44 pattern webbing - where to find it?

you can get most of it here http://www.sentimentaljourney.co.uk/sj/ ... 09m045i351 however you may find difficulty getting a water bottle and holder

Hi all,

Seems I have no trouble finding 37 pattern webbing, but does anyone know where I can find some 44 pat? I know it was basically an unsuccessful design, but my collection won't be complete without at least one set.

Thanks
Ian

Quite the opposite actually.

It was very succesful and used in tropical theatres up until the 80s as it was great in that theatre. It only didnt get phased into the european armies as we had vast quantities of 37 pattern to use up and the war ended before 44 pattern could get to the troops.

But it wasnt made in great numbers as post korea it was tropical use only so really only on issue to lads in far east postings or jungle training.

Equally a lot of it was just burnt in theatre rather than shipping gunked up jungle webbing back. Even when 58 pattern was standard a lot of lads used 44 components as they were awesome, most notably the water bottle and carrier... it was very fashionable to use those right up until the 90s.

My set of 58 has a 44 pattern canteen and holder as its easier to use and you get a metal mug you can heat up with it unlike the plastic 58 pattern one.

As a design its a lot better than 37 as it sits well, the weight is spread better, it shrinks less when wet, absorbs less water and you can comfortably wear it with the belt unclipped. The ammo pouches also have two tab closures (much better than one button) and the bayonet is in a more practical place.... all in all a very good design for the time.

Oh and expect to pay uk gbp £50 or more for a basic set. It's getting quite expensive with individual pieces going for up to £20

You can get a belt, yoke and pair of pouches from Sentimental Journey, (the link I posted), for £30.30 plus postage

indeed but you really need a mug and carrier and thats going to cost you about £20.

I've got two on my set as it was pretty much standard to have two in the jungle.

Only one at this point as i still had to get another one. This is early malayan conflict kit

Note also that there are a lot of 'copies' (ie foreign-made, not Brit issue) floating around, which tend to be an almost blue-green and a slightly thicker canvas, same goes for the SF ammo pouches. The copies are often painted up to disguise their origins and/or are in far too good a condition for their 'age', although there are always exceptions to the rule ...........

Interesting, thanks for the info guys.

The reason I wrote "unsuccessful" is because I've read that in many webbing reference books (Khaki Drill and Jungle Green and Brayley's "British Web Equipment of the Two World Wars". Both make mention of how the webbing, after trials had improved it, became as heavy and bulky as 37 pattern!

Will try the Sentimental Journey supplier, just hope these guys will ship to the US.

I think the weight isnt really the issue. it's more about how it reacted when wet, how the weight was distributed and the fact it was a better colour for concealment. All the issues it looked to resolve and did quite well.

Having read both those books i didnt get the impression the authors felt it was in any way bad, i got the impression the 1943 lethbridge (sp) mission achieved its goals of making combat kit fit for purpose.

Then again its years since i read both books so i may have convinently forgotten any criticisms

I think its important to look at it in context, it was light years ahead of any other armies webbing (as was 37 pattern). The US system up until 1956 pattern was based on the ww1 webbing and required you to have a different belt for every weapon in service, the german webbing was 19th century in design and fell to bits when you unhooked the belt and sat down , the russian 'webbing', well... say no more.

Even post war bundy and DDR webbing was pretty dire and just the same as WWII german webbing with nylon or web replacing the leather bits.

Its only late 50s when the us 56 and british 58 pattern are desgined in paralell and most countries around that time adopt an 'H' yoke that anything really changes to any degree.

No, I am in full agreement re: British webbing. At airsoft games, I used Pattern 37 with a Sten, G3A3, and even an AKS-74U a couple of times. I even rigged it to fit with a Swimmer headset and Puxing PX-888 radio once! I like American webbing of the time because it has a convenient pouch for fitting every type of equipment item very nicely, but therein lies the problem... I enjoy being able to carry whatever I'd like in the basic pouches. In service I saw the troops could carry an entire bandolier of .303 in one pouch, or Mills bombs, mortar bombs, Boys anti-tank rifle magazines, Bren mags, etc. Seems the US kit has a lot of "supplemental" ammo carrying bags, et al.

I'm at work right now, but when I get home will try to repost the section of Brayley's text which describes 44 pattern's perceived lack of success.

But the bottom line is that I'm a sucker for old canvas kit and will buy any of it I encounter!

While we're on the subject of hard-to-find webbing, anyone know where I can get a set of Pattern 1908?

08 pattern? You wont find it outside of repro for less than a small fortune. repro is pretty easy to source.

I've got some original 03 cavalry wwi kit and thats getting silly money now.

Yeah thats exactly my point about the failings of the m1910 system. If you needed to jig around the weapons in your squad you had to muck about swapping belts or putting ammo in things that didnt fit. .... a 'universal' 37 pouch held *anything* and held it well.

Some things in the 1910 set were very good like the canteen and the suspenders (better weight spread than 37 patterns) but the belt system was a dire flaw IMO.

For reference, just in case you haven't seen it before Ian, loads of info about British webbing on the Karkhee Web site:
http://www.karkeeweb.com/

And if you are curious about stuff to slap on the webbing (or your boots) then take a look at the Blanco and Bull site:
http://www.blancoandbull.com/

I love Karkee Web - great reference for when I'm at work and can't access my books.

Damn shame about the 08 pattern. I've been after a set since... forever? Was considering the repro offered at WPG - does anyone have experience with it?

No but i was told that SOFs WWI stuff is apparently not as awful as most their WWII repros.

Not a glowig recomendation but i'm putting together WWi kit for the 100th anniversary next year and I asked a few guy sin established groups and they all said it wasnt bad.

"Not as terrible", well I guess that's reassuring.

Am considering the 1908 pattern repro available from WPG - but anyway, want to get my 44pat squared away first.

Thanks all.

The SoF '08 set is the one recommended by the WWI re-enacting group I'll be joining in with this weekend.

Note they have two sets, it's the expensive one that's the good one. I've still not got an '08 set yet, I'll be borrowing at the weekend. It's a bit of a bugger that I'll need it as I already have a complete '14 set and an almost complete '03 set!

The waterbottles and carriers are the easiest bits to find despite what you see on ebay RARE etc

But as stated avoid the nasty puke green colour repro waterbottle carriers unless you are doing Australian Vietnam era SASR and are going to paint them up

Have a few bits of spare 44Patt bits if anyone interested.