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Chomley-Warner
(@admin-infinity)
Illustrious Member Admin

Photo guide to kipping in zelt.

Each soldier would have carried a zelt quarter, one zelt rope, and two or three poles & tent pegs. Therefore four men could make up a tent which four small WW2 size people could use although I don't think comfort would have been a word used and I guess only two or three would actually be kipping at any one time. For me, four zelts make a one person tent - room for bed and kit or if you are friendly, two men and very little kit!

You will need four zelts to make a tent.
Take a look at how the edge seams are constructed as the folded and stitched edging needs to be on the inside - if you have a SS oakleaf zelt the green summer side will be on the outside.
Each zelt should have three 28cm cord loops permanently attached - on both bottom corners and the middle bottom edge, knotted through the smaller grommets, knot on the inside.
Use 6mm jute sash cord from B&Q for this - its a reasonably close match to original cords. A 12.5m pack will be enough for a complete tent plus plenty to spare.

124817=2842 P5020004a
124817=2843 P5020007a
124817=2844 P5020003a

While you have the cord out make up four ropes from the cord. Cut four lengths of 230cm, fold back each end 15cm and bind with cotton string in a reasonably authentic way so that your final size is 200cm long. These ropes are useful for holding up awnings, extra support lines if its windy and other general lashing purposes.

124817=2845 P5020001a

Button together the sides of each pair of zelts, making sure you do up both the inner and outer buttons, until the first zelt meets the last and the pyramid is constructed.
Peg out the back two corners then crawl under and put in your centre support.
Now, here's a thing. You should use four pole sections. Using the Swiss poles I find that this gives a strange scalloped look to the flat sides that is impossible to remove even by adjusting pegs and tension. I have my own solution by making up a single piece pole. I've used a 1.25" x 46" square section bit of wood that was in the garage with a piece of 15mm copper pipe hammered into the end. I've fitted a handy hook into it to hang the lantern from (or hang your smart tunic ). This does method does lower the height but actually gives more floor area and volume.

124817=2846 P5020021a
124817=2847 P5020005a
124817=2848 P5020006a

Here I've undone one side, supported each corner with three pole sections and added a guy rope to each.

124817=2849 P5020008a

The height of the tent can be adjusted using the pegs to either allow ventilation along bottom edge or dropped down to allow water run-off, or indeed a the edge flap dropped into a perimeter drainage trench.
The tent pegs and poles are post war Swiss so not reenactor standard and not quite the right length but easily obtainable for a tenner or less for three poles and pegs in a splinter bag.
If it looks like rain drop your helmet over the pole to cover the holes in the top!

I'm a rubbish camper. For some reason I get very cold and so I go a bit overboard on sleeping kit. I start off with a ground sheet (from an IPK kit which costs a fiver or less) then lay a foam roll mat on that. On top of than goes a thermarest mattress. The idea being that not only is there some cushioning beneath me but if also give a lot of insulation so body warmth doesn't get lost to the ground. On top of that is a wool blanket for warmth and also to give and absorbent layer between the body and plastic membranes, which would otherwise be prone to condensation. Another wool blanket rolled up serves as a pillow, then goes the sleeping bag topped off by a blanket or two. If its a really warm summer night then the constricting sleeping bag is done away with.

124817=2850 P5020009a
124817=2851 P5020011a
124778=2838 P5020012a
124817=2852 P5020013a
124778=2834 P5020014a
124778=2835 P5020016a

Waterproofing.
In theory you shouldn't need to waterproof zelts - they work like conventional tenting material in that the fibres swell when wet therefore sealing the open weave. This is fine but when its raining you must avoid touching the inside surface else water will drip from that point. However, I'm not convinced these modern repros are made from the close weave poplin of the originals and so everyone waterproofs, just in case! Don't bother with expensive camping shop bottles or sprays - use Thompsons Water Seal from the DIY store, much cheaper and its really only silicone you are waterproofing with. Use a paintbrush and be liberal but be sure to dry properly and make sure its well aired. DO NOT do this on your lawn - I did and ended up with a perfect triangle burned on the grass!

