To coin the phrase.
'its what I can do for my hobby.'
Right first off this is not a rant or a moan about anyone in particular so don't anyone take it personal.
Last year WW2 airsoft took a bit of a kicking with event after event being cancelled and it looks as if that trend is now continuing into 2014. With news now that one event has been cancelled and another three stand on the point of being pulled I just want to understand where the general lack of interest has come from.
I got into WW2 airsoft after getting completely dis hearted with open day skirmish events and found a like minded group of players who for all the experience is the most guiding factor and that's the core element on what WW2 airsoft should be about.
Where do we want our events to go? do we want, and I hope god we don't, more SISK based events?
Are we heading toward a niche where the more experience based games are thrown into smaller venues because numbers cant be reached to provide adequate funding to get to bigger and better sites? Because many organisers will just at the end not bother.
So this is a rallying cry! There are people passionate about this hobby that go out of their way to host events and travel length and breadth of country to support the events. So the big question goes out to everyone are you doing enough to support the scene or not?
And please don't feel you have to defend yourselves with the I attend as many events as I can because of a/b/or c because if you are attending as many events as you can then you can say you are doing all you can and that's the basis of the question so well done.
I think there is somewhat of a schism developing in WW2 between newer players and veterans. New players attend the most accessable games to 'give it a go'. Some of the more experienced players avoid some of these games as they prefer to only attend "their type of game" and then moan when these get cancelled due to lack of interest.
My first WW2 game was Josh's Minsk game. I was so impressed with the veteran players, not only the quality of their impressions but their whole way of doing things and their attitude that I decided that was what I had to aim for. Perhaps if more veterans attended some more of the mainstream events it would help to self promote the more niche games?
New Guy here.
Sadly travelling will be my "thorn in the foot". I live up in Dundee, Scotland so all the big events are a hell of a journey. Not that I'm afraid of attending them for sure. (Driven to Ground Zero twice over night).
There is an event up here at Players of War where it would appear that in the region of 30+ players will be attending. Hopefully that's the start of something awesome as generally my local site is 10+ players (great for themed games). My hope is my pushing can get a German team together that's willing to go on tour. I mean we have two MG42's so...
As an aside, not 'the start of something new' - Ernie has been running WW2 themed stuff at his site for years now, I'm sure you will have a great time.
Plus you are blessed north of the border as Warren runs WW2 stuff at his own site too. Loads of travelling to be done within Scotland for sure, but you must be used to it!
People just need to attend games. Some people by the looks of the "medals" have only attended 1 game in the last 12 months!
As an aside, not 'the start of something new' - Ernie has been running WW2 themed stuff at his site for years now, I'm sure you will have a great time.
Plus you are blessed north of the border as Warren runs WW2 stuff at his own site too. Loads of travelling to be done within Scotland for sure, but you must be used to it!
By "something awesome" I mean getting a German unit together 
Warren runs the Dundee site 
Been to his workshop of dreams in the past too... sooo much lovely stuff.
I think BigKie has a pretty clear view on the scene , some of the most vocal people that are encouraging support for games have not been present at the three games i have attended this year , there is a split in the player base with many veterans not attending "that sort of game " and many newer players feeling ill prepared to attend the more niche events .
armoury
m1a1 Thompson,sten mk2,mp40,stg44,sterling,mk2 bren gun,lee Enfield no4 mk1,Mauser Kar98, Walther ppk,smith and Weston m10 and Mauser m712
Give me a big enough hammer and a place to stand and I could fix the world.
i'll kill a man in a fair fight or if i think he's going to start a fair fight or over a woman or.......
a problem shared is a problem halved ,but an advantage shared is no advantage at all
if a job's not worth doing then its certainly not worth doing well
Attendance at the four events I've been to this year have been good, so it's not a lack of interest in WW2 airsoft. Travel seems to be the main issue. The second seems to be a focus on 'battle' orientated events that attempt to recreate an aspect of a campaign and offer a squad focus with the offer of a lot of shooting and/or tactical play. The third is simply an issue of comfort.
If the game looks too physically demanding and involves a lot of travel, with pretty Spartan camping, I don't think people will book on in large numbers. Unfortunate, but truth be told, if it involves a three hour or more drive to run yourself in to the ground for six hours, then camp in the the ball sack end of no where, people won't do it. Sign of the times unfortunately; people like creature comforts and when you have to shit in the woods at 2am I just don't think people can be bothered with it.
It's not exactly a cheap hobby, so attracts those with a steady income most of whom seem to be over thirty. If they had to choose between a local site where they can get a game in, go back home and watch Match of the Day with a beer in the evening with the wife and kids, or travel for hours then rough it camping, they'll chose the former. Personally I get that and speaking as someone whose father sodded off when he was two, I applaud any bloke on here who doesn't book on to a game because they'll be away from their kids for a few days. I certainly find it hard to criticise them for it anyway.
