The merits and demerits of full face masks - a debate

Yes, it is the fear of getting shot that makes the WW2 thing work. Being shot at? Keep your head down. At an open day you can take half a mag to your face safe in the knowledge that your paintball mask will save your pretty face and you have the choice of returning fire or racing back to regen so you can have another go at being 'killed' safely.

I nearly succumbed to the medical reason argument and then I realised that a) if I had a medical reason not to be hurt then airsoft probably isn't a great hobby to choose and b) all my broken skin injuries are to the lower legs (ripped to shreds sometimes) and lower arms/hands. Gaping wounds to the head from running into trees, gaping wounds to the upper legs from metal projections in urban sites, broken or twisted ankles, slipping and landing on your mess tin strapped to your back, astma attack, heat exhaustion, dehydration etc are all very real and major injury risks and I've seen them happen - a red welt to the cheek isn't really, in the scheme of things, a biggy.

As said above you never know when a shot will come at you and from what distance, if you know where every shot is to be expected from then the game isn't much fun in my opinion.

If you are having to talk to people then your mouth is open not much way around that

So as much as I hate masks I would never ban them at one of my games, as said above people have multiple reasons why they may need to wear one but I do ask for people to consider the look of them as much as possible.

Think the half face/ lower face mask is a good workable option if you have to use one and if it looks like a real face that is the best I can hope for.
Gum shields can also be good but do reduce the ability to talk clear so they end up in and out the mouth.
The biggest problem is going to be for anyone giving orders/ commands etc as they need to be heard and facial expressions also come into this big. Hand signals are a way round this but not perfect by any stretch of the imagination.

Yes I know CW talked about ages and not to bring that into this thread but it is a fact that some sites state below X age must wear them and some of us do allow under 18's in events.
As I have said if some enterprising person thinks they can make a product that will fix this problem in a sensible manner they will be praised by me if they can sell them on this forum.

Well an interesting debate on a subject that I had not really given a lot of thought too.

My own view is that I dont like face masks of any kind really and as a personal choice choose not to wear one and accept the attended risks of not doing so, but I think "personal choice" is the key phrase. It is the personal choice of some players to wear them and some "minor fringe of eccentricity" game organisers not to allow them.

CW says that he nearly sucumbed to the medical argument, and so he should as that can be taken further. Suspension of disbelief can be damaged in many other ways, front line soldiers were invariably thin as food was scarce and they recieved plenty of exercise. Fitness levels of real WW2 soldiers would be much higher, they would think nothing of a 30yard dash to cover. Now unfortunately my wasteline is somewhat portly and I cant run 10 yards without panting, not to mention that really Im representing a young lad in his twenties when in reallity I am slightly older So no matter how much effort I put into my kit/attitude etc Im never going to quite pull off the perfect look of a German soldier. Should I therefor be resticted from attending untill I get as fit as a real soldier?

I would hate for anyone with a medical condition to be unable to attend a WW2 airsoft event when there is a reasonable way around it, any more than I should be banned just because I am not fit enough to run 30 yards. I like the inclusitivity of this hobby and forum and hope that attitude continues.

As far as the attitude of people wearing face masks are concearned I have yet to see anyone wearing one behaving in an unreallistic gung ho fashion, there normally cowering in a ditch next to me, so I dont think we need to worry too much about open day airsofting creeping in just yet.

I think there has also been a strong argument put forward that gumsheilds may not be the all singing and dancing idea proposed.

As for not being able to see someones face/expressions, is this really not just an unrealised extension of westerners dislike of the burkha?

So in conclusion, I wont wear one, I wont support a global ban on anyone who chooses to, I would hope to persuade anyone who does to minimise its impact so as not to reduce the enjoyment of others yet I still support Craig desire to not allow them at what may hopefully be desribed without causing offence at a "fringe game" trying to push the boundaries a little further

...As far as the attitude of people wearing face masks are concerned I have yet to see anyone wearing one behaving in an unrealistic gung ho fashion, there normally cowering in a ditch next to me, so I dont think we need to worry too much about open day airsofting creeping in just yet....

I do try to avoid any mention of what one has/has not experienced, because the next step is for me to say 'I have', and then you to say 'when?', and then I have to list it and break the first law.

So to avoid any such thus-ness, you have not encountered it, I have encountered it. We are back to the abstract position.

The medical reason does have a validity to it, and your point it quite right I think. But surely this is a separate issue that is addressed on an individual basis, it is not in all honesty a reason that the majority of people wear the things.

they are an excepted part of airsoft culture, common and frequently expected. From what I have read so far I have yet to see a good reason not rid our hobby of this expectation.
So in conclusion did anyone come up anything these add to the hobby?

