American Kit Accuracy Discussion

Come on HS is this really nessessary? Are we playing airsoft or have we now gotta be reenactors aswell? Your comment about because we look in your opinion "scruffy" we are being dishourable to the dead, i find frankly offensive.

Got to agree Big UK Tom must have had a problem getting kit to fit anyway.
Perhaps I look to old im my kit?

not a jab just one question though why is your jump jacket green ? also im belive that the medical pouch attached to the helmet was a myth and did'nt realy happen that often or so I was aware, but on the upside you dont have a US flag on your jacket which is a plus now go roll in some dirt soldier.

Also about the dangeling straps I have a picture somewhere of how to stop that I didnt know how at first then I saw it in a museeum so took a picture Il see if I can fish it out.

Looking good Tom,just need a few adjustments and your sorted.

Hey!
I also find HS's comment "This isn't a stitch nazi thread. It's about looking right and not doing a disservice to those who made the sacrifices." offensive too!

What has happened to the aims of CIA as quoted from the 'About Comrades in Arms' link at the top of this page...

"Organise WW2 games that follow a 'film-sim' principle",
"Create a hub for WW2 airsofters to share their enthusiasm"
" Keep an 'friendly and inclusive' approach rather than 'elitist and stitch-counting'" .

And Tom I think your load out looks good, (but thats through airsoft gogles....)

the jacket isnt green but its the light in the kitchen, but it haas been in the wash only once, plus with the morning of the jump, newly issued kit shouldnt be dirty should it?

ok, got these photos off google, but it shows their kit how some of them wore it, also with the aid kit on the helmet, there is some proof of a handfull of lads with the aid kit on the helmet ( more common in market garden) but i think there is already a thread including this, also bearing in mind the helmet is a post war M1 and isnt M1c, the liner is a nam m1c, doesnt fit too good, and when i painted the 506th spades on, little bit too big, well, WAYYY too big.

i do know there are some bits that are majorly wrong with my kit and i do aprieciate you lads helping me out here.

anyway, about these pictures, on the first page when you google '101st airborne' in pictures, and on HS's comment, i dont know if its 'offensive' but its peoples opinions so :/ i dont know really, im just here to play airsoft
also another prime example of pictures are in the band of brothers book, ( prefer to read it as its more 'factual' and explains most tihngs)

cheers, hope to see some of you at the operations in febuary.

Tom.-- attachment is not available ---- attachment is not available --

Hey!
I also find HS's comment "This isn't a stitch nazi thread. It's about looking right and not doing a disservice to those who made the sacrifices." offensive too!

What has happened to the aims of CIA as quoted from the 'About Comrades in Arms' link at the top of this page...

"Organise WW2 games that follow a 'film-sim' principle",
"Create a hub for WW2 airsofters to share their enthusiasm"
" Keep an 'friendly and inclusive' approach rather than 'elitist and stitch-counting'" .

And Tom I think your load out looks good, (but thats through airsoft gogles....)

The principles haven't changed, and I'm not making a comment on the level and accuracy of people's kit.

I'm not sure why you find the above quote I made offensive. Annoying perhaps, but offensive? Not sure what's offensive about it. If you choose to wear the kit, wear it properly. It's got nothing to do with age, sex, race or gender..

Both the photos that Dog Company and Tom have posted show a wide range of kit accuracy. Clearly people have spent a lot of time and money getting this kit together and forming a group. It seems a great shame that they haven't then taken the time to ensure that the excellent kit they do have is being used and worn correctly.

I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just trying to offer some advice on how to make your kit more accurate. Perhaps my closing line was a little uncalled for, but that's my opinion, so I said it.

Buying all this expensive accurate kit then not wearing it properly is akin to buying a Ferrari for the school run IMHO.

NB: The German guys on this forum have allocated two members to be Feldgendarmerie in order to pick them up on kit innaccuracies! I'm certainly not suggesting we take it that far!

HS, would you care to give some examples, especially with regards to dog company?

well, ive done some research and not everybody wore their webbing exactly the same way, depending on the weapon, webbing was worn differenlty, say a soldier with a garand would have different webbing to a man with a thompson, the same with a man with a garand wirth a 1911. i wear my kit so its practical, im left handed to i have to have my holster on a certain side, also my bandolier on the opposite shoulder, on headshots quote, i dont think it really matters and hes right, theres no need to argue, were on the same side. (:

Tom.

I found it personally offensive HS. As i have an uncle laying in a Military grave over in Europe. I am extremely proud of what he did, so the thought that i am doing him an injustice made me angry.

I know that in the pics i am wearing a garand belt with a carbine holster. That was due to a late change in weapon selection and wardrobe. I didnt have enough time to change my belt. Yes i do have a first aid pack on my helmet. But thats to hide the fact that i dont have a leather chin strap on the helmet atm. As i have a an SOF liner i have to rivet the strap in place, which i haven't got around to doing yet. Once the helmets sorted the aid pack will go on my webbing.

All of us in Dog Company protray a combat unit, So if we have our webbing slightly different its for comfort, and suits our style of play.

Fair enough. Just trying to offer some advice.

By way of my first granddad dying of TB which he contracted during the war I have three grandparents who all fought in the 40s and made huge sacrifices, so not sure what your point is.

