Playing nice togehter.... not hard is it.. sort it out!

Trouble is the 101st weren't at every part of the WWII conflict - so if that's the ONLY unit you ever want to represent then it becomes a limitation, no? Everyone has to make their own decisions but considering how "niche" WWII airsofting is it doesn't seem to make any sense to make that niche even smaller. Just my opinion.

About as niche as you can get really...

Playing US only limits you t games set after 1942 so you miss half the war, playing 101st limits you to three operations and a very limited role in one of them (market garden). I in no way think 'nobody should play 101st' I just think its silly to expect them to be written into scenarios in which they simply were not part of. We all strive for a realistic feel to our games no matter where you play. Having US paras 'saving the day' in a dunkirk game would clearly be ludicrous and disrespectful to the British, German ans French soldiers who fought and died there.

Note that PBI portray South Staffords as our primary impression... we're also acutely aware the South Staff equally fought in a very limited capacity (and are an equally high profile unit to anyone who knows anything about British Airborne). With only really Arnhem and Husky as large scale combat operations we chose to have alternative units so we can portray commandoes, oxf and bucks, hallamshires or SAS with just the change of a badge rather than changing history.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that you have chosen to massively limit yourself and cant really complain if the unit you've decided to be exclusively isnt included at the majority of games... unless you just want an open day style blat in WWII kit...

I think we just have to accept that some players are interested in history and others are more interested in running round in cool gear. Neither is right or wrong, it's a personal choice,but since there are organised events to suit both factions, everyone should be happy!

Anyhoo, well done Spiers for making a good stab at outlining Dog Company's position. Every forum at some point will have a group flounce off in a huff, its the nature of the beast, but as long as it is clear that they left and no one has been banned (or any such -ness). Still, groups lurking in their own hidden forum does nothing for the WW2 scene in general - that is why ALL groups are welcome to have their own private space on this forum. The only proviso is that it must be visible to everyone, including non-registered guests, since this gives outsiders an idea of the full extent of WW2 group activity and also prevents just this destructive posting that Gadge pointed out when he started this thread.

About as niche as you can get really...

And even then the M42 Jump suits were only used by the 101st in ONE of those campaigns.

While I have no problem with the 101st guys and I know that it interests alot of players (myself included), what I dont like seing is 101st at games based on events they wernt at (Husky) and games where the kit is just wrong (Mist) both beacause its historicaly incorrect and it kind of destracts from the effort other people make having the right kit, especialy when all it would need is a badge change or a greatcoat which is next to no effort at all, and it just kind of destracts from the imersion and reminds you your playing airsoft.

members left the forum because they were being called things like disrespectful to the vets of units they were portraying by not having their belt straight or wearing their cap wrong. That's not an opinion either, that's a fact.

I haven't seen any post on this forum that has come anywhere close to that.

I belive there was some "debate" over a dog company pic a while back in which some of the guys webbing was considered (scruffy) but I know this is the exact look Dog company go for and I think they look smashing.

I think if dog company was to use these forums more often and become a permanent group, they could expand alot more and even arange there own BOB film sim events based around the 101st making them realistic and immersive, I would be very interested in that and as you guys have a passion for it I think you could make some prietty good games, so I think you guys should put whatever might have happened in the past behind you and start working together with everyone else.

I do not believe that using phrases like 'cock snorklers' is a productive way of promoting any relationship between two groups, thats not my opinion either, it's a fact.

Equally, neither is people who should know better posting blatant falsehoods about other groups, which is the sole reason this topic came up. That's another fact.

However, ignoring that for the present, seeing as it's gone, or at least 'invisible' now. As plenty of others have mentioned, if you really *only* want to play one niche group, that's fine, but you'll have to realise it does severely limit what games you can play. That's why, in PBI, we portray what, 5 different niche groups that can fit in pretty much anywhere during the war, in any European Theatre game.

Also, you have a group of you together now, why not put on your own 'Dog Company' games? It's why we put PBI together, afterall. Sure it's a ball-ache at times, but it's the only way you'll get games exactly the way *you* want to play them.

Anyhoo, well done Spiers for making a good stab at outlining Dog Company's position.

Thankyou CW and the rest of the users who followed my post, for the constructive answers, I'm hoping they remain constructive I was trying to be as fair as possible in my statement so as to not try and offend anyone...I probably have though haha.

And even then the M42 Jump suits were only used by the 101st in ONE of those campaigns.

While I have no problem with the 101st guys and I know that it interests alot of players (myself included), what I dont like seing is 101st at games based on events they wernt at (Husky) and games where the kit is just wrong (Mist) both beacause its historicaly incorrect and it kind of destracts from the effort other people make having the right kit, especialy when all it would need is a badge change or a greatcoat.

