Believing that this forum is famed for reasoned and intelligent discussions I thought it might be interesting to throw this one at you all.
I'll just prefix this by saying that, unless otherwise stated, poster's opinions are to be their own, not of any group they may be part of or represent.
Discussion should be polite and civil - there is no right or wrong, just personal opinion.
So, the proposition is "I'm an airsofter not a reenactor"
I am arguing against the statement. I was an airsofter years ago but now I am a reenactor. For some years I have worn WW2 uniforms and used WW2 guns to enact battles of the period and to get some sort of understanding of what it may have been like 70 years ago. Having grown tired of the novelty of airsoft skirmish (where players wear random uniforms and play random scenarios) it seemed a logical progression to use the realistic battling that shooting pellets at other players gives with an interest in the WW2 period and come up with something that allows a high degree of suspension of disbelief. The feeling that,for however short a time, I am there on the battlefield with my life in peril attempting to follow orders and achieve objectives.
My personal interest is not so much in kit, guns and armour (I can't remember ranks & wouldn't know one tank from another and battleships leave me cold) but in real people - how they lived and coped in such troubled and, compared to today, simple times. For the last few years I have gone to reenactment events and shows as a 'promenader' (in period attire but not part of organised display) and more latterly taking part in living history type of event, to try the water. This might be considered 'conventional' reenacting.
So why would someone who battles in authentic period kit but happen to use airsoft type of weapons not call themselves a reenactor?
I imagine because of the common perception that airsofters have of reenactors - that of anally retentive 'stitch-nazis' who care for nothing except their fixed view of what someone should be wearing. Of course, the reality is very different as I have found out by actually bothering to look at and talk with 'conventional' reenactors. Just as in many hobbies there are different branches and shades of participants. There are the type that seek to educate the public (displays at 1940s events, kit laid out for display, standing behind a rope, talking to passers by) or entertain the public (mock, staged battles in public arenas) or create living history (everything authentic, behaving and living as if in the past) or play out private battles (often famous battle recreations involving camping, digging in and firing blank firers). There are some groups that are strict on kit, even down to where it may be purchased from, and others with a more relaxed attitude. Indeed, a cursory walk round almost any show will reveal kit that would shame many an airsofter!
Now then, to put my CiA hat on for a moment, our games fall clearly into the category of 'private battle'. They often include much that could be called living history. So, we happen to use airsoft guns instead of blank firers - in all other respects we are the same, indeed it could be argued 'we' are more realistic. Look at any event video. Once you look past what people are wearing you see a fundamental difference - airsoft battles have players scurrying around, heads down, moving and firing tactically much as on a real battlefield, for no one wants to be 'killed' but blank firing battles have players stood in full view or with just the cover of a twig blasting away at an enemy who is doing just the same. As time goes on our battles will become much more like reality and less like an airsoft open day. What we do is something that is a genre all of it's own - something that takes the best of both extremes and creates something much closer to true battle enactment.
Curiously, two groups who have publicly stated on the CiA forums that they are 'airsofters not renactors' have both taken to organising displays at reenactment events. Now there's a turn up! This leads me to think that many players have completely the wrong idea of what constitutes a reenactor - perhaps the boring, opinionated and pedantic posters on other reenactment forums have something to answer for. Because they most definitely don't represent the man in the muddy field or asleep wrapped in a blanket!
So there you are. Yes, I am a reenactor (and have the card to prove it). I enact the past. I organise events that enact the past. Its fun, its educational and it gets me out of the house (but has lost me a garage to park the car in as its full of kit)!
First, let me say this, A very well written bit of wordsmithing, Chommers. Now on to the main event. The issue I have had with reenacting is as you put, the stitch counting, snidy versions, i have had the misfortune to come across. It never ceases to amaze me that despite having spet most of my life studying, collecting and generally living and breathing the war, is dismissed out of hand by some(not all I hasen to add). I feel that this is the reason I fear the stitch counting which sometime appears here. I got into WW2 airsofting because of my beard I was told in no uncertain terms I was not wanted.
