There does seem to be a bit of a playground mentality in that it's all a bit 'it's my game, my rules, and if you don't do what I say, you can't play'. And I can understand that if a paying adult gets bored of being told what to do, it doesn't seem too unreasonable that they would want to do their own thing, BUT on the other hand i can see why it would be annoying for those who do want to play as part of a squad and not have packs of wolves running around doing their own thing. But then again it is just a game and weather people want to be realistic or just want to do their own thing is really up to them as they are paying and would like to get (what they would consider) their moneys worth.
So you're saying that if I got to a game based around a theme with a published set of rules its ok to just do what i like if i get bored or decide i dont like the rules?
surely if you think its rubbish or you're bored you talk to the organiser, get a refund if you can and go home... not stuff it up for everyone else who *isnt* bored?
I know at PBI events if anyone ever came up to us and said 'i didnt enjoy that' or said they were bored or felt the game wasnt any good we'd have refunded them, i think we might have done that once too but i'm not sure. It's been a while.
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
There does seem to be a bit of a playground mentality in that it's all a bit 'it's my game, my rules, and if you don't do what I say, you can't play'. And I can understand that if a paying adult gets bored of being told what to do, it doesn't seem too unreasonable that they would want to do their own thing, BUT on the other hand i can see why it would be annoying for those who do want to play as part of a squad and not have packs of wolves running around doing their own thing. But then again it is just a game and weather people want to be realistic or just want to do their own thing is really up to them as they are paying and would like to get (what they would consider) their moneys worth.
I'm speaking theoretically here, because I don't think the below was the case for the Gothic event...
Would you consider a minority of players ruining an event, that was promoted as a very specific scenario and rule set, for the majority of other players and the organisers and fair thing to do? Would doing what they pleased, just so they could play the game they wanted and not the one that was advertised, be fair on the money's worth of the other players attending who were following the scenario and rules to the letter?
I don't understand why people think ignoring the rules and scenario of an event just to get what they consider to be their money's worth is acceptable. It would be like going to a snooker match and chanting like you were at a football match just because you wanted to do that and get your money's worth.
@ wladek: If you pay for something, you want to get your money's worth regardless if its profit or non profit.
And gadge and headshot I am not saying that its ok, im simply saying that its understandable.
And I can understand that if a paying adult gets bored of being told what to do, it doesn't seem too unreasonable that they would want to do their own thing
It doesn't sound like a very adult way of behaving.
just want to do their own thing is really up to them as they are paying and would like to get (what they would consider) their moneys worth.
If you pay to go in to a cinema to see a film and then "do your own thing" with a ghetto blaster and a lightshow, that's okay? Especially if a load of other people have paid to watch that film? If the event you have paid for is boring then leave and don't book on to any more events which are similar, and if you think the organiser is to blame you could courteously ask for a refund on your way out.
@ wladek: If you pay for something, you want to get your money's worth regardless if its profit or non profit.
And gadge and headshot I am not saying that its ok, im simply saying that its understandable.
Do not think of it as paying for something, think of it is clubbing together to cover costs... Think of it as contributing to petrol money if someone gives you a lift - just because you are doing so does not give you the right to demand to change the route if you are bored, or ask the driver to not stop for a coffee because you want to get home.
View it as the organisers doing you a favour putting the work in for there to be games for you to attend, your little payment towards the costs is a tiny thank you for their effort.
If you don't like what they put together, and you had not gathered that from the information present, then you simply don't attend again.
@ wladek: If you pay for something, you want to get your money's worth regardless if its profit or non profit.
And gadge and headshot I am not saying that its ok, im simply saying that its understandable.
Understandable to whom? I don't understand it. If it's a justification for such behaviour, I don't think it's a valid one. Everything you pay for in life comes with a promise of what to expect. In consumerist circles that's known as a product description.
If you buy a product you must only expect it to be capable of doing what it is described to do. If it doesn't do that you are entitled to some sort of explanation. If a product doesn't do something that you expect it to do, when that thing isn't described as being capable of that, you've only yourself to blame for buying it.
If I bought a television it would be unreasonable of me to expect it to give me a blow job, for example. However, if I hired a prostitute and all she did was reenact repeats of Homes Under The Hammer, I may have some reason to complain.
The rules are the rules. They are made clear when you book on and re-iterated at game brief. I know for absolute certain that any player who approached Josh and said that, on reflection, he didn't think that this style of game was his cup of tea, would get a full refund with no hard feelings at all.
