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A bunch of "newbie" questions.

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Bazooka Joe
(@bazooka-joe)
Posts: 196
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Topic starter
 

Hej Kenneth,
1. Usually 10 (though sometimes fewer) men led by a Corporal with a Lance Corporal as his 2ic.

2. In action often split into two manouvre groups. Rifle Group: Corporal (usually armed with a Sten), and 6 riflemen, and the Gun Group consisting of the Bren Gunner and loader and with the Lance Corporal in charge.

3. Paratroopers would have been issued the Para trousers, but gliderborne Airborne troops are unlikely to have had them issued. Battledress would have been worn under the Denison smock.

4. If it's the faux 20 round mags you mean, they should fit fine in the Universal pouches.

5. No, not really. Battledress was the main uniform for the latter part of WWII and was worn both for combat, parades, and 'walking out'. Service Dress was however worn by many officers as a smarter (but privately bought) alternative though.

6. A lot of people use scopes such as the Lyman Alaskan as alternatives.

Hope this helps.
Cheers
Joe

 
Posted : 22/01/2010 8:07 am
jonsteele
(@jonsteele)
Posts: 547
Honorable Member
 

TM M1A1 lo caps are modelled on the 30 rnd real steel mag - I think they're slightly longer than a MP40 mag (but haven't ever measured so stand to be corrected) and they don't fit very well in the Brit ammo pouch. That is unless its a MkIII pouch that were designed for the Sten mag - I'm trying to get hold of a pair of those (with the war time press stud fitting) and its similar to finding hen's teeeth!

Jon Steele
1st Sgt, Fox Company, 506th, 101st
OC 1 Squadron - RAF Regiment Living History Group!


Support our troops!

 
Posted : 22/01/2010 8:41 am
Bazooka Joe
(@bazooka-joe)
Posts: 196
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Topic starter
 

Just been doing some more reading and was surprised to see that the TOE for Parachute Battalions was somewhat different to regular infantry. I stand corrected.

http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/toe ... ompany.htm

 
Posted : 22/01/2010 8:50 am
Steiner
(@steiner_1609088194)
Posts: 10414
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TM M1A1 lo caps are modelled on the 30 rnd real steel mag - I think they're slightly longer than a MP40 mag (but haven't ever measured so stand to be corrected) and they don't fit very well in the Brit ammo pouch. That is unless its a MkIII pouch that were designed for the Sten mag - I'm trying to get hold of a pair of those (with the war time press stud fitting) and its similar to finding hen's teeeth!

Correction coming up...! :wink: The M1A1 "30-round" mag is about an inch shorter than an MP40 mag, but fatter. Jon, I'm surprised when you said you couldn't fit them in the ammo pouch - I can squeeze 4 in each and do the popper up with a bit of brute force. I'm pretty sure they're just the standard pouches - Yith is the man who will know - he bought all my webbing for me. (I did pay him back, honest!)


You've got nothing to ein, zwei, drei, vier

 
Posted : 22/01/2010 9:04 am
 Yith
(@yith)
Posts: 11230
Illustrious Member
 

Yeah, I'm fairly sure I got Steiner standard MkII pouches. I don't remember looking for MkIIIs for him.

If they're an inch shorter than MP40 magazines as Steiner says, and I'm pretty sure he's right, then they'll fit in any of the British utility pouches.

Note though that really the British didn't use the 30 round Tommy gun magazines as they came along later and the British didn't issue them to my knowledge. Normally they'd have the 20 round magazines. I can get 5 of those in each of my pouches.

Mind you they didn't have the M1A1 either, it was the M1928A1 that they had.

Yes a Sergeant could be armed with a rifle it he preferred.

 
Posted : 22/01/2010 9:41 am
jonsteele
(@jonsteele)
Posts: 547
Honorable Member
 

TM M1A1 lo caps are modelled on the 30 rnd real steel mag - I think they're slightly longer than a MP40 mag (but haven't ever measured so stand to be corrected) and they don't fit very well in the Brit ammo pouch. That is unless its a MkIII pouch that were designed for the Sten mag - I'm trying to get hold of a pair of those (with the war time press stud fitting) and its similar to finding hen's teeeth!

Correction coming up...! :wink: The M1A1 "30-round" mag is about an inch shorter than an MP40 mag, but fatter. Jon, I'm surprised when you said you couldn't fit them in the ammo pouch - I can squeeze 4 in each and do the popper up with a bit of brute force. I'm pretty sure they're just the standard pouches - Yith is the man who will know - he bought all my webbing for me. (I did pay him back, honest!)