Que, CIA where I was wanted and advised and generally accepted for just being a part of it. as I said before I Fear, possibly incorrectly, that going down the lines of the re enactment path may alienate the people who do want to be part of the WW2 scene.
I would strangely, despite what I have just written, consider myself a re enactor, purely for the fact that I have put a massive amount of time and effort into my various kits. They aren't perfect,yet 
but hey thats what time if for.
Un like CW, my thrust is towards the kit, the tanks, ect and due to CIA I have learned so much.
So Thanks for that. P
Yes as Guy says!
I think this group is a bridge between the two and we have to learn to accept this, I hate standard airsoft were everyone is wearing the same kit and has tape on their arms.
I also love WW2 films and the period in many ways including many of the objects used of the time, guns and vehicles.
Free speech is expensive these days!
So, the proposition is "I'm an airsofter not a reenactor"
An interesting question.
I am arguing against the statement. I was an airsofter years ago but now I am a reenactor.
I'm guessing I fall into a catagory similar to your earlier years, as I'm currently more an airsofter than re-enactor.
So why would someone who battles in authentic period kit but happen to use airsoft type of weapons not call themselves a reenactor?
Well, that kinda explains my last point a bit. I might cut about all done up in my Yank or Gerry kit, but as the site I regularly attend is still open to the more 'standard' 'softer, so it's not by any definition currently re-enacting. Perhaps in later years, I may be more the latter than former, much as you now consider yourself CW.
I certainly wouldn't think that re-enactors are overly pedantic about what they do, or at least no more so than the 'geardo' airsofters into the modern kit (at least in my limited experience) , after all, it's a passion more than anything, and if you're gonna put time and money into a hobby, you'd be daft not to try and get it as right as possible. However, just because you think you know more, or have got yer kit more 'correct' than others, it doesn't lessen their attemps.
As I attend more events like beltring and such, who knows? I might end up going full on for the re-enactor thing, or just get a bit more perfectionist about my airsoft loadout.
We are geardos you know, but both the stitch nazi and the geardo do nothing to advance the hobby. with regards to the accuracty, its all down to feedback. How you give it and how you recieve it. I have been given some very good advice on here and sadly as well some god awful, also.
Guess I've been lucky so far, I've found you lot to be a mine of usefull info! 
I'm an airsofter that has been educated now and embraced the WW2 airsoft scene. I marshall walk on airsofters and deal with all the problems that they bring because I love the sport. I also train a bunch of junior airsofters 14 - 17 year old kids who are keen to learn. I'm reasonably new to WW2 airsoft compared to a lot here but really enjoy the gameplay which doesnt need marshalling, such a pleasant relief from the usual "take your hits" brigade! I met and played alongside some re-enactors recently and was in awe of their standard of kit level. Maybe in a few years if I had the money I could aspire to such levels but I'm happy with what I've got at the moment.
The point to my rambling is, does there have to be such a definition?
I'm an aisofter, that's into the WW2 scene and aspire to get to re-enactment levels of kit, because I love the game and want to do it as best as I can.
I'd have to say that I'm an airsofter not a reenactor. After over 23 years of darkage and medieval reenactment I went looking for something a little 'lighter'.
I found airsoft 
This has dragged me into world war two and Indochine. I would like to keep it 'light' and fun. I try to slowly get my kit/gear/stuff looking correct, but I'm not going to shed a tear over short cuts and 'counts as' bits.
Koudos to those who go the extra mile in their representation, I just hope it doesn't become an us and them situation.
So far everyone seems fun and friendly and inclusive. Hope it stays that way
I've been involved in the 'stitch nazi wars' not a pretty sight, bodies every were 
Thanks to CIA for exsisting. Keep it up guys.
A sheepish ww2 Frenchman.
