Camo... do we over do it?

I don't own a bit of camo.

M42 olive drab kit is fantastic in the woods. Khaki on the other hand, isn't.

I prefer to get it right. If I can avoid wearing a denison smock or other camo then I will.

That also goes for losing helmet nets etc.

However it's certainly the case that the camo clothing and helmet camo certainly does help not be seen.

And yes, US kit is shocking for helping you hide, the worst is the M1 helmet, it stands out a mile!

I'd have to say that you see very few camo bits on US gamers... i'd have expected the old camo suits worn by the 2nd armoured to be more popular (considered one myself once).

That said on the re-enactment forums its often felt that the parachute camo scarf is horrifically overdone.

I prefer to get it right. If I can avoid wearing a denison smock or other camo then I will.

That also goes for losing helmet nets etc.

However it's certainly the case that the camo clothing and helmet camo certainly does help not be seen.

And yes, US kit is shocking for helping you hide, the worst is the M1 helmet, it stands out a mile!

I'm always amazed at how even when a camo net was issued and worn, pics of it scrimmed or even more rare with local foliage are few and far between!

I only have Brit Airborne so wearing the Denison is part of the rig, I will ditch my helmet from time to time and got for the Beret, My Para helmet does have scrim in it because that is how I wanted it, I'm puting together a DAK rig and as far as I was aware there were no cam kit for then, I have noticed alot of german players with loads of cam on at woodland games, but not so much in Urban as it would defy the point.

Cam does have it's place though, but like you said it was not readly available back then, so we should probably cut back.

I'm always amazed at how even when a camo net was issued and worn, pics of it scrimmed or even more rare with local foliage are few and far between!

IIRC: There were US orders for M1 helmets not to be dressed with foliage. I seem to remember it's because one of the commanders hated it and thought it looked untidy.

I may be wrong.

The olive green M42s are superb in a woodland setting.

DISCLAIMER* Not for publication in any well known airsoft publication NO transmisssion, reproduction or copying in any form, electronic, oral or written without the prior express permission of he original author - It's humour - but I still don't wanna see it in print unless I get a fee for it!!!!!
Gadge - a few wrongisms here - but I do agree there is too much camo....
1 - Heeres AND Waffen SS troops were ISSUED a helmet cover from 1940 onwards. It was smocks that were - initially one between 5 men and latterly issued for specific operations then "supposedly" collected back in. Likewise padded gear - Issued on a "from and to" date basis or for specific cold weather operations.

2 - Erbsentarnmuster - or Peadot to thee and me - was intended to be the replacement uniform - an OVERGARMENT to be exact - for all previous Waffen SS camouflage patterns. So Normandy onwards it was a very prevalent camouflage suit.

3 - People mismatch camo due to lack of research. Das Reich for example never got an issue of Erbsentarn but did retain a large amount of burred edge typ1 smocks and helmet covers. So you could feasibly see Das Reich wearing lots of Rauchentarn. Das Reich the group incidentally have this right and it is in their dress regs.

4 - SS Panzercrews in particular but many Heerespanzertruppen recieved camouflage overgarments and overalls to replace/disguise the distinctive black uniforms as this singled them out as targets when away from their armour (a lot of tank men were attached to frontline units to co-ordinate interarm operations and to spot for mobile artillery etc.) So the Eichenlaub coveralls were a common sight in summer especially. The two piece suits - Autumn Eichenlaub was most common - along with Erbsentarn for W-SS......

5 - Many soldiers made use of scrap zeltbahns (whch every man was issued as standard) to make improvised helmet covers - I have two in my collection. I could write a decent pamphlet on helmet camo - Sacking, mud, paint, textures, foliae bands, chicken wire baskets and cloth covers....... Helmets were the most commonly camo'd items because you had to stick your head up to see the enemy - and a shiny, smooth lid gave the game away!

Allies - Denisons were issued to Paras for sure so thre should be NP ith red berets wearing them - Windproofs (two piece) in a camouflage pattern were also issued to leg infantry but proved unpopular. US troops rarely used camouflage - the two piece suit widely used in PAific Theatres was utilies briefly in Normandy but because of documented Blue on Blue was rapidly withdrawn - Allied troops were so jittery about the -SS/Camo tie in - anthing wearing spotty/dotty/blotchy gear ws immediately in most cases. opened up on. Airboren US troops did ue paint on their tan/OG jumpsuits but this too was unit specific nd not a common sight.....