124817=2853 P5020014a
124817=2854 P5020016a
124817=2855 P5020012a

Quote
Topic starter Posted : 02/05/2009 6:07 pm
Poacher
(@poacher)
Noble Member

http://www.zeltbahn.com/

Lots of stuff here for the zelt fan.

aka Stigroadie

AFRA
better by design

"Truth is a shining goddess, always veiled, always distant, never wholly approachable, but worthy of all the devotion of which the human spirit is capable. "

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Posted : 18/03/2007 9:22 pm
Poacher
(@poacher)
Noble Member

Zelt poles for the needy. The first type noted as rubbish seem to be post war DDR. They are the correct length but the wood is poor quality, the metal collar is not long enough and the poles snap at the slightest loading. I have seen them stamped with runes but they are always too clean to be wartime and they just dont do the job.
If you find yourself with the French or Skandy type dont panic, 3 skandy and one french pole together is spot on for length.

aka Stigroadie

AFRA
better by design

"Truth is a shining goddess, always veiled, always distant, never wholly approachable, but worthy of all the devotion of which the human spirit is capable. "

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Posted : 02/05/2007 10:19 pm
Poacher
(@poacher)
Noble Member


You can just see in the background my home for the weekend, a zelthaus, 16 sections, very roomie for the 4 of us who used it.
Held up in the sunday rain even though they are all originals and most have pin holes or repairs.

aka Stigroadie

AFRA
better by design

"Truth is a shining goddess, always veiled, always distant, never wholly approachable, but worthy of all the devotion of which the human spirit is capable. "

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Posted : 07/05/2007 11:36 pm
Poacher
(@poacher)
Noble Member

As promised some really dull pictures and a guide to the types of pegs I've found.
a] the common or garden wooden version with metal caps top and bottom and the little spigot that comes out the side, seen back at least as far as the first war. I find it works best holding out the cord loops along the bottom of the zelt. Some times but not often dated or marked, owners names are more common.
b]First war dated cast steel slightly sharper point than 2nd war types. maker G.D. may have zinc coating
c]'39 dated cast aluminium, maker G.A
d]'40 dated cast steel, maker may be S&a or S&Q, thin grey painted finnish
e]'41 dated pressed steel, maker gyq, thin grey coating
f]Not sure about this one, similar pattern and length to the others, no markings on the galvo pressed steel body. I'd guess post war for civilian use. Any ideas?
g & h]The bakelite peg, 2 to show the colour range. Wood fibre and resin mixed under pressure to form the peg. Often dated and maker marked. the brown peg is '40 and wdl or dwl.[it's a monogram] the red one is '41 and GS marked.
i]Finally an unmarked post war Bundy cast ally peg. Green paint finish. They work fine for original zelts and are cheap enough.
Most original pegs wont go through the metal grommet holes on most repro zeltbahns. I have 9 repro zelts and only one will let an original peg through.
If you buy repro zelts it is well worth the time to add the short lengths of rope. They can really help to keep your tent up and dry.
Bored yet?

The reverse view if you must.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/ ... s2list.jpg

aka Stigroadie

AFRA
better by design

"Truth is a shining goddess, always veiled, always distant, never wholly approachable, but worthy of all the devotion of which the human spirit is capable. "

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Posted : 08/05/2007 2:39 pm
pikestaff2
(@pikestaff2)
Estimable Member

herewith scan of alloy and bakelite pegs, when steel ones are found I'll do them too.
rgds
P2-- attachment is not available --

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Posted : 06/05/2008 11:18 pm
Chomley-Warner
(@admin-infinity)
Illustrious Member Admin

Militaria-net have repro pegs at £4.49 a pop. http://militaria-net.co.uk/oscommerce/c ... cts_id/789
At £36 per tent though that's quite a lot of cash to look authentic.

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Topic starter Posted : 03/05/2009 2:58 pm
Hstuf. Vorwärts
(@hstuf-vorwarts)
Estimable Member

Heil to all of you,
I have just seen this thread and I have some solution for the ground of such tent, we use since years the old eastgerman Gasmaskpouches and also the old gasplanes made from some kind of plastik-rubber-fabric... I dont know the english word for this, you will never need in a reeanctment this gascover BUT it haves the right size for a SS or WH tent ground... so you will have a perfect dry and clean ground where you can leave your wool blankets etc.... may this idea helps somebody.....
Hope that I can show it this year to you guys personaly.....

* C-W edit: we would call them 'gas sheets' here, I can't find them in the UK but I presume it's this sort of thing:
[link]http://cgi.ebay.de/GASPLANE-BW-WEHRMACHT-GASPLANENTASCHE-DEPOTWARE_W0QQitemZ370191739568QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item370191739568&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1229|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50[/link]
[link]http://cgi.ebay.de/Wehrmacht-Luftwaffe-Elite-GASPLANE-unbenutzt-100-orig_W0QQitemZ350196553993QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item350196553993&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1229|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50[/link]
*



Ehre, Treue Vaterland!!! "NON SOLI CEDIT"

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Posted : 03/05/2009 4:08 pm
Poacher
(@poacher)
Noble Member

The reason you get a strange effect using the Swiss poles is because they are too long. Proper german poles are 370mm. You can cut down one of your swiss poles or do as Chomley has and use a substitute. broom sticks work well.

aka Stigroadie

AFRA
better by design

"Truth is a shining goddess, always veiled, always distant, never wholly approachable, but worthy of all the devotion of which the human spirit is capable. "

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Posted : 03/05/2009 6:25 pm
Hstuf. Vorwärts
(@hstuf-vorwarts)
Estimable Member

yes, those "gas sheets" are what I mean... they are perfect... tight size for a tent a luxury dry and clean ..... only the Luftwaffe is always angry with me, when we SS guys use the Wunderwaffe "Sat TV" in our tent......