That was sort of the thrust of my argument Zero Bravo - there is no distinction in my eyes.
Most of what has been said on this thread up to now has been kit focussed. Airsofters are geardos, reenactors are geardos! Look past the kit though and there is so much more to gained - this isn't dressing up - what we do is period live battling.
Nice little topic
For me, the major differences are thusly:
1. As an airsofter I can decide just how far I want to take my impressions without feeling that I'm somehow not up to snuff. I expect that my Bundeswehr water bottle would make even the most relaxed re-enactor wince, especially as I've gone to so much trouble with the rest of my kit, but I'm sentimentally attached to it and I'm keeping it, so there.
2. Airsoft battles are fun. The tactics are real and you know when you've been killed. Re-enactment battles just look a bit too 
for my taste, even though they have guns that go bang.
3. The re-enactors who strive for 100% authenticity seem to be missing a few key points - they're all too old, a lot of them are too fat and most of the "Germans" can't speak German.
controversial?
When WWII airsofting became more appartant to re-enactors there was much talk about those who take part all being a bit FARBY. Kit wasn't right, modern gear was allowed, blah, blah, blah. It was probably around the time that the AGM MP40 came on the market. Suddenley there was a gun on the market that re-enactors could use at an event and if they pleased also use to go airsofting. Re-enactors became more aware of WWII airsoft events.
Myself and others thought there would be a hugh leap of re-enactors becoming WWII airsofters. Re-enacting goes a bit quite over the winter and here was a new direction to take our hobby. We all had the kit and now we had a weapon that wouldn't break the bank. WWII airsoft sections on things like the Pst forum added to this general idea. However while the airsoft community has picked up its game re-enacting hasn't. If anything there are those that think re-enacting could do with a good kick up the arse. You show a picture of guys who take part in airsofting next to guys who re-enact and there is no longer a difference. Kit levels are just as good and it is a testament to the airsoft hobby that more airsofters seem to have become re-enactors (in the old sense of the word)without any extra effort than the other way round.
There are still those re-enactors that look down thier noses at airsofting I'm sure, just as there are still re-enactors who think that unless your wearing an old RAU tunic or Janke tunic your not up to scratch. The sold called 'stitch Nazis'. 9 times out of 10 its these kind of people that give my hobby a bad name and have led others to think of it as snobby, elitist and closed off to others. However as CW states the more re-enactment events he's been to, the more he has seen this not to be the case just as people like myself who have taken an interest in airsofting have seen it for all its positive points.
I think everone on this forum that takes part in events is an airsofter just as much as they are a re-enactor and thats a great thing. Theres no reason why you can't be both, its only a term to describe the hobby you are involved with and make such an effort to get right. I hope this forum and WWII airsofting stays as fresh as it feels now, its one of the reasons I love coming on here. Theres no bitchiness, no politics and everyone seems genuienly pleased to help out his fellow hobbyist. Why typecast yourself as one thing or another, simply enjoy what you do and keep on doing it well.
Several of the groups I looked at before finding this one give the impression of being real stitch-counters . CiA kind of bridges the skirmisher/re-enactor gap, where the word "preferred" is used more often than "required". This is kind of why I've hung around - my re-kindled interest in airsoft and long-standing interest in WW2 can be combined in a non-oppressive environment that doesn't require an initial outlay of hundreds of pounds for uniform and kit, and also apparently willing to accept compromise (within reason) due to problems.
e.g. I mentioned the issue I have with a wool allergy, and one of the first replies I get here is "you can get denim BD here..."
The "counts as" rules can only serve to encourage interest and enhancement. i.e. getting into it with counts-as kit will result in the desire to get more, and more accurate kit. Turning "pure" airsofters into re-enactors.
Like it or not, if you're a ww2 airsofter, you are a reenactor already. i fail to see the distinction in that context, you're reenacting a historical event, albeit in a micro level and not always to a historical scenario, but then again, private or public battles generally aren't either.