"it is not in all honesty a reason that the majority of people wear the things"

No agreed, the fewer the better as far as Im concerned.

"So in conclusion did anyone come up anything these add to the hobby?"

Er.. No!

But still believe in personal choice.

The medical reason does have a validity to it, and your point it quite right I think. But surely this is a separate issue that is addressed on an individual basis, it is not in all honesty a reason that the majority of people wear the things.

Agreed. When I started doing WWII airsoft, I still thought like an airsofter - i.e. hi-caps, maximum amount of ammo, full face mask and gloves for protection, comfy non-WWII boots (please note, I am not having a dig at anyone; merely illustrating a point). Bit by bit, my attitudes changed. Limited ammo? Great idea - in fact, one of the cornerstones of taking the open day attitude out of WWII airsoft. Lo-caps (yes I know some weapons don't have them) - great idea. What could be more exciting than having to change mags in a fire fight, rather than winding up your hi-cap? How many pics of WWII soldiers showed them wearing gloves, I asked myself. Very few (yes, I know the exceptions), so I ditched the gloves. I haven't missed them, because at a WWII event, you will not get somebody emptying a box mag at all and sundry from 10 yards away.

But we do limit personal choice. It is in fact the very nature of what we do.

Even ignoring the 'absurdum' points, we limit choice for many reasons. We disallow high-caps and impart ammo limits for functional reasons, and we require specific uniforms, weapons, headgear for 'looking right' reasons.

When we get into the game we limit personal choice in actions, we require people to play within a command structure and to follow orders, to play in a certain style.

All these limits of personal choice would be as anathema to the open day airsoft world, but are considered common practice within ours.

The only reason that the face mask is considered as a indisputable case of personal choice, is because it is part of this Airsoft (first definition) world. Not only are we not part of that world, be we should continue to strive not to be so, it offers us nothing.

This hobby is a risk calculation, and physical activity is. There is the chance of ankles going and of ears bleeding. I myself have yelled out in pain when pummelled by certain guns. The chance of getting a stinger on the cheek is just one more risk we should become accustomed to accepting.

well to add to the hobby they could be fitted on mass to dummy's of fallen soldiers in order to add dressing to the battle area, now there's a new idea why don't we use our spare kit on dummy's as set dressing?sorry off topic.

Personally I would ban them for all reasons stated above.

Then it is back to personal choice on a take it or leave it basis. In other words if you really want to attend then you can do so without your face mask, or if you don't want to take the risk then simply give the event a miss.

But are there enough players attending games that organisers can to be so prescriptive?

I mean take me for instance - I have been on this forum for over 2 years and have yet to attend a game

well to add to the hobby they could be fitted on mass to dummy's of fallen soldiers in order to add dressing to the battle area, now there's a new idea why don't we use our spare kit on dummy's as set dressing?sorry off topic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3x3CC3ytJE been there done that good use for my mask and a cheap uniform

But are there enough players attending games that organisers can to be so prescriptive?

I mean take me for instance - I have been on this forum for over 2 years and have yet to attend a game

Yes an other reason why I would not place a blanket ban it is hard enough to get people to attend as it is.
It is one thing to encourage people not to do a thing but something else to ban it, I took great exception to a recent government that always took that attitude

PS I also hate seeing dark eye shields and goggles unless they fit with the kit for a reason but I never make comment about it (maybe I should) I would not ban them.

with film sim events where higher ammo limits and a more gung ho style is the order of the day then the kit is more lax,for games like eagles where its an all out event and expected kit and immersion is to be at its highest then masks would ruin the effect that so many go to a lot of trouble to achieve.there is no need to have a blanket ban or allow them at every event,we are broad school with events to all tastes ,to say this or that is or is not ww2 airsoft will thin the attendance.indeed we need to encourage new players and like as not they will largely come from regular airsoft so entry level events with lower kit and immersion are a must for our greater goals,to say i wont go to a game like that is more or less a nail in the coffin of ww2 airsoft because from my experience with games like sea-lion where i was new to it ,i saw what more experienced players kit was like and how they played gave the inspiration and tips i needed to go onto more immersive style games.we may prefer one style of game but must also be at less detailed games to be an inspiration to new players,if we dont do that then the newer players will take a different route and we will not be steering them at all and have no one to blame but ourselves.

A valid point Gav. I have not thrown myself into the hobby and paid out on period tentage etc because I was told I must, but because I saw what the veterans were doing, liked it, inspired by it and copied much. In my opinion a far better way to go than being to prescriptive, at least not at all events.

