Rebranding

So ...didn't go to the 16th today then !

A nice summary of where I also feel we are . For my money , nearly 3 years after offering to help Yith set something up ...

1 The scene is well established, we have catalysed a movement of sorts

2 We spent too much time on this hobby last year, leading to some of us getting a bit burnt out . Going forward for 09 , we ought ot be less inclined to help everyone else and just concentrate on what we want to do . Put bluntly , most people owe us a lot , not the other way round. The newer members won't see iot that way , but thats just the way of things.

3 inclusivenss is good, but I don't want to organise SISKS , would rather than 20 quality that 60 nobbers. Also I can't be assed organising games for people I don't like ...frankly why should I ?

anyway ...back to the chase. ...

David I will spend some time having a thought about this. If we are going to rebrand then agree with ditching airsoft in the title . We were reenacting airsofters ...this seems to have been lost with all the "we're airsofters and want to be crap " stuff .
Chat soon .

This thread has cropped up at exactly the right time.

I went up to Ambush Airsoft today to test fire some shooters and to get some piccies done. After hanging around chatting for a while, it struck me that what we do is about as far removed from "regular" Airsoft can be in a hobby that involves shooting bits of plastic at each other.

So, where do I stand on things - no particular order, just as I think of it:

1: Fuck SISK's - can't be arsed with that any more. If you're going to do it, do it right.
2: I'm up for more of a reenactment based thing - but not as anally retentive as most reenactment groups. I want to "suspend disbelief" for a weekend, I don't want it ruined by bright orange nylon tents etc etc.
3: We should do what WE want to do - I spent two years running a site - virtually every weekend - and I simply cant summon up the energy or motivation to do that anymore. We should put ourselves first (selfish? yup)
4: CiA events should be seen as the pinnacle of the hobby. Something that others aspire to.
5: We should mix things up a bit. Die Glocke is a members only gig (that might be opened to others if the Allied slots don't get filled!). What about going down the route that some events must have high level kit, whereas some are open to the "looks like" crowd as well. Personally, I don't want to put people off by having tight kit restrictions all the time, but I would like to do the odd event where kit has to be of
a decent standard (see point 2!)
6: After the BOTB II event, we need to look at ammo rules - i.e. should the 600 rounds be dropped to 400? 300? and should we introduce a rule for ammo resupply out in the game zone? (i've got some ideas on this)
7: Should we try and foster a culture of people playing in squads, and choose NCO's that we think can get the job done in-game, rather than let them choose amongst themselves?

I realise from what i've written that it makes me look like an arrogant cunt, and that half of it really isn't applicable to this thread, but hey-ho, I might as well pour all the ideas out in one go.

Now, rebranding, that's a tricky one.

Words I like:

"Event"
"Immersive"
"Battles"
"Combat"

As long as we avoid the dreaded phrase "Living History". A HORRIBLE term used by some reenactors who like to look down upon others - they think it makes them sound more qualified on the subject.

I still like the CiA concept of inclusivity. That is to say, I'm not hugely fussed about absolutely perfect kit and I'm OK that people need to find a kit level they are happy with and can afford - while respecting the effort and aspiration of others.

To be a bit clearer and to take an example - Dayglowfroggy at the last event. He looked shit but didn't need to be - this reflected badly on the other Germans who had taken time and trouble to look right, even if it wasn't 'reenacting' standard.
Or an other example where we have in-game camping and someone turns up with an orange plastic tent. This is 'I don't give a shit about others' not 'I have done everything I can to add to the event.'
Conversely, if someone uses a green post-war canvas tent and not a brown period one then that's fine, no biggy. Stick a modern rechargable LED camping light on the top though and that isn't on at all.

So, I suppose from my POV it's attitude that matters and getting into the spirit of the event - some managed it at Mist, some didn't.

As far squads go - well we know that it's meaningless once a game is underway. Planning squads on the forum is a complete waste of time. But you are right Jay - we do need to trust some players to lead and be left to get on with it. We know the ones who can!

Ammo limits. Hmm, scenario-led I would say. Allies had a hell of a trek to re-supply yet the Axis didn't and virtually had an endless supply - yet it didn't make a difference, the Axis still struggled. Other factors are more important. But still, our existing rule is simple and simplicity should always be the key factor IMO - I would be interested in your idea Jay and certainly happy to discuss ammo further.

Our July game is of necessity a small one and I sort of assumed this will be a more role play game, so will fit into a new leaner and tighter CiA style and of course the following E&E can be entirely authentic...

if someone uses a green post-war canvas tent and not a brown period one then that's fine, no biggy.

Agreed 100%. It may not be exactly right, but it looks a fuck sight better than some neon orange monstrosity, and on that front, it's certainly good enough for me! How much does a post war brit or yank pup-tent cost anyway? less than the price of a German tunic, or a Yank jacket i'll wager.

