Without wishing to pollute Chommers' thread about private battles, I think it's worth having a discussion about spend of kit and why people buy so much stuff.
Now, to quote Heide:
Good post C-W.
I too would like to see people being less worried about kit levels and badge placement. The most important thing is to get out there and take part! All too often, you see someone moaning that they can't afford to come to an event yet, they post in "latest acquisitions" about the Spitfire they've just bought. People will always strive for nice kit but, it can be built over time. Too many think that they have to be spot on just to come to an event.
I've seen many people with what some consider to be "inaccurate" kit get into the spirit of the game much better than some with 100% accurate kit!
I think this is a really important point.
Three years ago we set up CiA (with the very able assistance of Yith and Gadge, who later formed PBI) in order to create a series of WW2 events to stand out from the chaff of what we have come to call Skirmishes In Silly Kit, or SISKs. I had organised a few WW2 themed airsoft events at Fireball in Birmingham where people could turn up with whatever kit they wished and could play a game based on the WW2 theatre. There was a small number of WW2 airsofters most of whom turned up to these events in kit.
As we got more and more into the genre, we decided to get together and organise specifically themed and 'costumed' WW2 events with limitations on what people could wear. This isn't as altruistic as it sounds, we just wanted to organised events that we would want to attend!
These uniform and equipment limitations were, and remain to this day, very open. If required, people need only spend £20 or so to get the required kit to attend.
Recently, however, there has grown a misconception that CiA, and other organisers, run events that are 'elitist' and require hundreds of pounds worth of kit to attend. This is not true. There are, and always will be, minimal kit requirements that people can use if they feel the need to.
We've also got to a point where people are buying more and more kit and clothing in order to achieve a high level of accuracy......and here's the rub.
Some people seem to be getting into a vicious circle of perfectionism, and losing sight of the reason they started this in the first place, thus spending hundreds, and sometimes thousands, of pounds buying so much stuff that they can no longer afford to attend events, and publicly say so.
So here's my point. Are you a collector, or a skirmisher? Do you want to have a house full of kit to parade in front of the TV with, or would you rather get the right amount of stuff you need to survive in the field (and a night out with the D&B group) and attend regular events?
Personally speaking, I haven't bought any new kit in years, apart from replacing broken equipment. I have the same TM Thompson that I started with 7 years ago and haven't upgraded or replaced any of the internals. I also have an AGM MP40.
If too many of us get into the addiction of being a kit whore, then attendance at events will drop off and they will no longer become viable. Indeed you may see some organisations bite the dust. The long and short of it is that all of these events need people to attend in order to break even, whether they are non-profit like CiA, or are a business - supporting jobs, and thus families - like Gunman.
Happily we've managed to do this with The Boryszyn Loop and I hope others will too. A lot of events have been cancelled or postponed recently. An inevitable outcome of the recession, possibly. But if many of you had stayed your hand and not purchased that 'extra' RIF or those lovely pieces of equipment that look nice, but serve no purpose, then these events may have gone ahead.
Anyway, just thought I'd highlight some of CiA's observations. Without you, the paying public, CiA, PBI, AGS, Gunman and all the other organisers out there are nothing. Without you, we can't run events, and without events, what's the point of having all the kit cluttering up your spare room?
Cheers
HS
Spot on!
While we may have slightly tighter constraints in kit at our games, we do always have spare kit to loan out and nearly always civilian/resistance/npc roles for those who might not have it.
Freshman in feb at UCAP is a classic example, 50 per cent of the places there require no more than a lab coat or a shirt and trousers!
I have to agree with Steve in that you'd think with over 600 odd members on the forum and a couple of hundred active posters getting 40 folk t a game would be a doddle, but it seems that everyone is struggling to book folk in with often only the novelty of a new site or period being the real incentive to get out and game.
Which to be fair is strange as *most* of us game form mainstream airsoft where we would rock up to the same site every month, play the same 'capture the flag' scenarios with generally the same site locals...
I think Steve raises a very valid point and i wonder how many people do let gaming drop off in preference to buying obscure kit or uneeded stuff.
Personally I'd alwasy wanted to get the outer layer right for three or four outfits so i can play in almost any game, i'm not too worried if its 100 per cent accurate (i wear modern boots quite a lot for skirmishing etc)
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
Freshman in feb at UCAP is a classic example, 50 per cent of the places there require no more than a lab coat
Wow! Chilly. I bet this was your idea, you perv. 
You know me too well
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
thought it was more sandy who was into not wearing anything under a loosly fitting garment... 
Freshman in feb at UCAP is a classic example, 50 per cent of the places there require no more than a lab coat
But the problem with that is that people don't want to miss out on using their shiney new uniforms.
And that's just it... Shiney's do seem to attract the immediate consumer in us all. Spend £40 on a uniform and a few days later you have something to show for it. Spend £40 on booking a game and you'll be waiting ages before it comes along.