I can get them in, just not comfortably - best fit I've achieved, whilst still being able to do up the pouch easily, is 3, which seems a waste of space. I'd like to fit 6 in one, which is why I'm after the MkIII pouch, that will then leave me with the other pouch for the rest of the shit I carry around in a game (that I never use :? ). The only other (expensive :x ) option is to keep the MkII pouches and get a Sten Bandolier.

Jon Steele
1st Sgt, Fox Company, 506th, 101st
OC 1 Squadron - RAF Regiment Living History Group!


Support our troops!

 
Posted : 22/01/2010 9:44 am
 Yith
(@yith)
Posts: 11230
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I'd like to fit 6 in one, which is why I'm after the MkIII pouch,

Jon, I doubt you'll ever get 6 even in a MkIII. Maybe 4 or 5, but not 6. I can't get 6 MP40 mags in and they're a lot slimmer than Thompson ones.

 
Posted : 22/01/2010 9:51 am
(@snake-dk)
Posts: 79
Trusted Member
 

I think I used to have 4 in post-war mk 3 pouch before I changed to Sten gun

 
Posted : 22/01/2010 10:26 am
jonsteele
(@jonsteele)
Posts: 547
Honorable Member
 

I'd like to fit 6 in one, which is why I'm after the MkIII pouch,

Jon, I doubt you'll ever get 6 even in a MkIII. Maybe 4 or 5, but not 6. I can't get 6 MP40 mags in and they're a lot slimmer than Thompson ones.

Poo - it was MP40 (Sten) mags I was looking at, my M1A1 will only get used with my US loadouts. Re-think required :x

Jon Steele
1st Sgt, Fox Company, 506th, 101st
OC 1 Squadron - RAF Regiment Living History Group!


Support our troops!

 
Posted : 22/01/2010 10:50 am
 Yith
(@yith)
Posts: 11230
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If you use the KA MP40 mid caps then all 5 from a boxed set will fit in a MkIII pouch. And with 120rnds in each (approx) that's plenty of ammo.

 
Posted : 22/01/2010 11:11 am
dieselmonkey
(@dieselmonkey)
Posts: 2286
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Just remembered something else I've been wondering about: Pistol Lanyards, now this is a bit embarresing really, but what is the purpose of this item and how are they attached? I know how they attach to the pistol but how about the other end?

The main purpose is to stop you losing your pistol!

I've seen them looped around people's necks, attached to epaulettes and attached to the belt/webbing in period photos, so it's just a question of personal preference.

It was usually only officers (and occasionally bren gunners) that got pistols, so they got a bit more leeway in their kit setup.

 
Posted : 22/01/2010 12:54 pm
Gadge
(@gadge)
Posts: 7247
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First off, I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this since it's half general british military related questions and part gear questions but hope I got it right.

So, on with the questions.

1: This is regarding squads and rank, as I understand it a squad was made up of around 12 men lead by a sergeant, but how does the corporal and lance corporal fit into this? and were the paratroopers organized in a different way, on the squad level?

2: How would squads be equipped? as in how many bren gunners, 2" mortars or were these even used on a squad level?

3: I'm a bit confused regarding the uniforms worn by paratroopers as I seem to recall seeing pictures of them both wearing the normal battle dress pants and the paratroopers pants, is this is a matter of personal taste or is there a "system" in it? also, would a paratrooper wear his battle dress blouse underneath his smock or disregard it completely?

4: How well would the low cap marui thompson mag fit in the pouches on the webbing? (not sure what the correct term for the two large pouces at the front are).

5: Is there a certain uniform british soldiers would wear when in formal occations or "out on the town" like the chocolate brown jacket worn by american paratroopers?

6: As it seems that the proper scope for an Enfield No.4 T is hard to come by do you have any advice as to which scope one might use that dosn't look completely out of place?

Think that's about it for now.

Thanks in advance.

Right I'm going to put the cat among the pidgeons and give you some different answers....

A line infantry squad was on paper 10 men... 1 cpl and a six man rifle group and a three man bren team led by a lance corporal.

In reality it could be anything between 5 and 12 men and led by a private.

Late war sections had crippling NCO shortage and it wasnt uncommon for privates to be in charge of sections, equally casualties or preference meant that a 10 man section wasnt alwasy ideal or possible.

A classic example is the hallamshire battalion, early in normandy they decided to have 8 man section with 2 brens in each and one section in the platoon as a large manouvre group of 12 men.

When you start looking at airborne formations it again changes, it was not uncommon for airlanding sections to be reduced so the whole platoon and platoon hq could get in a glider. Airborne formation expect to take a sizable 'hit' in casualties on landing and so its more than likely that a lot of formation would be understrenght at the start of the battle.

I'd be wary of taking the 'bayonet strength' tables as gospel. I've spent the best part of 10 years trying to find the right answer for the break down of an airlanding platoon and nearly every source differs!