You are right mate and a few of the men did get greatcoats, the problem was on the day it actually wasn't THAT cold that Greatcoats were needed. By the time I reached the CP from where the cars were parked I was sweating my arse off because I had it on...thats before we ever started shooting.

I belive there was some "debate" over a dog company pic a while back in which some of the guys webbing was considered (scruffy) but I know this is the exact look Dog company go for and I think they look smashing.

Yes this is the same topic which I was talking about and you may've thought they looked smashing but there were other members who outright told them that they were disrespecting the Vets by wearing their kit in that way which I think was an INCREDIBLY unfair thing to say to anyone. Just in addition to this, if you look at ANY pics of Airborne units immediately pre and post jump in Normandy they look as 'scruffy' as hell and I think they're bloody brilliant for it.

Some people want different things out of airsofting and if they don't have the kit, they don't complain that they can't come to the game they get the kit or don't come. Some people are happy waiting for a game to roll around where they can use their kit then make the most of it. I can't remember in the near future where there has been any complaining that people couldn't come to a game because they only had 101st gear.

There was also a quote earlier about not being allowed to come to the Arnhem game as US AB, well I was the only one that queried it and I accepted it with out argument and came in kit which I'd bought especially for the event so I'm not sure what's going on there.

And even then the M42 Jump suits were only used by the 101st in ONE of those campaigns.

While I have no problem with the 101st guys and I know that it interests alot of players (myself included), what I dont like seing is 101st at games based on events they wernt at (Husky) and games where the kit is just wrong (Mist) both beacause its historicaly incorrect and it kind of destracts from the effort other people make having the right kit, especialy when all it would need is a badge change or a greatcoat.

You are right mate and a few of the men did get greatcoats, the problem was on the day it actually wasn't THAT cold that Greatcoats were needed. By the time I reached the CP from where the cars were parked I was sweating my arse off because I had it on...thats before we ever started shooting.

lol I wore a greatcoat at Bryanks for the entire first day and I belive that was the hottest day of the year I remember being mentioned somewhere, but thats my dedication to wearing my loadout no matter how uncomfortable no matter what, either that or im mad ;D

What I would like to see you guys do is like I said before some neich games intrically focused on the real Dog companies efforts in the war similar to PBI's squad based games I think that could be very interesting and they you can also bring in authentic US squad tactics ect which I feel would realy help bing your team together more.

There was also a quote earlier about not being allowed to come to the Arnhem game as US AB, well I was the only one that queried it and I accepted it with out argument and came in kit which I'd bought especially for the event so I'm not sure what's going on there.

At the risk of a necro row..

Actually you argued the toss about easy co being at the battle for Arnhem until proved wrong and then on the day arrived in your US kit and we had to wait and delay the game while you and oddball fannied about getting changed...

I distinctly remember being quite pissed off about it at the time. All water under the bridge now though.

Personal bug bear btw... as a member of a regiment that *was* part of an allied Airborne division please remember that 'Airborne' does NOT mean exclusively US troops.. its an Italian concept, pioneered by the Russians & perfected by the UK and the Germans - The United States got in on the game rather late when it comes to Airborne forces.

Is this going to be a never ending thread that just gets nowhere? I am very saddened by it all, come on people get a grip and move on.

Well it would help if some folk apologised for publicly slating CiA and PBI on other forums...

I belive there was some "debate" over a dog company pic a while back in which some of the guys webbing was considered (scruffy) but I know this is the exact look Dog company go for and I think they look smashing.

For those that don't know, this was a forum conversation FIVE months ago in which Headshot made a comment, sort of in passing, "It's about looking right and not doing a disservice to those who made the sacrifices." in reference to being dressed properly (and the proposition was supported by a real American!). OK, it might have been phrased a little better (indeed on a subsequent post he said "Perhaps my closing line was a little uncalled for, but that's my opinion, so I said it.") but biguk and Aitch of Dog Company pointed out they were just airsofters, indeed biguk also admitted to a wealth of 'errors' on a photo taken for AI magazine (I know that in the pics i am wearing a garand belt with a carbine holster. That was due to a late change in weapon selection and wardrobe. I didnt have enough time to change my belt. Yes i do have a first aid pack on my helmet. But thats to hide the fact that i dont have a leather chin strap on the helmet atm. As i have a an SOF liner i have to rivet the strap in place, which i haven't got around to doing yet. Once the helmets sorted the aid pack will go on my webbing). Headshot, on request, then later pointed out a few more glaring errors, additions or omissions. Subsequently biguk said "I thank you for your critique of our kit, i just think you went about it in the wrong manner, and I was forced to defend Dog Company." Despite Dog Company's protestations that they are just airsofters they also display at reenactment events and indeed their website says they are reenactors and the reason they do WW2 is "to make sure that the efforts of our grandparents during those dark days of the war are remembered"
So, some confusion exactly what they represent - just airsofters or reenactors? - but anyway, on taking umbridge they decided collectively that they wouldn't ever attend CiA events and most of the members that posted on this forum removed themselves and began to make inaccurate public statements about PBI games. Just how PBI got dragged into this I have no idea.