There's also time... Many people can't get the time off (from other-halfs, work, etc) to get to lots of events, but shiney kit doesn't mean you have to leave them for a weekend!
In some cases its because they want to also take part in public events where the kit level is so much higher, and hence have to spend more to get the kit.
If we're talking about re-enactors who often have a calendar jammed packed full of public events, they often can't find the time to get out and try airsofting.
There's lots, of factors as to why people spend so much money on kit and not on airsofting. It's not simple.
Personally, Steve, I'd have been exceptionally bored with the same uniform and gun for 7 years! The collecting is as much of the hobby as the airsofting for me. I expect it's the same for others as well and to some the collecting is FAR more important than the airsofting.
It was the same at non-world war two airsoft events. Plenty of people with 1000s of pounds of gear who really when they went to an event didn't actually take part and just sat in the safezone.
Freshman in feb at UCAP is a classic example, 50 per cent of the places there require no more than a lab coat
But the problem with that is that people don't want to miss out on using their shiney new uniforms.
And that's just it... Shiney's do seem to attract the immediate consumer in us all. Spend £40 on a uniform and a few days later you have something to show for it. Spend £40 on booking a game and you'll be waiting ages before it comes along.
.
You're totally right Rich but my point was more that we have a tag of being a bit 'elitist' but I was pointing out that the roleplay nature of some of our events means that there are places for folk who dont even have *A* uniform let alone a super duper living history masterpiece 
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
I collect the kit to be involved in something. If I need a specific piece of kit for an event I will get it to that I look "right."
For example, for the Boryszyn Loop game, I'm making a mosin nagant rifle and getting Russian Infantry kit. Getting the stuff I need for the game, I'm not going to be buying 4 different Soviet helmets because I like collecting.... each to their own. If the Loop game wasn't happening I prolly wouldnt be buying the kit,... however,... such need in the future is likely, so may as well get it whilst I still have a job!
Unless there's something utterly amazing that I must have, thats usually the impulse buys I could prolly do without!
I'm as guilty as the next person for accumulating stuff although, like Webby, I have never bought kit for its own sake. I haven't ever bought anything I haven't actually used or really wanted. That's why I never sell things - they were all considered and careful purchases. (Apart from a G-Spec donkey's years ago, that had to go - 'sniping wasn't for me 
)
Heh, we ALL persuade ourselves we 'need' stuff - be it plasma TVs, iPhones or the latest AEG.
In some ways a recession is a good thing - it doesn't half make you think twice before parting with the cash! I avoid show stalls and web sites like the plague now - I know I'm weak and therefore I don't put temptation in my way!
Personally, Steve, I'd have been exceptionally bored with the same uniform and gun for 7 years! The collecting is as much of the hobby as the airsofting for me. I expect it's the same for others as well and to some the collecting is FAR more important than the airsofting.
Necessity dictates for me. I simply haven't had the money to attend events and purchase more kit, nor the inclination to spend it on kit when I have it. I have several hobbies to empty my purse, I'd probably put the dancing before the airsoft too.
That said, I've never been bored with the kit I have because I use it as a means to an end: to go skirmishing. For that, it works superbly.
When I've had to diversify, I've had to rely on the generosity of others (yourself included!) and have borrowed kit. Boredom hasn't been an issue.
I rarely sell anything, mainly for the same reason as Dave - i bought it cos it was actually required but also because I know the minute I do sell something off then it wil be needed.
Point in hand is that when I used to do only modern russian loadouts for airsoft I did at home have a beautiful sectionalised and cutaway small arms instruction bren gun.
Absolute piece of art with the working parts revealed, tidy red lining on the cutaway.... but utterly useless to me (i'd blagged it form work as it was just sitting around in stores) so when i was pretty skint one month i sold it for about £150!!!
Now doing re-enactment shows and displays for the public it would be ideal... gutted everytime i think abut how cheaply i let it go too.
Hindsight eh?
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
I buy some thing almost every week but i will all ways but airsofting first..i've never missed a CIA game in the two years since i've joined and hopfully never will.Its a shame that games have and will get canceled..but i dont think its all down to kit hores but just that...it gets dark after 5pm 
...its cold or that 15 garmans book on to a game but have no one to fight 
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Book onto Freshman then Dave.
No worries about it getting dark as its all underground and we could do with some more Germans!
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
I still class my self as a skirmisher, I have loads of modern kit and GAT's that I don't really use, there has to be atleast £400 worth of RIF's that I still have but don't use anymore, the WW2 CIA/PBI etc games are a real enjoyment to me to go to, the social nights before the games are great and allow you to bond as a team, they also make new players feel welcome, the money side of the events is not a problem for me (no kids/house/morgage/ or domestic managment yet!), my only problem in getting to events is work decides to pop up on the same weekends that I try to book to go to the games, or they are booked on weekends like Remembrance sunday like Op Vengance, I would love to go to it, even booked and sent a cheque and paperwork for it, but am now on parade so can't make it again, I only have a brit airborne/Commando rig so can only really make games with those looks in mind, I know that I can be a kit monster some times but am going to have to stop myself from buying loads of kit, only practical kit now.