I like to point out to anyone I don't wear dark glasses purely for fashion I wear them because the light affects my badly that's the reason I wear them then as the day gets dark then I wear clear ones

Some really good points on both sides

As pointed out it's down to personal choice

As been say wounds heal ect but no one has mention teeth don't grow back. It only takes one bb to knock one out.
Saying that wearing a half masks like mine doesn't guaranty 100% protection as a ricocheted under the mask, same with tactical glasses

To simpley give a game a miss because I've decided to protect my face, I would be guited and outraged if I really wanted to do that event.

I've pretty much taken a postions it's my face I'll do what the hell I want to it

JD

As I mentioned before, it has to be down to the individual event organisers. In the same way that some event rules specify authentic kit and period weapons, the rules are there to create a better experience, so as a player I wouldn`t want to detract from everyone else`s experience by turning up in gash kit or toting an M4.
If there is a 'hardcore' event and the rules state 'no face masks' then it`s just another rule, if you can`t abide by it then you can`t attend, it`s that simple.
As for teeth, I`ve lost one in a fight, one snapped whilst biting into a chip, and two as a result of falling off my pushbike when I was a kid, but never had one damaged in an airsoft event. I`ve also gone arse over tit and twisted my ankle whilst mowing the lawn at home, but never had similar happen at a game.
As combat sports go, airsoft is relatively safe considering whats involved, very few people get carried off at the end of the day on a stretcher or leave with their face a bloody pulp.
The losing teeth thing is one of those 'I know someone who got a tooth shot out during a game' things which does the gossip rounds and a few people get a bit nervous and get it into their heads that it will happen to them every time they venture to an event. Yes some people have unfortunate experiences but it`s in the minority.

ambush adventures (my local)has had over 100 teeth knocked out ,all confirmed not gossip or hear say.its no myth

ambush adventures (my local)has had over 100 teeth knocked out ,all confirmed not gossip or hear say.its no myth

Names and addresses please or it didn`t happen
Seriously, if that was my local site with that kind of record then I`d be asking why so many. Hot guns, dim players, poor marshalling ?. I must remember never to go there.

I despise full face and half face masks with the burning heat of hate and have done since day 1 of this hobby. It totally ruins all immersion for me. For all those who say they won't go to a game that disallows them (I don't like the word "ban"), that's fine by me - I don't want to go to a game and have to see you wearing them. It's a win-win situation.

Getting shot is SUPPOSED to hurt. You're SUPPOSED to crap yourself whenever you come under fire - that's what makes airsoft combat so much more realistic than blankfire. If you don't want to take the risk of an injury then do something else. That's not having dig at anyone's manliness, it's just being realistic.

ambush adventures (my local)has had over 100 teeth knocked out ,all confirmed not gossip or hear say.its no myth

Names and addresses please or it didn`t happen
Seriously, if that was my local site with that kind of record then I`d be asking why so many. Hot guns, dim players, poor marshalling ?. I must remember never to go there.

its a really small site and gets a lot of people at very close range,the whole site is only two shots wide by three long and allows 500 fps snipers with engagement rules obviously.regularly over 80 players,its a horizontal hail storm,the complete opposite of what we do.

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ARGH! dont like! i find that very creepy and sinister.

back on topic, i dont think banning them is a good idea. a chaps face is a chaps face, if he wants to protect it then so be it. hes cleary not man enough! haha

but really how many face masks are encountered on an event? 2-3? or a dozen or so? i know at open days at my site, apart from hirers theres only a few worn no more than 6 out of 50ish (cept of course for ages limits but they not part of this discussion so they dont matter((and a couple of ladies))). if the amount of masks got stupid, say every second player wearing one. then yes i can see how an organizer might decide to lay down a ban. but for just a couple, i dont see how that can ruin the immersion. theres already guidelines down for clothing and what guns can be used, we should be able to use our imaginations to ignore that face mask (ww2'ers are probably the more imaginative players anyway)

i dont think putting one down for "safety" equipment is very good at all. that will also lead to no shaded glasses, no yellow lenses, no mesh googles etc. which leads of a whole bunch of elitist rule sets and general cockery (of course Cw im not sayin you are, but just that something that can happen)

however, if they are a problem for a event. i could accept a "please make face masks look blah blah" request, same as the freaky french false facemask, and maybe have the organizer, supply them?

just my rambling thoughts.

Even one mask is one too many. It kills the immersion stone dead, Just as one player wearing DPM or one player wearing jeans.