As I have said previously, some players are not particularly fussed about accuracy or history. That is fine, its a broad church and there is something for everyone in this WW2 thing. I don't have any axe to grind, I do my own thing, others do theirs. I played against Dog Company at Gulch, no probs. Very weird when biguk expressed surprise that I came over and chatted to Dog Company in the evening - why on earth wouldn't I? Sadly, a silly argument between two forum users has somehow become a CiA vs Dog Company thing. And that's not just the four CiA organisers, but all Comrades in Arms forum users too! And that's just plain daft.

Incidentally, Dog Company asked that I remove this thread and I refused, explaining that having made public statements against PBI that they have a duty to explain themselves. While Spiers made a statement on their behalf it didn't address the issues raised by Gadge at all.

Aye essentially Alex you and your team publicly told guys who wanted to come to our events that we were picky and elitist and only wanted them there to make up the numbers...

Its just a little rude chap and i think an apology from Dog Co is in order.

If I went on this forum and had posted 'dont go to bloody gulch, dog co are all .... etc etc' you'd have been livid.

As i said, a small scene and trying to split it and create fractures is madness.

Similarly taking players to one side to tell them you are 'boycotting' cia events (and it would appear for some reason PBI ones too) is poor form. If you dont like the organisers, if you have a problem with them then dont go to the game... telling others (or trying to persuade others of the validity of your boycott so that they too will stay away) is bang out of order.

I brought this up as I honestly feel that Dog Co were doing a disservice to WWII airsoft, a small scene that many people (myself included) have worked bloody hard to get going.

So essentially the question is... do you still stick by those somewhat misleading comments you made about PBI & CiA or would you like to retract them?

If you do feel we're picky, elitist and exclusive then i have to ask why you guys continue to post here if you dont like us?

As i am writing this, I hope Gadge is reading his PM. Hint, Hint.
I as a member of Dog Co. would like to publicly appologise to PBI and its organisers for comment made on an open forum. It was thoughtless and in the end damaging to both parties. i can only speak for myself, when I wish PBI the best of luck in all their ventures. I do not attend PBI games for a few reasons, work and the ability to get to them. I do feel that a rift of any size and type damages all and I do not want to fall into the usual forum trap of bitching, sniping and backstabbing. The sad fact is this, we say we all know each other, but really we don't and In a group of any size there will be people who want to take a different direction. Its human nature, I'm afraid.
This is not an attempt to explain or worm out of the fact, comments were made. I hope that we can attempt to put this behind us and move forward.
Again I wish Gadge and the PBI crew the very best of british( with a smattering of German) luck with all future projects

P.

I originally phoned Doc Mac about my carbine when I was putting something together, and said, by the way PBI are putting a game on involving the airborne, and it would be great if you chaps came along, this conversation actually pre-dated the opening of the booking, so it wasn't something to make up the numbers. Doug subsequently let me know that because of a prior arrangement of an event you were going to on the 13th, people probably wouldn't have the funds to do both things so close together. Fair enough.

{EDIT} meant to say 'wouldn't' on the last line.

Thanks Pat.

Much appreciated, its a shame that you, the one who personally has nothing to apologise for, was the one man enough to do so.

Thanks mate and know you (as is any member of Dog Co.) are always welcome at our events.

Right now its been acknowledged it was utter tosh that was spouted by individuals about us we can move on

Once again Pat, cheers for being the guy in your group to resolve this - always has a lot of time for you and even more so now

As webby said it was never about making up the numbers... the game was concepted specifically for you guys who wanted a US airborne game. Bulge had been done (twice), D-day done to death and we had no bridge for a market garden game.... we did however have a site perfect or bocage around st lo so thought we'd risk alienating our own team members (who mainly play brits) by having a US only game to show you guys what a PBI game was like... we did it for you guys, unfortunately you turned it down. We chose 82nd airborne as they had hardly been featured in games so far, the orgnaisers had kit badged up as such and it fitted the approach to st lo game idea... not because we dont like the 101st.

The whole point of the game was to prevent a 'them and us' attitude between US and UK dressed airsofters... we epically failed there then...

Excellent, a conclusion has been reached and I'm locking this thread so we can all move on, entertaining though it may have been.
(Heh, forum activity always increases when there is a bit of a barny! Bit like the school playground. Fight! Fight! Fight! )