Hit taking?

I have voted "Nationality does not effect hit taking" as each nation portrayed has their equal amounts of very good players and rather poor players. No impression should get tarred with the brush of 'cheats', as this poll is likely to cause.

But.... (a bit of a but coming here) ...my own personal view is that most encounters with "not-hit-taking" on a dishonest level comes from the American faction, purely because of two fundamental reasons:

(a) New inexperianced players who don't yet get the mentality behind the experiance on WW2 airsoft, rather than as a competative game, head toward the American impressions because of the high profile on American troops in publisised recorded history, theatrical television series and war films, and the cheap and easy aquisition of kit.

(b) Those with a "glory hunter" attitude who also head toward the American impressions because of the high profile on American troops in publisised recorded history, theatrical television series and war films and thus find it almost humiliating to theirselves if they're not "victorious", or at least get a few 'kills' for everytime they're 'killed' in the game.

Obviously, the majority of those who play American are no more or less likely to not take hits than the majority of us who play British, German, Austrian, Japanese, Polish, Russian, Free French, etc... It's just that the Americans have a slightly larger minority who would.

I can't say that I've ever noticed any connection between those who don't take their hits and the nationality they are representing, I will say that very early on I had first hand evidence that WW2 uniforms and kit can cushion hits so that they are not aware they've been hit.

My very first game, A Bridge to Far, I shot a German who was facing away from me and he didn't react so I got closer and shot him again with a slightly longer burst and at that point he took his hit.

An incident at Husky showed another reason for what appears to be not taking hits this was when I was trading shots with some Americans and was accused of not taking my hits, however what ever they were using didn't have the range as I could see the bbs hitting the ground 2 to 3 feet in front of were I was shooting from.

All in all I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, (unless it's quite obvious they're being hit and know it, which in my experience of ww2 games has been extremely rare), and put it down to either they genuinely didn't feel the hit, that I missed them because I've underestimated the range or I'm just a crap shot

to add another but to McV's but:

It is also what is being played. "WW2 games are the best I have been to for hit taking" is spot on, and conversely the closer the game is to an open day, the more one tends to find ones eyes rolling at the odd infraction. Of course all I normally notice are the Germans doing it, but then again I normally only shoot at the Jerries so it would be all I notice.

Anyway to add to MCV's point I add the above. There are relatively few games that are tightly organized (otherwise known as elitist, stich-countery and re-enactor level game) which is where people learn the best of habits. It is also where people play best, so because there are more of the tighter games that feature the "British" and Russian forces then there are American forces, we are likely to associate the better standard of play with these nationalities over the game type.

Although I myself failed to take a hit at Furher's. I was running away and as I rounded the corner where Dean was he said 'you were hit then'. I said really and he said he saw the tracers hitting me. So I yell 'hit' and 'sorry' up the tunnel at the German(s). If Dean had not been there however I would have had no idea, would I have had more of an idea if I had been wearing Russian kit? I doubt it.

Yes some good points McVickers, and I certainly dont mean to tar any group with the brush of cheats, a serious topic but I must confess to it being a bit tongue in cheek although I have voted for American there is one group of yanks active on the forum I have never had any problems with largely down to them having a very good attitude towards the hobby.

Also of course as Pete says we have to give the benefit of the doubt, calling cheat all the time during a game is nearly as bad as cheating itself. Im sure I have been hit myself and not taken it unknowlingly. Though thats differant from one game I attended in the not to distance past when I saw two enemy soldiers emerge from the woods, fired a burst at them which clearly splatterred across the chest off both individuals, they looked down at their chests, looked up couldnt see anyone and both ran back in the woods..WTF! It wouldnt have been so bad exept that after several hours of play that was my the first time I had hit anyone

I've seen blatant non hit taking by all types of uniform. If someones a cheating dick, he's a cheating dick no matter what he wears. Personally, when I've encountered non hit taking, I've just switched from aiming centre mass, to shooting them in the face, which always works really well for some reason.

From my own experience there are a few more factors that go with hit taking rather than uniform:

a) If your running, especially if your moving through woodland dodging branches and the like that sometimes it easier to not feel a hit.

b) what your being shot at with, i am sure its easier to feel a burst from an smg than a single shot from a rifle. that also when your getting the fewer kills you tend to when using a rifle can escalate the annoyance of non hit taking.

c) where your hit, i know it sounds stupid but if your pinged on the knuckle or somewhere were you got less padding then thats going to effect the knowledge of whether you been hit.

Tim i see your point as i have played along with people who have had issues with certain factions but i am choosing not to put a vote in the poll because i dont believe that its an issue.

I've seen blatant non hit taking by all types of uniform. If someones a cheating dick, he's a cheating dick no matter what he wears. Personally, when I've encountered non hit taking, I've just switched from aiming centre mass, to shooting them in the face, which always works really well for some reason.

My name is HeadShot and I endorse this message.