There is a lot of camo worn and mostly it's worn properly but there is also a deal that is inappropriately mismatched and incorrectly applied - So that's buggered me wearig my Peadot Gebirgsjaeger windproof at Boursin then!!!
Take a look at photos (Nick Halling) of the Ostfront B/F event held at Gunman Tuddenham at the beginning of his year - German Dress was feldgrau with Mantelen and by golly did it look good.....LIkewise a matched unit wearing all peadot looks authentic...... IF a unit has a dress code and a standing order for dress on an event it works far better. It's when ten units come together each with an idea of what they wanna wear and each set of individuals ithin a group deciding to be a "little bit individual" - result - mish mash - bunch of reenactors!!!!!

To sum up - Germans used an awful lot of camo - It was seen often - but has to be portrayed in context and not gratuitously. Brits - not so much cam -US virtually no cam.

Don't get me stated on FJ camo!!!!! Some units do it brilliantly - others......................

ADDENDUM
Fact: camouflage only works up to the point where the wearer moves.......

Problem is many of the photos show soldiers with camo bits. add to that black and white photos are difficult to identify. Plus the cool factor must be taken into consideration. SS players being worst offenders, I know I couldn't wait to get my hands on a camo smock. My heer kit has just a zelt and thats it. The helmet cover is handy for the player with 2 kits but only one helmet. possibly leading to why so many are seen.
I do agree to an extent that camo is over used, but if you look now at say PBI, and corrwct me if I am wrong, most of you guys wear Battledress.
US players, well scrim is not that common. I do have my 101st lid scrimmed but m 35th lid is plain camo net and I may lose that.
As well suppliers are a bit to blame, the bloody dot 44 hemet cover is prime offender.
I think researce is the way forward. but god knows we are kit whores and that really cool thing, you know the one you have just found for £10 on ebay would look really good............so ya just gotta have it.

Blue on blue for the 2nd Armored's camo is pretty much a myth and is not referred to in first hand accounts.

The camo was issued as a test and then wasn't reissued when the troops went back for 're-fit', so it disappeared.

1 - Heeres AND Waffen SS troops were ISSUED a helmet cover from 1940 onwards. It was smocks that were - initially one between 5 men and latterly issued for specific operations then "supposedly" collected back in. Likewise padded gear - Issued on a "from and to" date basis or for specific cold weather operations.

2 - Erbsentarnmuster - or Peadot to thee and me - was intended to be the replacement uniform - an OVERGARMENT to be exact - for all previous Waffen SS camouflage patterns. So Normandy onwards it was a very prevalent camouflage suit.

Now you see Kermit always told me that helmet covers were in reality scarcer than smocks in the SS and pictures seemed to back this up. With regards to heer, do you know the proportional scale of issue. It just seems strange that so few pic exist of the cover in proportion to improvised solutions like breadbag straps and inner tubes.

As for peadot... withdrawn in nov 44 due to unsustainable losses as it wore so badly. I'm always amazed at its prevalence with living historians when it was on an issue for less than eight months.

Not that i disagree with anything you've said there otherwise mind you.

I think in some cases ,yes, camo is is over done.

The US players don't really but then they don't get much chance to. Even the 2nd armoured camo suit isn't seen much though to be fair. However the camo scarf gag can be over used by the airborne types sometimes.

Brits are pretty good as well. You don't see many windproofs and denisons are only worn when appropriate. As airborne they would all have them so its perfectly acceptable for all to be wearing them. The only possible time they might be over used is if people are playing commandos but I don't know just how common they were in commando hands so I can't comment really. I've often wondered about the scrim scarves though; how common were they really?

The Germans however are the main ones to over do camo. The FJ are generally ok since smocks were standard issue and helmet covers common. The only over done things sometimes are the sumpfmuster camo items. The smocks are ok, if sometimes a little too common, but the fantasy items like helmet covers and bandoliers people use to have matching kit does annoy me.

The Heer can over use helmet covers and smocks a bit, along with Camo trousers but its not too bad. Alot of people doing Heer are drawn by the classic fieldgrey look though so it doesn't tend to be too much of a problem. Zelt all the way I say!

