VCR Bill

I would never advocate the use of guns for personal defence. That's where I think our government have got it right.

Just because you have a gun, doesn't mean you're safe.

Basically it's not that you can't or shouldn't own real guns... It's just that everyone equates gun ownership to the US model.

Basically, most Americans shouldn't be allowed guns until they're prepared to act sensibly with them and amend their constitution accordingly (or just enforce a more more palatable interpretation of what it says). Hunting's okay but you don't need a feckin M16 and a .50 cal Desert Eagle to do it.

Similarly, it's not 1872 and there isn't a Frontier anymore.

Militias? Right to bear arms? Bl**dy hell no wonder tourism is down - guns don't make you (feel) safe.

Think I'm being deiberately imflammatory? Wanna compare gun crime in the US with gun crime in Canada - a poorer country with the same (if not higher) levels of gun ownership?

It doesnt matter WHAT the gun is - a colt .25 or a bloody Barret .50 - its all about the person who owns it. Either someone is safe around firearms, or they aren't.

To state that "most Americans shouldn't be allowed guns until they're prepared to act sensibly with them" is an annoying generalisation. Do you have any statistics to use to support your arguement?

I have friends in several States, and relatives in DC and VA. The only place I have felt *unsafe* in the US was in DC. And guess where the most prescriptive firearms laws in the US are? yup, Washington DC. Conversely, the safest i've felt has been in Texas, a state with an astronomically high level of gun ownership.

Dont generalise, or stereotype.

Gotta love forums eh. Starts as the VCR Act, ends up veering off course onto 2nd Amendment Rights lol

Suppose we ought to get back on topic a bit...

No offence taken or intended, what Kermit says is perfectly right.

Anyway, back on topic. Blah, VCR Act, Grr, Bloody Government, Boo, HMRC, wah, I can't buy guns no more, etc.

This Act can be looked at in a number of different ways. Yes, it is going to be a right git that you cant just walk into a shop and buy what you wanted without having to *prove* you're a skirmisher. BUT, it does mean that hopefully the chavvy scum wont be able to get hold of any new guns, PLUS, HMG now have a clue what Airsoft actually is - and that there IS a legitimate use for it.

Shit, was i being an optimist for a change?

Shit, was I being an optimist for a change?

nah, i see what you mean, if it stops prats on car boots selling them to kids and other random idiots, then that part of it can only be a good thing, and face it, we all here have a valid reason for owning/purchasing airsoft guns. So hopefully, the only effect the law should have is a temporary awkwardness in obtaining them until the paperwork side of things is sorted out.

The only major drawback i can see is that it might put a stop, or at least make it very difficult to get new blood into the airsoft scene. how do you start playing if you can't get a gun?

I must admit, if the bill was in effect a year ago, i'd have never got into the airsoft scene at all, let alone ww2 airsft, as i have absolutely no interest in running around in modern kit with a hired modern gun on a few open days in order that i can then buy a ww2 gun.

how do you start playing if you can't get a gun?

I would hope that people who run sites have got enough forethought and business acumen to build a little stockpile of hire guns for newbies to get into the hobby.

There's money to be made there!

I must admit, if the bill was in effect a year ago, I'd have never got into the airsoft scene at all, let alone ww2 airsft

Same here, I only got into airsoft because I had a small collection as wallhangers and then discovered two years later there were sites where you could use them from talking to a work colleague who used to play at Wiltshire Warzone.

promoting airsoft is exactly about that I have made sure that i have enough guns to lend to anyone i invite. we need to take responsibility for the promotion of airsoft..... I think that if common sensee is allowed to prevail we might actually see our hobby increase if people realise they have to skirmish in order to get guns it only takes one skirmish to get hooked....

nah, I see what you mean, if it stops prats on car boots selling them to kids and other random idiots, then that part of it can only be a good thing, and face it, we all here have a valid reason for owning/purchasing airsoft guns.

