Hi all hope all is well, I'm looking for a little help with my Brit kit. My grandad was was in (as far as I know) 8th army kings royal rifles corps, I'm looking at trying to get the correct flashes, berret (if worn) but cant find sweet f.a on the net, the only picture I have of grandad is a portrait of him wearing a fez in Egypt (I guess) but there is no red backing on the cap badge. Any help would fantastic
If you look in the Kit Guides section at the top of the page under Brit then there are a list of suppliers such as "Soldier of fortune " "spearhead" "sentimental journey" etc , soldier of fortune (often referred to as SOF or Costa fortune ) might be a good starting point but I'm sure someone else will chime in with better info.
armoury
m1a1 Thompson,sten mk2,mp40,stg44,sterling,mk2 bren gun,lee Enfield no4 mk1,Mauser Kar98, Walther ppk,smith and Weston m10 and Mauser m712
Give me a big enough hammer and a place to stand and I could fix the world.
i'll kill a man in a fair fight or if i think he's going to start a fair fight or over a woman or.......
a problem shared is a problem halved ,but an advantage shared is no advantage at all
if a job's not worth doing then its certainly not worth doing well
I've the basic kit but its more the flashes/symbols in looking into, but cheers either way
Hi Andy, have the KRRC got a museum?
My father was in the 8th army, Rasc, I found out more from the Essex Regiment Museum, than he ever told me.
It will depend on which battalion of KRRC he was in and when he joined. Several territorial battalions were renamed into KRRC.
I guess the fez didn’t need the red felt backing. I have read that at the start of the war the shape of the red backing could determine the battalion.
I think the position would be:
Caps would have been the forage or Field Service Cap until 1943 then changing to the General Service Cap (Ridiculous). There is also a dress FS cap which is rifle green with black piping.
As for badges, at the start of the war there would only occasionally have been brass KRR on the epaulette, you’d have to find originals for this I think.
September 1940 to December 1941 this changed to cloth slip on titles with KRR which would probably also have been used in Africa. The usual Divpatch and Monty’s Locker don’t seem to have any. Also worn were red Infantry Arm of Service strips, the number of them determined by the position of the brigade within the division. At this time, for the 1st Battalion, I think this would have been one red strip as they were in the 4th Armoured Brigade within 7th Armoured Division up until December 1942. But this wasn’t worn on Khaki Drill only battledress.
From December 1941 until June 1943 the slip on titles disappeared. The AoS strip remained and was augmented by the formation patch. So up until December 1942 for 1st Battalion this would have been the 7th Armoured Division desert rat although both Divpatch and Monty’s Locker actually have specific 4th Armoured Brigade formation patches.
From June 1943 shoulder titles appeared and KRRC would have worn them with KRRC in red on a rifle green backing (Monty’s Locker have them in stock). Plus formation badges and AoS as applicable. These would change as units got moved between brigades and divisions.
Of course they were often ordered to remove all identification marks except AoS stripes.
This seems to be the movements of 1st and 2nd Battalions KRRC:
1st Battalion:
When war was declared in September 1939 the 1st Bn. was part of Pivot Group, near Wadi el Nagamish, Egypt. The 1st Bn KRRC fought almost to the last at Sidi Rezegh, with only 55 men of all ranks escaping the battle where the regiment’s 23rd VC was won. It served with 7th Armoured Division throughout the North African Campaign until 4th Armoured Brigade was detached from the Division after El Alamein. It left 4th Armoured Brigade in January 1943, being replaced by the 2nd Bn. KRRC. It then served in Italy as part of 2nd Armoured Brigade, 1st Armoured Division until 2nd Armoured Brigade became an independent Brigade in October 1944. It joined 61st Infantry Brigade, 6th Armoured Division with which it served until the end of the war, along side 2nd Bn. The Rifle Brigade, with which it had started the war with in 7th Armoured Division.
2nd Battalion:
When war was declared in September 1939 the 2nd Bn. was part of 1st Support Group, 1st Armoured Division, stationed at Tidworth, Wiltshire. During the Fall of France in 1940, it served as part of 30th Brigade in the defense of Calais, along with 1st Bn. Rifle Brigade and 1st Bn. Queen Victoria Rifles, having originally gone to France as part of the 1st Armoured Division. In the battle of Calais all three of these battalions were lost, but not before they have held up a large German armoured force trying to get to the BEF at Dunkirk, for three important days. The battalion was reformed with the rest of 1st Armoured Division and reached the Middle East in late 1941. Along with the rest of the 1st Armoured Division the battalion fought in the Gazala battle of May/June 1942, withdrawing to the El Alamein line with the rest of the Army. At El Alamein the battalion was part of 7th Motor Brigade (the old 7th Armoured Division Support Group) along with 2nd and 7th Bn. Rifle Brigade, still under command of 1st Armoured Division. It joined 4th Armoured Brigade in January 1943, replacing the 1st Bn. KRRC, and served with the Brigade during the rest of the North African Campaign. The battalion remained in North Africa during the Sicily campaign, but rejoined 4th Armoured Brigade in Italy, before returning with it to the UK to prepare for the invasion of Normandy. It continued to serve with it in North Europe until the end of the war.
Cheers
Charlie
I have a small skewer hidden in the collar of my jumping jacket, and a razorblade in my gaiter, as well as my knife.
Cheers all, I was talking to dad about it and he said grandad was called up for service in the late 30's and was shipped with the 8th army. So my guessing is maybe 1st battalion
You haven't said where you are.
There are two museums in Winchester to contact. The Rifles and the RGJ museums
They are the successor units to the KRRC.
There is excellent general advice above on the unit from Universal Gunner.
Can you talk more to the family and get some more details. Late 30's entry to service could be a regular soldier. Expansion of the TA starts with the Munich crisis in '38 and general conscription does not get going until '39. So he could be any of those.
As you can see from the history of 1st KRRC it is in North Africa as part of the Western Desert forces even before the 8th Army is designated. So some gaps to fill in. If you can find his service number it will make getting the information on exactly where he was serving much easier.