause us major hassle.

I've not missed the point, I know what I have in mind !

This is a simple thing that is being blown out of proporton. It's worth trying, if it's pants on the day it will not make a big deal and we can drop it very easily . The main thing is that we find some yanks prepared to give it a go .

"trust the whole of the allied side to roleplay" -frankly- no we don't .

Don't tell em exactly whats going on, give em some hints, stand back and enjoy the confusion . Exactly like the reality . Once their cover is blown they will get taken out very quickly ....exactly like the reality . QED

commandos sorted - webby, orky & joe will do the deed.

flash as fook...

ooo that means I need to sort out some blue scarves!

Sehr Gut!

I should be making some mortars this weekend
I'm also needing to write up V2 , I haven't forgotten just been really busy .

Webby is going to try to find time to make an M6 bazooka for the US - may not be able to bring it into the scenario but it will be a useful prop.

Let me know what signs need doing Guy - don't want a last minute panic!