Trouble is I bet you it wont stop that kind of sale. Laws can be made and all us responsible buyers and sellers can abide to it but law enforcment is terribly lax at the moment. Take the mobile phone use in cars for example, or dodgy font licence plates or any number of other things the police don't seem to chase up on.
I couldn't tell you why this is, but I suspect its something to do with the current public attitude of "laws are made to be broken if you can get away with it".

The upshot is I bet you the little toerags will still be buying plastic springers from somewhere and they will still be shoving them in the faces of poor old dears waiting for the bus. A simple knee jerk reaction to restricting AIF sales will not solve the deep social issues we are facing and no government will attempt to as it would take too long and wouldn't see results in the political timeframe.

<gets down off soapbox and goes to the pub>

I don't know how many other people on the forums ready the Manchester Evening News, but last week I almost fell off my chair at work when I was looking at the front page as my Boss was reading it.

Apparently in Manchester somewhere, out near Ashton, a couple of youths pulled out an AK47 sat at a bustop (was all caught on CCTV) and aimed it at a crane driver on a nearby construction site... there was some sort of mixup with the five-oh and they got away,... but the fact of the matter is,.. was it a cheap springer, AEG or real gun? This is what the Government is prolly trying to deal with at the mo, unfortunately it happens all the time

Full Story V V

"20/ 9/2007

Next day: Mr Ridley sends a CCTV image of the youths with the rifle to the local police station"

Indeed, 'proof' is yet be established.

You don't need to be on the database to have a legal defence.

The UKARA database is only a mechanism for the retailer's benefit - it provides them with a reasonably robust proof that they have established a purchaser's eligibility.

That said, it's going to be of benefit to the airsofter as he won't be able to buy from a UK retailer unless he jumps through their hoops.

So, if plod wants to know who sold what to whom in private sales or customs query an import then it's going to be down to you to prove that you are entitled to a defence. How are you going to do that? Same as you prove you are over 18 or are married or qualified to drive - documentary evidence. Collect receipts/stamps from airsoft sites, photocopies of evidence you have gotten from your purchaser etc. Anything you can really, as you stand to lose your purchase at the least or pay hefty legal fees for your defence or get a fine/prison sentence at the worst!

A plain-clothes GMP officer later prepares to attend when it is discovered the boys have got on a Hattersley-bound train.

Bloody hell that train heads my way. Actually knowing the stops between here and there I could believe that. Armed robbery of a post office on the neighbouring village has gone up of the last 2 years.

Interesting Police response tho : Its not our problem. Rings a bell regarding the response to the drowning kid last week.

See Digga's got it right a few posts up. Laws already exist to stop people pulling RIFs in public but they just aren't enforced forcibly or regularly enough for it to sink into the national CHAV conscience (yes, they are Borg-like collective).

This law will do nothing but make it a pain in the arse for legit buyers. Everyone knows that, but that's the way the cookie crumbles here I'm afraid.

Anyway, this is old ground really.

Sorry Kermit, your optimism hasn't rubbed off on me!

Believe me, my optimism was only temporary. I'm back to my cynical old self now. Expect examples to be made after the 1st, just so that Nu Labour can shout that they are doing something about "the menace of replica guns". That info comes from a reliable source as well.

Spacemonkey is right on the UKARA front - it is in their interest that they corner the market. However, approaches have been made to HMR&C to see what "proof" they would require that an importer is an "Airsoft Skirmisher" to let the guns through.

Which info comes from a reliable source? The example being made bit?

Sounds like what it is : A political high horse. Batten down the hatches lads. Storms a brewin'

Yup, about examples being made...

FFS.

Saw an interesting report a couple of weeks ago, apparently up to two years ago in the case of section 5 violations the courts were only giving out the manditory 5 years+ jail sentences in 20% of the cases, the government kicked up a fuss and in the last two years it's gone up to 40%, when you consider that according to the law all section 5 violations should recieve a 5 year, or more, sentence some of the blame for the increasingly draconian laws has got to be the judges handing out lenient sentences, maybe if both the police and the courts had enforced previous laws the VCRA won't have been needed.