Dayglowfroggy = total bell end anyway. How neither Guy nor myself ended up belting him one at BOTB II i'll never be able to work out....

No time to reply properly now, but think that what everyone has said is relevant.

With you on the camping. A post-war pup tent can be as cheap as a tenner.

All good stuff kids , in agreement with all of it .

CW your point about orange tents and the attitude behind it hits the nail on the head for me .

Perosnally don't care if peoples kit is a bit farby , or their weapons a bit naff, it's the attitude that counts. I echo K's comments about wanting ot be in 1944 for the weekend , even if it involves suspending disbeleif .

My recent thoughts - tie up the rebranding ot a new set of rules relating to behaviour .

BTW for me -300 -600 rounds makes no difference to me , if I'm a cheating twat i'll ignore it anyway , and if I'm not then probs never use the full 600 anyway ?

"Spare Stuff" - ban it ...it causes more shit than anything else. No troops went into battle with spare guns aplanty why do airsofters ? Even Yith is guilty of this . One gun , one side arm , one of everything all the "spare" crap LEFT IN THE CAR . The only thing they should take into the field is apare BBs to reload from . Worked at the first Bulge from memory .

Other hates ..modern fabrics .

Having chatted to CW for me its

1 The suspension of disbeleif and how to get other players to help get inot this attitude

2 People acting like soldiers and not nobbers in silly uniforms .

3 Not being living history , we don't teach , we fight .

It's out there on the tip of my tongue !

Well, having a play to see how slogan looks on screen...

I do feel we need to keep the kit restrictions pretty loose to allow younger, poorer and uncertain newbies an entry level. Peer pressure tends to negate the need for us to be any stronger on this line. I do feel that this attitude should extend to all kit though, like you all say.

My pup tent it the warmest and driest tent I've used and it's cool and dark which means you can sleep in a bit on those early summer mornings without baking to death.

I just think, like you all say, that the perception of authenticity should extend to all parts of the game. We make a huge effort to create an immersive experience with is then destroyed by someone deciding to bring their nylon gun bag and PMRs into the field.

In short, there's no need to be prescriptive about kit, but a lot needs to be done to encourage authenticity of attitude and ethos, so I'm happy if we up the ante in that direction.

If we lose a few people like IMP or Biguk to Josh along the way, I've no problem with that. Like Guy says, I rather spend the weekend with 30-40 mates than have it spoiled by a few nobbers who we let in to up the numbers.

We're in it for the joy of it, not the profit. We ain't no Gunman.

just think, like you all say, that the perception of authenticity should extend to all parts of the game. We make a huge effort to create an immersive experience with is then destroyed by someone deciding to bring their nylon gun bag and PMRs into the field.

my thoughts exactly ...I can live with a bit of farby clothing , or wrong insignia becasue thats about spending power rather than attitude.

Comrades in Arm - 99% of Nobby Airsofters need not apply ....

WW2 COMBAT - KEEPING IT REAL

FIRST PERSON WW2 COMBAT

FIRST PERSON WW2 LIVE COMBAT

RELIVING THE WW2 COMBAT EXPERIENCE

WW2 BATTLES - AT THE SHARP END

THE BLOOD, SWEAT AND TEARS OF WW2

GET DIRTY - GET REAL, WW2 COMBAT EVENTS

WW2 LIVE COMBAT EVENTS

WW2 LIVE COMBAT EVENTS

closer ...whats a dead combat event look like though ?

keeping it real ...yeah right.... down with ma homies beetches and hoes tooo .

It's that travel back ot 194X bit I can't seem to finger a word for ...

We need a breakthrough phrase here , soemthing thats not Re-en or A/S ....easy then !

RELIVING THE WW2 COMBAT EXPERIENCE (or even 'Relive' to make it less passive)

WW2 LIVE COMBAT EVENTS

I can live with either of those. I'd avoid any reference to blood or 'reality'.

I actually just like - "WW2 Combat Events" Not too sure about the word live. Does it imply anything else without it?

Readingthrouhg this at the moment gives a framework perhaps ?

LOL could we introduce a maximum BMI figure for players ?

Immersive WW2 Combat Events (Even though immersive isn't a recognised word!)

Historical WW2 Combat Events

Authentic WW2 Combat Events

Personally like authentic...but then would leave us open to every minor criticism ..

Well, I am fine with 'WW2 Combat Events'
I mean it works, yet... WW2 and Combat are key words I think but 'Events' isn't quite there. Experience is a bit Josh. Battles is tautology.

Can we use the word (or equivalent) SOLDIER? We do this from the soldiers POV, we aren't in an ops room or a field kitchen, or driving trucks.

THE SOLDIER'S WW2

THE FRONT LINE

FRONT LINE COMBAT - heh, I like that!

www.frontlinecombat.com

Nope.

LOL - we aren't changing our name, just the tag line!