I voted for Nationality does not effect hit taking, as I have seen non hit taking on all sides and it has been by new/newer players as well as those from the mentioned 'tightly organized groups' which was very sad to see as myself and the 3 other players who saw it were just stunned by the blatant way he just turned and ran off after taking several hits.
My own experience of having a team mate point out I'd been hit on my very baggy Lufty tropical trousers, which I didn't feel at all, leads me to give
people the benefit of the doubt before I let it give me the hump, this was not the case in above incident.
I play my game as honest and fairly as I can, if others don't then they are missing out and thats up to them in my opinion.
But in saying above, non hitting taking in WW2 games is very rare which is just another thing that makes the games so much more enjoyable.

I rather cringed at this post I'm afraid. I think this is probably the first time the issue has been posted on the forum in six years which gives a pretty clear indication of the standard both expected and attained in what, 50 events?

Still, replies so far have been considered and measured so that is good stuff - but finger pointing or less than mature posts will be very disappointing. Keep the good vibes chaps...

Like CW I was a tad worried on seeing this, but so far we have nice reasoned responses. Nationality is not the issue, in experience plays a far greater role. We all have a responsibility to ensure fair play. It's our experience which is lessened. And just to add to the debate, how may times have we misjudged the range of our weapons, swearing blindly we hit when they have dropped short. Repeated abuse of non hit taking, point it out to the game organisers. No point in letting it ruin your day. I for one would prefer to call a possible hit and face that ooh so long walk than not. Any way I blame the Dutch.

Japanese, definitely.

Japanese, definitely.

me an Yith? Why you cheeky...

I'd say it more the player than the nationallity

Tho I'd say sometimes you don't notice the hit because of the padding and the distance you shot from

Japanese, definitely.

:O me an Yith? Why you cheeky...

I didn't want to name names, but thankfully you've owned up!

normally i'd say its rare in ww2 airsoft but in the last two games i attended i was really appalled at the cheating and gamesmanship i saw from american players ,non hit taking aside at one game a group of american players ran into a field just out of range but in plain view(in an out of bounds area of farm field) in order to go around our flank,it was such a walk on day mentality and at the second game a group of yanks hid behind inside tunnels that we were doing a set piece break out of(that we failed) when the whole american team had been told to be outside by the organizers ,just so they could have the fun of shooting us in the back(they thought they were playing well!) ,you could see the grimace on the organizers face.i have more or less decided to veto games played against american's because a large portion of them just don't seem to get it.

The Finns. Never seen a single one take a hit

I think the question is a bit misleading though. It's more to do with what type of WWII uniform is most appealing to the reluctant hit-taker. In the rare cases of blatant cheating that I've seen, the offender is invariably togged up as something out of the ordinary. If Brit he'll be a Commando, even if it's supposed to be a regular line infantry role. If German he'll be fully-camo'd SS in a side full of Feldgrau Heer. If American, he'll be E-Company / 506 /101st, even if there is no US contingent in the game at all. Oh, and he'll never EVER be an O.R.

and at the second game a group of yanks hid behind inside tunnels that we were doing a set piece break out of(that we failed) when the whole american team had been told to be outside by the organizers ,just so they could have the fun of shooting us in the back(they thought they were playing well!) .

In fairness Gav in the case of that one they had not received the order to leave the tunnels, did not know what was going on, and just opened fire when they saw Germans in front of them

and at the second game a group of yanks hid behind inside tunnels that we were doing a set piece break out of(that we failed) when the whole american team had been told to be outside by the organizers ,just so they could have the fun of shooting us in the back(they thought they were playing well!) .

In fairness Gav in the case of that one they had not received the order to leave the tunnels, did not know what was going on, and just opened fire when they saw Germans in front of them

might have been more easily forgotten if it had not been after a long day of the same style play,but i take that back.

I think it's a very difficult one.

I've seen blatant non-hit taking or what I have assumed to be non hit-taking and I have no doubt that someone somewhere will have been annoyed at me but I have never knowingly not taken a hit and have often gone down assuming or suspecting I may have been hit with no real evidence to substantiate that. I have been told that while I thought I was safely hidden behind a tree my small pack had taken several hits as it popped its head out the other side. At the Fuhrer's escape in the tunnels I am sure I died more frequently from ricochets than direct hits and more than once I have taken branches to be bb hits.

I don't think looking down is a 100% indication of a hit, I often hear bbs hitting branches or passing close by etc and frequently look down or around me to see where they may be falling or if I have been hit, I am not necessarily responding to a perceived hit but seeking to see if I have or may have been. It's not just all the wool and webbing though - my hearing is bad at the best of times (bloody guitarists) and the headwear doesn't help either; at Sevastopol I had the Ushanka pulled down under the helmet and was in my own silent movie but even as a Brit or Yank I am always amazed at how noisy helmets are.

There is no doubt that the fall of bbs from airsoft guns in the last part of the flight must be pretty dramatic, but mine certainly seem to suffer more than most ( ).

However I would not only include bbs here I have seen blatant non-hit taking of grenade kills too - 5m is further than a lot of people seem to think.