However, the way i feel about 'reenactment events', like Crich et al, is that due to the way i look (i.e long hair and dodgy piercings) that i can't successfully hide from view, i could and would never attend one of these as a 'reenactor' in the conventional sense, as part of PBI or any other group. I've been to many, many events as a MOP, and have heard the snide comments that are bandied about regarding much less serious 'infractions' than i'd be guilty of, and my appearance would tend to invite 'stich counting', and indignant rage from the more conventional reenactors, and reflect badly on whatever group i was attending with, something i'd rather not happen.
So yeah, anyway,for me, being a reenactor, yes, being involved in conventional reenactment, no.
The "counts as" rules can only serve to encourage interest and enhancement. i.e. getting into it with counts-as kit will result in the desire to get more, and more accurate kit. Turning "pure" airsofters into re-enactors.
This was always my view with re-enactment. I'd rather have a new guy starting the hobby wearing the old Chinese made stuff that not start at all. The longer your involved the more you strieve to imporove your lot. More members lend more weight to the hobby and gets rid of some public misconceptions.
Theres no reason why you can't be both
Because WWII re-enactment seems to be mostly the preserve of white males. How many re-enactment societies could Marsha join?
Am I an airsofter or a reenactor?
I would say that I am a reenactor. I do like to role-play a character, and also to ‘game’, and airsoft managed to fulfil these desires. As the Napoleonic period has been a long term interest for me I have, on many an occasion, looked at re-enacting that, but have always found the idea of a choreographed battle (not to mention the video clips of 7 cavalry standing limply next to a group of infantry waving their swords about with a distinct lack of lustre) a bit of a farce. One day I will pluck up the courage to ask if I can just go and do the period camping, but not yet.
I do try to get the kit as accurate as I can afford and am capable, and the collector side of me enjoys making up the little lists of kit I need/want and searching around for it. I think I agree with Chomely that it is getting into the feel of the period (if he did say that?) rather than the strict accuracy of the kit and will as time goes on, move towards camping at the social in totally period (or period feel) equipment. Because I think that sounds fun.
Though one of the reasons I would define myself as a reenactor is that I am not an airsofter.
Having been to an open day I found it fun, but as a sideline. I will go again (not least as it is a way of me actually getting some exercise) but if I didn’t have the few WWII people to play with there it would quickly loose appeal, I think.
I am also not a geardo (if I have understood the term properly) I have listened on the forum and understand the feet per second and rate of fire, but it doesn’t excite me. I would happily spend an entire game as a Heer clerk with a period typewriter doing fake paperwork in the German garrison whilst commandos resolutely do not attack me (not a hint for September at all ). I am also happy to play on the battle line and have always tried to approach my playing as reenacting a soldier, rather than playing a game, such as when holding a position I try and become bored and distracted after a while (assuming I had manned that post for more than 15 minutes on a Sunday) and such.
Because WWII re-enactment seems to be mostly the preserve of white males. How many re-enactment societies could Marsha join?
If you accept my premise that what we do IS reenactment, no problemo. Over-weight, over-age, over-bearded AND we have females taking the part of males - and no one blinks an eye. We are the 'new' reenactment movement, so new its barely three years old. Old traditional reenactment conventions are out of the window.
Because WWII re-enactment seems to be mostly the preserve of white males. How many re-enactment societies could Marsha join?
If you accept my premise that what we do IS reenactment, no problemo. Over-weight, over-age, over-bearded AND we have females taking the part of males - and no one blinks an eye. We are the 'new' reenactment movement, so new its barely three years old. Old traditional reenactment conventions are out of the window.
Vive to that and éclairs all round.
Yes, I''l buy into that.
And Wladek mate, join the queue for Heer clerk. You need to EARN a gig like that
And Wladek mate, join the queue for Heer clerk. You need to EARN a gig like that
crap. Unter-clerk?