As with any game, the rules apply to all. It's not a buffet where you can pick the bits you like and leave the bits you don't 
As with any game, the rules apply to all. It's not a buffet where you can pick the bits you like and leave the bits you don't
I want to try to run an event like this as a proof of concept that it'll be a clusterfuck.
It doesn't sound like a very adult way of behaving.
Yes it does.
And your whole cinema analogy doesn't really work, sooo yeah.
And wladek: call it what you like, your still paying to do something.
Headshot: you may not understand it, but some people don't like to be told to do things they don't want to.
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Headshot: you may not understand it, but some people don't like to be told to do things they don't want to.
Then WHY on earth go to a game that you know in advance has squad leaders and company commanders?
What do you think they are there for, ornamentation? 
If you dont like being told what to do then playing organised battle games that replicate WWII probably isnt the best genre for you, whereas an open day you can do what you like (within reason).
I'm not having a go , i just really cannot understand why you would contribute £50 to the running of a well advertised event with clear expectations of the players and then decide you didnt want to do it!
"I think we are in rats' alley - Where the dead men lost their bones."
It doesn't sound like a very adult way of behaving.
Yes it does.
And your whole cinema analogy doesn't really work, sooo yeah.
And wladek: call it what you like, your still paying to do something.
Headshot: you may not understand it, but some people don't like to be told to do things they don't want to.
I think I do understand. People book to come to an event which is explicitly advertised and promoted around the idea that they WILL be told what to do. They turn up and don't like being told what to do, so they do what they want. They spoil the event for others.
If people don't like being told what to do, then I would suggest politely that WW2 airsoft might not be something they would enjoy. The entire MO of WW2 airsoft revolves around being told what to do!
If these people want to do things as they want, then the only solution would be to organise their own events.
FWIW I think CHThree's analogy is a good one. Life is beset with rules (explicit or implied) that you should adhere to, be that at work, at play or in wider society in general. People that don't follow these rules are considered impolite, or uncooperative, or creating misconduct, or to take it to its extreme behaving criminally. Not following the rules can and will have consequences. You'll be ignored, ostracised, sacked or arrested.
I'm just speaking theoretically, but sometimes it's more how you're being told and who is doing the telling.
[EDIT] I don't think the analogy CHThree used was a good one as it too far exaggerated.
I'm just speaking theoretically, but sometimes it's more how you're being told and who is doing the telling.
Yeah, that's what all those WW2 soldiers told their sergeants. 
Eeerm, none of us are ww2 soldiers, and few of us hold the rank of sergeant.
some people don't like to be told to do things they don't want to.
but some people are acting as if these ideas were suddenly sprung on them. They were made very very clear at the start.
What would you think of a football player that wants to handle the ball, the rugby player that wants to pass forward, the darts player that wants four darts instead of three? - and claims that some people just don't like to be told to do things they don't want to?
Would you support their wishes to have their preferences accepted and accommodated?
Or would you tell them to feck off and not bugger it up for everyone else?
I have no interest in any of those sports so I couldn't care less about what they did.
[EDIT] and all those things you have just stated are against the rules and would be considered as cheating, lone wolfing, as far I'm concerned isn't.
FFS i'm getting bored of this now. Yes 'loan wolfing' IS against the laws of the game that the organisers plan, at Gothic Line it was clearly stated in the brief, no one moves out with less than three people - so its exactly the same as picking up a football and throwing it into the goal. Unfortunately there isnt an International Federation of WW2 Airsofters to write a nice rule book that says exactly what people can and cannot do, but as far as 99% of folk on this forum agree with...yes, it is against the rules!
Yes, against the rules for gothic line, and if your so bored of it why are you posting?
Because I can't believe that a minority of posters don't understand and think that they know more than lots of very, very experienced WW2 players (not including myself, i'm a newbie compared to the others!). Its like me walking into my Chief Executive's office at work, telling her she is doing it all wrong and my way would be much, much better - despite having far less experience in the sector
Because I can't believe that a minority of posters don't understand and think that they know more than lots of very, very experienced WW2 players (not including myself, i'm a newbie compared to the others!). Its like me walking into my Chief Executive's office at work, telling her she is doing it all wrong and my way would be much, much better - despite having far less experience in the sector
Actually in regard to the recent posts it is more like ME walking in your Chief Executive's office at work, telling her she is doing it all wrong and my way would be much, much better - despite not having a clue what you do. 