Ehre, Treue Vaterland!!! "NON SOLI CEDIT"

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Posted : 03/05/2009 6:40 pm
Zero Bravo
(@zero-bravo)
Famed Member

An excellent guide CW and a very useful reference.
A little tip for you all concerning whipping, ( the wrapping of string around the joints ) if you go to your local hardware store you should be able to pick up a lump of beeswax for about a pound. If you pass the string across the wax several times and thoroughly coat the string, it will hold together a lot better. Combined with a small pair of long nosed pliers this will allow you to make a really tight bind that will stay put.




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Posted : 26/05/2009 9:05 pm
Chomley-Warner
(@admin-infinity)
Illustrious Member Admin

Ah, you noticed my whipping was a bit shabby! I admit to being a bodge-it merchant - always have the best intentions but always fall short of the mark.

* self-flagellates as penance *

* finds it rather enjoyable, so flagellates again *

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Topic starter Posted : 26/05/2009 9:21 pm
Zero Bravo
(@zero-bravo)
Famed Member

Having had the benifit of your experience and advice from boots to zelts, I'd certainly not class you as a bodge it merchant. My Dad was a scoutmaster and so i learned knots and the like from an early age. It's about 30 years since I've had a use for it that's all




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Posted : 26/05/2009 10:23 pm
(@hans-gowert)
Estimable Member

excellent thread and photos on the above,

word of warning regarding the repro metal pegs you can buy from vendors.

They are made of an extremely brittle metal, when in the ground, if trodden on, or kicked hard, they will snap in 2 like a stick, i now have 3 left :) bloody drunken reenactors :P

Freiheit ist nicht frei

Alle sieben Sekunden stirbt ein deutscher Soldat ,,,,,,,stalingrad massengrab

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Posted : 10/06/2009 6:12 am
Kermit
(@kermit)
Famed Member

I know exactly what you mean there Hans. I'd down to half the number that I bought.

Wonder if there would be a market for repro steel ones? Might be economically viable to do if made in a decent batch size (200 or so)

When we were a Kingdom it was run by a King
When we were an Empire it was run by an Empress
Now we're a country we're run by a..........

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Posted : 10/06/2009 5:29 pm
Poacher
(@poacher)
Noble Member

The 'e' type in my photos above would not be too hard to make. It would be the tooling that cost the money. I think the run would need to be closer to 1000 to make it worth while financially? It would be cheap[er] to take the production to China or India but then you have little or no control over production and who sells them to who. You pay for tooling and set up costs and the factory sells to every dealer who calls in. They dont have your investment so can under sell you.
I'm game to invest if it can be done on an exclusive production deal.
Perhaps we could make them a couple of millimeters narrower so they fit through the grommets of some of the repro zelts?

aka Stigroadie

AFRA
better by design

"Truth is a shining goddess, always veiled, always distant, never wholly approachable, but worthy of all the devotion of which the human spirit is capable. "

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Posted : 10/06/2009 11:08 pm
Poacher
(@poacher)
Noble Member

PD found one once and posted it, I never took any photos. Too busy sewing buttons back on.

aka Stigroadie

AFRA
better by design

"Truth is a shining goddess, always veiled, always distant, never wholly approachable, but worthy of all the devotion of which the human spirit is capable. "

ReplyQuote
Posted : 11/06/2009 11:02 pm
(@hans-gowert)
Estimable Member

or,
you could take a cast of the current repro pegs and do them yourself ?

make a furnace, scrap metal , and you have your own pegs :P

or take them to a mobile foundry at a steam fair and ask them to make them :)

Freiheit ist nicht frei

Alle sieben Sekunden stirbt ein deutscher Soldat ,,,,,,,stalingrad massengrab

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Posted : 11/06/2009 11:19 pm
Kermit
(@kermit)
Famed Member

I've already done the homemade blast furnace. Was 14 at the time, and its fair to say that the parents were not impressed with the mess when a few things got torched that shouldn't have been...

Anyway, I think there might be some mileage in this idea. Will have a chat to some people I know.

When we were a Kingdom it was run by a King
When we were an Empire it was run by an Empress
Now we're a country we're run by a..........

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Posted : 11/06/2009 11:39 pm
dave barrett
(@dave-barrett)
Prominent Member

Have won these on Ebay USA for £15,German ww2 1942 ? ? what do you think.
-- attachment is not available --


_____________________________________________________


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Posted : 05/08/2009 10:49 am
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