Personally I've shelled out too much money on this not to attend games; I'd be prepared to attend almost anywhere in the U.K to use the kit that would otherwise gather dust in the wardrobe. Then again, I don't have any kids, my missus gives me a long leash, money ain't a problem and I like travelling. Not everyone can do that.
There is a certain element of 'you can't win, no matter what you do' to all this. Obviously 'veterans' won't shell out a hundred quid or more, travel the length of the country and waste a valuable weekend to have a mediocre game just to support new entrants (but yes, I have done it, several times). Hell, we started this genre to get away from mediocre, samey, blatty ill-thought-out airsoft games! No doubt a few of the new entrants may progress to attend further games but it is remarkable how few. Very few, especially the youngsters. Obvious really, as Allenby says, you need time and money to play WW2 airsoft with any commitment.
But anyway, rather than split the players into veterans and newbies (rather divisive, the same as north and south is) how about committed and non-committed, or casual and enthusiastic?
I personally left 'shooty' airsoft behind years ago and look for something challenging, something more realistic, something historically accurate, something with a bit of thought gone into a scenario and planning. I won't do Vietnam, Cold War or Cowboys because I am an enthusiast and cheerleader for the WW2 airsoft genre. But WW2 airsoft is a niche, and the sorts of games I enjoy are a niche of a niche now. I just have to accept that.
And I think is is a good thing that there is a mix of game styles, there is something for everyone, player choice is good. Currently players flock to a local game, they don't want to travel and most likely they don't want to camp. That is no criticism, that's just how it is. But in five years time will they be doing the same thing, or will they be looking for something more? Think back to your old open day airsoft days - first few games are amazing then it gets a bit meh. So you start obsessing with kit or try out other club sites. That gets boring and you either become a marshal or chuck it in for a more interesting pastime (or get a girlfriend/wife/car/mortgage/golf clubs). Really, shooting people doesn't have much longevity, and WW2 airsoft needs both breadth AND depth if it is to flourish.
So, it is not that there are too many games but rather too few players prepared to put the time and money to attend. Plenty of games, plenty of players with kit (hell, even players without kit). And there's my big beef - too many people collect kit and don't attend games. This is partly a blokey thing of course and in particular an airsoft thing - obsessive amassing of the next 'loadout' and I don't suppose there is anything much to be done about it.
Kieren asks Where do we want our events to go? Well, I want a mix, something for everyone. The balance at the moment is in the 'casual' camp and I'd it would be great if there was more commitment and enthusiasm - the sort of enthusiasm that pushes WW2 airsoft higher up the list of life's priorities. Well, I can wish...
But in five years time will they be doing the same thing, or will they be looking for something more? Think back to your old open day airsoft days - first few games are amazing then it gets a bit meh.
Good point
But in five years time will they be doing the same thing, or will they be looking for something more? Think back to your old open day airsoft days - first few games are amazing then it gets a bit meh.
Good point
Yep seconded, So players must look and think do they need to support all styles of event because at the end of it all there maybe no choice left, or there maybe no one with the experience to put on said style of event.
No doubt a few of the new entrants may progress to attend further games but it is remarkable how few. Very few, especially the youngsters.
See the thing is, it's negative comments like this that might make new players think "sod it then, all they seem to do is moan about things not going the way they want. I'll look elsewhere".
As a youngster, I can say that it's not as easy as just doing. Travel costs, travel distances and age limits can make things very difficult, regardless of level of enthusiasm. I just don't get why this can't be acknowledged and taken into consideration when people are looking to point the finger.
Obviously 'veterans' won't shell out a hundred quid or more, travel the length of the country and waste a valuable weekend to have a mediocre game just to support new entrants (but yes, I have done it, several times).
But surely an attitude of "one step back, two steps forward" should be taken when it comes to this sort of thing. You see, because the only sort of contact that you and a few of the other veterans have had with the new players has basically been slating them for not being "committed" enough, and then slating them once more for not booking on to your games, they might feel a bit intimidated and not want to go out of their way to support your events.
Also I'd like to ask what you mean by just new entrants. New entrants are the future of the hobby and maybe if some of the veterans showed their faces at these "mediocre" events, they might decide that infact you are pleasant chaps and that they will bite the bullet and book on to some of the more "niche" events.
Personally, I'll go to any event I can get to/afford. I'll be going to the Normandy game in June (will be booking soon) and I am hoping to get to the Copenhagen game in September, just need to finalise travel arrangements. I won't let the way other people think/feel get in the way of me enjoying myself, I'm extremely enthusiastic about WW2 airsoft and will do everything I can to support the hobby.