As per imp's request:

Now, these are a bit stitch countery.....

Why so many chest holsters? They were rare and for officers only.
Get your belts straight and your suspenders adjusted properly. Belts should sit around your waist, not on your hips and should cover the belt on the jumpsuit.
If you are portraying a single unit then decide on a consistent look. EG: Helmets nets on? Scrimmed up nets? Same colour scrim?
Carry your weapons like soldiers, not insurgents.
Metal jump wings are for dress uniforms.

It's less about that though, and more about looking like a soldier if that's what you're trying to acheive. Soldiers are defined by discipline and uniformity. For posed shots, try to look organised and efficient. I think you'll enjoy the results more.

Compare with some of the images of the Brits and Germans and you can see that there's a difference which could be addressed.

Well to quote one of my Supervisors from a few years back....

"Its maybe not what you want Guv, but we kinda like it!"

...

Alot of these shots were taken whilst we were talking and discussing stuff. The photographer was told to just snap away and capture as many things as possible.

Take this picture, we're posing, organised and as far as i can see all belt are adjusted in the correct manner

With regards to too many shoulder holster's..I found them more confortable than the hip holsters. We're a new group of guys, that only really met and formed 6-7 weeks ago. So yes we may have a similar kit. We have similar opinions on what being a paratrooper is.

First and fore most we are an airsoft bunch, with minor links with reenactment. So for us, being a "proper" historically correct unit, is not really on the radar yet. We need to gel and find out each other strengths and weaknesses.

Lets then address the points raised.
First, the point of the group is airsoft, not re enactment. formed by a group who wanted something different.
the holsters area necessary to carry a side arm for airsoft, its a matter of debate how many carried them. True, it was mainly officers ut enlisted men were sent/ given pistols of one sort or another and would when the got their hands on them, have aquired them.
Helmet nets, possibley a fair point, but again as its not re enactment, personal choice is the thing.
Weapons, the pic shown was one of many taken that day and not really wanting to go for the posed usual shot, weapons akimbo.
Jump wings is a fair point. I wouldn't, but again not re enactment and God knows we have seen some amazing bling on the German side.
As an ex soldier, a soldier is defined by many things, plus I don't really want to back into the army. I don't take orders very well, I'm too used to giving them and would not have the brass to order my mates around.
Webbing, Have you seen us? who there is in fighting trim. (apart from Mac )
and finally the brits and the Germans have had a very long time to aquire the look, well done to them. we formed not very long ago and who knows where our journey will take us.
All points noted and taken on board, but remember without people, there is no game and lets face facts people want to run around and shoot each other, while having a bit of a laugh, not be instructed in the fine art of wearing your kit.
On a final note, the elitism is not so much creeping in, as jumping around waving a bloody great banner. Now either CIA is all inclusive , all embracing or its re enacting with airsoft guns. It can't be both. Time to deceide perhaps?

On a final note, the elitism is not so much creeping in, as jumping around waving a bloody great banner. Now either CIA is all inclusive , all embracing or its re enacting with airsoft guns. It can't be both. Time to deceide perhaps?

Thanks for the reply, and fair points all.

I would take exception to the last point though. We are still inclusive. We still don't turn people away because of kit, and we would never do that.

It's just that I can see you guys have made a monumental effort to get all the right kit together and I think that it would be a shame if the last hurdle was not cleared.

BTW, regarding taking orders. Someone has to give them, and someone has to take them, so it's worth discussing that one.

Good points there Pat. especially

On a final note, the elitism is not so much creeping in, as jumping around waving a bloody great banner. Now either CIA is all inclusive , all embracing or its re enacting with airsoft guns. It can't be both. Time to deceide perhaps?

I have PM'd various people on this forum addressing my concerns and visa versa about this. So possibly it is now time for CiA to really define where it see's itself Airsoft/Film-sim or Airsoft/Reenactment. Especially now that you are inconjunction with AFRA.

Maybe this is something that can be opened to discussion.

Was writing this just as HS replied so i'll add my reply. I thank you for your critique of our kit, i just think you went about it in the wrong manner, and I was forced to defend Dog Company.

My kit is forever changing as my taste's change and new idea's come to light, from research.

I can't help being a bit baffled here!

Why is tucking some straps in and so looking a bit smarter against CiA principles? When have we ever turned anyone away for wearing 'wrong' kit?

No one has to defend themselves, no one is attacking anyone.

Your ultimatum is misguided biguk - CiA is what it is and always has been. However, don't confuse forum posts with Comrades in Arms organisation policy - this forum is a broad church forum with users form all over the world with all shades of agenda.

It isn't even relevant to the discussion but for the record, CiA are associated with AFRA on our own terms, it isn't dictated to us and we have done it for the benefit of members.

Im not going to drag out this discussion any further. Thanks chommers for explaining the CiA/AFRA partnership. I've already thank'd HS for his views, and i have said i will take them into account in the future..

Anyhoo...

theres no need to argue, were on the same side. (:

Good attitude Tom!
(It can't have escaped your notice that 'adults' behave in bonkers ways sometimes, that's why I think and act like a 10 year old most of the time - much more fun!)
And like most the other forum members I'm incredibly jealous of you - I had to wait until old age before I got any of the clobber you have