what attracts you to portray certain units?

The State may have been 'Nazi Germany' but the majority of the troops doing the fighting were German. Most were drafted, conscripts, their political views were not considered, some may have been active nazi supporters, some were certainly not.
The SS and Waffen SS were a small part of the total troops available and around half of the Waffen SS Divisions were not German.
Sweeping generalisations do no one any good.
It cant be recommended to insist on calling German players nazis. It's not a nice thing to do and is historically dubious.

OK first things first: nobody in this thread, not even me, has called anybody a Nazi or suggested that anybody playing WW2 airsoft as Axis (is that acceptable?) therefore has any unsavoury sympathies or beliefs.

With apologies to all Medieval Spanish re-enactors - I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition.

So before anybody else wants to over react, contradict or embarrass themselves I wholeheartedly apologise for the fact that I obviously did not express myself clearly enough and for all the upset I have caused people through their misinterpretation of my meaning.

It's not an attempt to rewrite history, to play down the horrors inflicted on the world by the 3rd Rich and the nazi regime.
It is an attempt, a request, to remove the term 'nazi' from peoples lips when we are talking about the game.
It's not needed, we all know the score.

One thing I remember was an interview on here actually, that Martin conducted with a relative in which he mentions his reaction to being approached by an 'SS recruiter' in 1945? It is a while back but, brief a mention as it got, I showed both lack of selectiveness of the SS recruiters during this period, and the sense of their being a clear distinction between them and the Heer

Ludwig's experience was at the arse-end of the war and I imagine all the selection processes were a lot more lax by then. Remember that the SS officer had spotted them as volunteers rather than draftees and after however many months of manual labour in the RAD they would all have been fit as fiddles. From the recruiter's perpective, Ludwig and his buddies probably fit the SS Mann profile very nicely.
I find it fascianting that those few minutes were such a pivotal point in his life. Had he said "yes", his future may have been very different.

I think I've portrayed SS once. I have no objections to playing any role in a game but SS just doesn't interest me very much.

To be fair I have only seen the "nazi" jibe used regularly by one user on a different forum and it's clearly just done for effect. Never seen it used by any of our chaps

i'm certain universal didnt use it as a jibe

I sure of that too.

Thank you.

I spent a while today hunting for a serious historical study on the Waffen-SS

'The SS: Hitlers Instrument of Terror' by Gordon Williamson is a decent one volume survey, covers all branches of the SS and includes a detailed examination of the relationships and overlaps between the Waffen-SS, Totenkopf-verband, SD and Einsatzgruppen.

wrt usage of the term 'Nazi' for German WW2 soldiers, this is really very common indeed out in the big wide world, although to echo the comments above, something to avoid like the plague in the context of WW2 airsoft.

recent BBC article:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16141392

Cheers
Martin

I spent a while today hunting for a serious historical study on the Waffen-SS

'The SS: Hitlers Instrument of Terror' by Gordon Williamson is a decent one volume survey, covers all branches of the SS and includes a detailed examination of the relationships and overlaps between the Waffen-SS, Totenkopf-verband, SD and Einsatzgruppen.

Actually Martin, these are the works I am trying to avoid. A bit Osprey-y. I am hunting the most ridiculously dry academic work of no excitement and extortionate cost. The things which are generally of no use to us Re-enactors, Wargammers etc.
Quite seriously, I don't think it exists.

There was a review done for Shaef, on the SS.
Is that the kind of thing?
MLRS does a reprint.
http://www.mlrsbooks.co.uk/bookstore/in ... ml?&qry=ss
They also do a short look at the Waffen SS.
http://www.mlrsbooks.co.uk/bookstore/in ... ml?&qry=ss
or
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=-KEt ... rt&f=false

the Shaef would be a useful secondary source if I was going to write it myself, but I do not want to write it myself as I lack the years it would take, academic support and, the Language skills required.

The second looks to contain some interesting areas, and is at least referenced. Still lacking quite a bit of the ivory towerness required, but I'll order a copy and see how it holds up.

cheers

I am hunting the most ridiculously dry academic work of no excitement and extortionate cost./quote]

What sort of coverage are you after? Unit histories, the minutiae of personnel assignments (Mr Williamson mentioned earlier spends good deal of time tracking down Theodore Eickes various proteges), the internal functioning of the SS overall?

There is certainly no shortage of hideously expensive books on the SS, however if you want something really dry, I'm not sure David Glantz has written anything specific about the Waffen SS

Cheers
Martin

"Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" Helmuth von Moltke
Toys: AGM MP40, Cyma M1A1, TM M14/G43/SVT40, TM VSR/K98, SnS No. 4, ASG Sten, Ppsh.
Arnhem3,Gumrak,Campoleone

 

non of the above.

I want something that is not a Military history, something written by an historian, not a military historian - as they are almost universally amateurs. Something that analyses who they were, not where the were, what they did or what they wore.

non of the above.

I want something that is not a Military history, something written by an historian, not a military historian - as they are almost universally amateurs, relying more on your trust of their writing then any serious peer review. Something that analyses who they were, not where the were, what they did or what they wore.

There was a thing on TV last night on the Waffen SS. Lots of former soldiers recounting their experiences. The thing that came across well was the nature of SS training. The esprit de corps was fostered not by encouraging or even ragging the weaker recruits, but by punishing an entire company for the failings of individuals, which predictably resulted in some horrific bullying and general despisal of anyone weak. Their training seemed to be mostly "death or glory" tactics and political indoctrination that dehumanised all non-aryans. Once you've brutalised a bunch of teenagers in this way it's maybe not too surprising that they are both fearless in battle and monsters afterwards.

Also funny hearing that Sepp Dietrich was a bit of a numpty.

I chose to do a Jamaican infantry volunteer because it means I can dress up in Brit kit and represent my heritage at the same time, plus its an impression I've ever seen before.

My view on people playing/re-enacting axis, weather its SS, Heer or Italian Blackshirt is some one has to do it, and while in reality members of the SS had to be party members/supporters, its just essentially dressing up and playing soldiers.

and while in reality members of the SS had to be party members/supporters

Not sure if they had to be, probably common for them to be members but I seem to remember reading somewhere that the icon of the Waffen SS Joachim Peiper was once berated by Hitler for not being a Party member. However as you say airsoft reenacting is dressing up not politics.

while in reality members of the SS had to be party members/supporters

Many Waffen SS soldiers were not even German, let alone Nazis. There are plenty of stories about young men of occupied countries being press-ganged into joining. The Waffen SS of 1944 was vastly different to that of 1940, with the ranks being swelled by practically anybody they could get.

Surely if you were going to join the SS, regardless of what country you were from you would have some Nazi sympathies even if you weren't a supporter, I am talking pre 44 of course I am fully aware of the way the SS was post 44.

Surely if you were going to join the SS, regardless of what country you were from you would have some Nazi sympathies even if you weren't a supporter, I am talking pre 44 of course I am fully aware of the way the SS was post 44.

Not really. A lot of Dutch and French signed up because of their anti communist beliefs, rather than their nazi sympathies. A bit misguided, yes but, you can see their point. It's ironic that some of the last defenders of Berlin were French Waffen Ss volunteers!

I've also read stories of young men from the occupied countries who got into trouble being offered the choice of jail (and possibly torture) or joining the W-SS.