Better organising car shares is a start; the 'I can't get there' argument shouldn't really be an issue. It's surprising the number of people on here who live close to you.
Also I'd like to ask what you mean by just new entrants. New entrants are the future of the hobby and maybe if some of the veterans showed their faces at these "mediocre" events, they might decide that infact you are pleasant chaps and that they will bite the bullet and book on to some of the more "niche" events.
You might want to take a look at Chommers' games ribbons before you start levelling that criticism at him.
No doubt a few of the new entrants may progress to attend further games but it is remarkable how few. Very few, especially the youngsters.
See the thing is, it's negative comments like this that might make new players think "sod it then, all they seem to do is moan about things not going the way they want. I'll look elsewhere".
As a youngster, I can say that it's not as easy as just doing. Travel costs, travel distances and age limits can make things very difficult, regardless of level of enthusiasm. I just don't get why this can't be acknowledged and taken into consideration when people are looking to point the finger.
Not in slightest bit negative, just the truth. I know because I have been around the WW2 thing for donkey's years and I see it with my own eyes, I see it on the forum. Youngsters come and go with more rapidity than any other age group. For the reasons Allenby stated earlier, it is those later in life who are most able to stick at it and pursue an expensive and time consuming hobby. It isn't a criticism, just the way it is.
And by the way it isn't easy for anyone to spare the time or money, don't play the victim here. And I certainly didn't have the disposable income that you have at 17. It wasn't until I was 45 that I was able to pursue the luxury of a hobby and indulge myself a bit. 
There have been plenty of 'veterans' at all events on the calendar - you wouldn't know that because you have only been to one event (and there were plenty at that event too). And since you are having a pop at me, I have attended events all over the country as a player, organised events all over the country and, year after year, pay for and run a forum and website to help support all players, organisers and games without fear or favour.
See you in September by the way. 
PS I didn't say just new entrants, you misunderstood and misread my carefully crafted prose. 
deep breath guy's , this topic is a broad question and not intended to victimize anybody , looking at individual reasons for non attendance of a single person will achieve nothing ,we need to look at the most common reasons why many people don't attend , maybe somebody with the skill's could run a poll on most common reasons for non attending ? if it is just some stupid thing like travel costs keeps 20% of players away then more car sharing could be an answer we need to explore more deeply .
armoury
m1a1 Thompson,sten mk2,mp40,stg44,sterling,mk2 bren gun,lee Enfield no4 mk1,Mauser Kar98, Walther ppk,smith and Weston m10 and Mauser m712
Give me a big enough hammer and a place to stand and I could fix the world.
i'll kill a man in a fair fight or if i think he's going to start a fair fight or over a woman or.......
a problem shared is a problem halved ,but an advantage shared is no advantage at all
if a job's not worth doing then its certainly not worth doing well
It's been done to death though, hell there is a live stickied poll at the very top of this section should you wish to partake!
There have been posts regarding why people aren't attending. Maybe for a change we could argue about how to solve the common problems.
The main one is transport, whether it is the travelling time, petrol costs, lack of a vehicle...
To start the ball rolling, here are a few ideas for people to shoot down in flames:
Regional sub forums to arrange groups to travel to further away games, meet up for walk ons etc.
Hire a minibus/coach to travel the length of the country picking up people at certain locations (close to train/bus stations).
There have been posts regarding why people aren't attending. Maybe for a change we could argue about how to solve the common problems.
The main one is transport, whether it is the travelling time, petrol costs, lack of a vehicle...
To start the ball rolling, here are a few ideas for people to shoot down in flames:
Regional sub forums to arrange groups to travel to further away games, meet up for walk ons etc.
Hire a minibus/coach to travel the length of the country picking up people at certain locations (close to train/bus stations).
Regional forums would divide things even more, I think. I don't know if there is a north/south divide in WW2 airsoft, but dividing things in to ever greater regional groups can't be a good thing.
Having a detailed list of where everyone is in the country for planning events could be an idea; but then it doesn't magically get people to them, it's just a list of names and locations, STASI style. Ultimately it has to be down to the individual to get up and get motivated to get to a game.
I'll be perfectly honest here. I've been there, done that, and got burnt out a bit. I've not bought a piece of ww2 kit in probably three years now.
Unless I'm working it, as I have done with some GMA games, it takes a very special ww2 game these days to get my attention, and being honest, only Hut 9 has got what I'm looking for in a game as a player so far this year. Wladek's early war rifles game is another contender, but I don't have a reliable rifle, so that's currently out.
In short, generic 'everyone against everyone' games don't interest me as a player, unless I'm at the back, co-ordinating units and basically playing a big, silly game of chess with people, then it's great fun.