"Will you stop talking about the war!!"
"What, you started it!"
"We did NOT start it!"
"Yes you did, you invaded Poland..."
Book onto Freshman then Dave.
No worries about it getting dark as its all underground and we could do with some more Germans!
will be booking to of us on as Heer..today
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Nice one mate.
I think we'll be able to crush the tommies together!
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
I'd put myself in the same category as Webby and CW. I have alot of kit but only buy what I intend to use. I consider something carefully before I purchase it and don't tend to sell it afterwards.
I do often like to purchase kit to fit with a given scenario as I like my kit to be as correct as I can get it. I guess thats how I have ended up with 5 German impressions. 
However I never let kit get in the way of going to an event I want to go to, and have attended pretty much every event I have wanted to this year- with the exception of those that were cancelled.
All the German impressions I own I've worn and intend to wear again. Plus I have reached that critical mass where I can portray just about any unit at any time so would consider them value for money. I'm pretty happy with them now and any additional purchases I do make will be minor improvements to what I already have.
Its the same with my Russian kit. I bought that for Bryansk but it didn't turn up in time so I'm looking forward to finally getting to use it. I know I have enough to attend events in but I will still get additional kit for Boryzyn. Once I have that however there is very little extra I would need for any event, even a re-enactment one.
If it come to wanting to play US or Brit (which I fancy trying next year) then I would probably look to borrow kit or at least do it very cheaply (something like Gadge's SBS kit) because I'd expect to get less replay value out of it. It would be the same with a far East game. I'd love to give it a go but doubt I could justify getting proper Japanese kit so I'd look to do it on the cheap.
The exception to all this is that I'd like a drinking uniform but thats a different matter entirely. That can wait a while longer perhaps, although with Pirchens nice new Italian camo perhaps sooner than I thought. 
When it comes to weapons, as much as I like guns I just tend to buy what suits a particular impression. So I end up in the same situation of keeping them as they go with my kit. The only guns I've sold are ones that I bought before I started WW2 and no longer use.
So basically I'm both a collector and a player, but getting to events comes first.
in honesty after i attended my first event i found myself buying lots of gear for the sake of it, and half of that i never used anyway.
now after selling all my gear and guns due to work difficulties, i am going to buy just what i need to get to each event, and basically try and get maybe three or four outer layers of kit to give me more options when future games come up. and will also just build and buy the guns i need for each impression.
i dont dress up indoors as i would never live it down, so to me its all about getting out there and enjoying the events ( and the p*%s up's ).
I'm firmly in the "player" camp on this. Whenever I feel I've got too much kit, I sell some of it. The kit that I have, I "maximise" it. I'm a great believer in "buy once, buy quality", so I am sometimes guilty of paying top dollar for good quality, because it will last. I have 4 RIF's, allowing a decent amount of flexibility. I once had TEN sitting in my garage, which was ludicrous! I'd be taking shedloads of guns to an event and then, end up using my MP40 for the whole 2 days! The custom guns I make are more for keeping me occupied than for having a huge collection and I've sold all but one of them on.
Take, for example, my British kit. I have a denison for doing airborne/commando/SAS/Jedburgh type scenarios. I also have battledress, which can be worn unbadged to portray any other unit in virtually any theatre of war. My American kit is all unbadged, allowing me to do any line infantry loadout without fannying about with badges (and the extra expense). I put my american loadout together for just over £100 by shopping around as well. I have a load of civvy items, allowing me to do civvy/resistance games as well and those items cost pennies. The same will go for my Russian gear. I've got a few mix and match items for each set of kit to add some variety as well. The result? I can do virtually any allied loadout and I don't have thousands of pounds worth of kit laying around. Spend wisely and you get greater flexibility, save a LOT of money and, you can actually get to events AND there's more money to spend on beer for the social!
It's taken me almost 3 years to build my kit (because I had to start from scratch with allied gear!) but I'm now at the stage where I can be happy with it. I've enough to be 99% for many loadouts and to be 75% for the rest, which is more than adequate for me.
As for talk of "elitism", that's completely unfounded and born out of bitterness from what I've seen posted on this forum. CiA have never excluded anyone based on the standard of their kit, they have chosen to exclude themselves! It's stemmed from people who have limited themselves to one loadout feeling left out because that one particular unit wasn't at a particular battle. Now, THAT is elitism, where someone expects to be accomodated as a Bersaglieri at the battle of Arras!
When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!
This all seems to hark back to CW's thread from not so long ago on - 'airsofter or reenactor discuss'
If for every pound people spent on gear, they spent equally on pertinent information and knowledge, what a wonderful place this would be. But few can say, hand on heart, that they do
Well..by that note then it sounds like you must still be waiting for your new kit to arrive then.
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