The platoon Sgt doesnt lead sections, hes there as a manager of sorts, he advises the officer (as he usually has a lot more experience) and gets the corporals to do stuff. Platoon sgt is more of an admin role than a combat role hence the allocation of a rifle, freeing up a sten for someone more likely to be kicking in doors.

Paratrooper trousers are not a universally issued piece of kit, there were not enough to go around and you'll see many paras wearing regular trousers, you got whatever stores had in... then as now. If you were due for a new issue of trousers they would throw a pair at your from stores, there woudl be no choice as to what pattern you got... you'd also not get a new pair until the old pair were unservicable.. there was a war on and ecomonies had to be made. Going from photos from arnhem, everyone took their BD blouse into combat with them as well.

While we find it hot to wear a string vest, wool shirt, serge blouse and denison in summer out grandfathers were used to going about pretty much in shirt and jacket in hot weather.

So there you go, thats just based on doing Brit airborne for the last eight years or so and wargaming them for a decade and what i've personally found to be true.




"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."

 
Posted : 22/01/2010 5:54 pm
(@no1_sonuk)
Posts: 1455
Noble Member
 

Just remembered something else I've been wondering about: Pistol Lanyards, now this is a bit embarresing really, but what is the purpose of this item and how are they attached? I know how they attach to the pistol but how about the other end?

I have my holster on the belt to the right of the right-side ammo pouch. I have the lanyard around my neck, and the length is just right. It's not so loose that it catches on everything, but it's long enough that it's not tight when the gun's held at full-reach.

 
Posted : 22/01/2010 5:59 pm
 Yith
(@yith)
Posts: 11230
Illustrious Member
 

Just remembered something else I've been wondering about: Pistol Lanyards, now this is a bit embarresing really, but what is the purpose of this item and how are they attached? I know how they attach to the pistol but how about the other end?

I have my holster on the belt to the right of the right-side ammo pouch. I have the lanyard around my neck, and the length is just right. It's not so loose that it catches on everything, but it's long enough that it's not tight when the gun's held at full-reach.

And I often do the same, but on the left as I prefer to cross-draw.

 
Posted : 22/01/2010 7:50 pm
(@no1_sonuk)
Posts: 1455
Noble Member
 

I have my holster on the belt to the right of the right-side ammo pouch. I have the lanyard around my neck, and the length is just right. It's not so loose that it catches on everything, but it's long enough that it's not tight when the gun's held at full-reach.

And I often do the same, but on the left as I prefer to cross-draw.

On the front, between the pouch and the buckle? I may try that myself - where I have it now is a bit awkward to get at.

 
Posted : 22/01/2010 8:29 pm
 Yith
(@yith)
Posts: 11230
Illustrious Member
 

No round the side, beyond the pouch. Because the handle of the pistol is pointing forwards it's quite easy to draw. Also your rifle can be slung on your right shoulder out of the way whilst doing it.

The lanyard naturally lends itself to go around your neck in that position as well.

 
Posted : 22/01/2010 8:31 pm
 Yith
(@yith)
Posts: 11230
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Personally I prefer Enfields with iron sights. :)

 
Posted : 23/01/2010 3:31 pm
Bazooka Joe
(@bazooka-joe)
Posts: 196
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

Well I want to try both, so want a proper looking scope for it.

In that case I'd give the one you linked to a miss.

 
Posted : 23/01/2010 3:47 pm
(@no1_sonuk)
Posts: 1455
Noble Member
 

Well it is not anything like a true No.32 scope but since those are extremely rare and expensive I have to settle for less which is why I turned to the knowledgeable people on this site ;)

I think it's being kept secret. I've asked the same question a few times, and got the same answers you did...

 
Posted : 23/01/2010 4:05 pm
JD7
 JD7
(@jd7)
Posts: 6310
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A Lee-Enfield or a Mauser fitted with a scope in the realms of Airsoft is overkill.

I've owned a S&S No.4, a Tanaka K98k and a Tanaka G33/40 and a few other rifles. I've had a few scopes and only once gone into an event with one. I found it actually more off putting with the scope in airsoft - using a scope in full bore target shooting or even air rifle hunting yeah they have their moments. As Yith mentioned Iron sites and kentucky windage are more practicle for airsoft.

I guess it all comes down to looking the part or shooting the part?

I still hear shout's of "watch out there's a sniper out there!!" and it's only me or a few on the same side with rifles and iron sites :giggle:

Hell u still get new airsofters that think grenade launchers are the shizzle, buy them and try them, then think F.ucK I've waisted money on something I won't use

 
Posted : 23/01/2010 4:28 pm
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