By far the worst however are the SS in both airsoft and reenacting. I guess because alot of people are drawn to it by the cool look of the camo so they use as much as possible. A fair amount of camo is ok as the SS did have more camouflage clothing issued than any other force but field grey was still a common sight. One of my pet hates is all over camo clothing and is something you often see the SS doing. For whatever reason I just think it looks wrong, especially if it matches. Again I think this is mainly because it means people have to wear custom made items in order to complete their matching set which takes their kit into fantasy land which isn't the image I feel we should be portraying. As PD suggests though its all down to research to make sure you have the right kit for the unit you're portraying which is something alot of people don't do.

Thats my 2ps worth. Yanks and Brits are ok, Germans need to embrace the fieldgrey!

. I've often wondered about the scrim scarves though; how common were they really? The only possible time they might be over used is if people are playing commandos but I don't know just how common they were in commando hands so I can't comment really.

Issued to *everyone* and part of standing orders in camouflage were instructions in how to use it to break up the outline of the head, shoulders and pack - or to use it either as a hide to snipe behind or to string it up behind you to stop you sky lining.

It was also occasionally used in the desert/sicily to shade the face and neck from the sun.

Was intended to be used as a face veil... became a fashion to use it as clothing.

note how visible the the lines of the small pack and rifle are here while the face veil obscures the head and shoulder totally.

Issued to *everyone* ...

Though as far as I know not issued everywhere and not all the way through the war. Certainly I doubt it was worn at Dunkirk and I'm fairly sure early on in the far east they didn't have them.

It'd be interesting to know when they started to be issued.

But certainly perfectly fine post D-Day and for some time before. And as Gadge says... Sicily.

(Hmm... actually I have a book that might tell me the issue date... I better check it!)

Issued in north africa, italy/sicily, NWE europe inc UK duties, far east, not seen any examples of it in the arctic though.

Agreed probably not issued at the outbreak of war... but when they were issued... they were issued to everybody as part of a basic kit issue.

Don't get me started on camo parachute scarves on Airborne.

The long and short of it is that they did take cuts of chutes for souvenirs, and sometimes utilised them...including as helmet covers (there's a picture on this forum somewhere). But you really do have to question the effectiveness of wearing a tiny bit of camo as a scarf when the rest of you is decked out in a lovely khaki jumpsuit and a helmet with no foliage.....

Cheers for clearing the scrim scarf thing up. My comment about commandos was actually about densions, I altered the sentence order by accident. How common were they issued to commandos?

1 - Heeres AND Waffen SS troops were ISSUED a helmet cover from 1940 onwards. It was smocks that were - initially one between 5 men and latterly issued for specific operations then "supposedly" collected back in. Likewise padded gear - Issued on a "from and to" date basis or for specific cold weather operations.

2 - Erbsentarnmuster - or Peadot to thee and me - was intended to be the replacement uniform - an OVERGARMENT to be exact - for all previous Waffen SS camouflage patterns. So Normandy onwards it was a very prevalent camouflage suit.

Now you see Kermit always told me that helmet covers were in reality scarcer than smocks in the SS and pictures seemed to back this up. With regards to heer, do you know the proportional scale of issue. It just seems strange that so few pic exist of the cover in proportion to improvised solutions like breadbag straps and inner tubes.

As for peadot... withdrawn in nov 44 due to unsustainable losses as it wore so badly. I'm always amazed at its prevalence with living historians when it was on an issue for less than eight months.

Not that i disagree with anything you've said there otherwise mind you.

Peadot was withdrawn in the winter of 1944 due to the losses coursed by Peadot not being very good in SNOW.
75 percent of all Waffen ss Divisions were supplied with smocks and helmet covers by September 1940.
Dachau alone produced 8500 zeltbahns,6000 smocks,14000 helmet covers per month.Then on top of that all the other camps and factories,so i don't think camo would be very much a rare thing.

Scarves also issued with KD kit...

Denisons... after about August 44 fairly common with army commando units and infantry snipers. (and anyone else who could get away with it)

The biggest brit camo myth is that windproofs were 'sas' when they were issued to several divisions en masse from winter 43.