Organisers

Army Group South (AGS).

Wladek (I am my own group )

The Doughboys.
I was not involved this year as I had stepped down so that my 'toxic' name wouldn't effect the 'brand' (I feel ill just writing that), as the game was a very loose one we were running - but that didn't look to help. So if we run something next year I would probably be at the head again.

'The 900 Days' - 4 man organising team running a continuous campaign of events based on the eastern front.

An interesting point from this is the various belligerents which the different organiser groups represent.

The 900 days games are exclusively Russian vs German.

Doughboys are obviously US infantry VS German.

34th are also always going to have a US infantry element in all their games.

At AGS, our organising team nearly all have German as their primary impressions although a couple of us like Andy swing both ways. . We have done games with US, Brit and Russian as the allied belligerents. For us it tends to be about matching site, scenario, and historical accuracy.

My point is, (I think I have one. ) in the past there have been problems where we end up with say two or three Russian games in a year which has been a problem. We need to ensure that doesn't happen moving forward which just boils down to good communication between the organising groups!

Pathfinders.
Primarily U.S Airborne.Although most of us have Ranger, Brit Airborne, Brit Commando with a smattering of German Infantry.
The Games organised so far on site have admittedly been biased towards Normandy with one or two non specific generic events in the mix.

Good point Neil, and of course some years it worked the other way where the majority of games came from the same theatre and therefore people would be wary of going and spending money on kit and then not getting the go forward to use it.

This is where game principles like those of Wladek's comes to the fore, Yes the kit list is a lot more defined but at the end of it if there is always a confirmed game each year then a lot of people will make the step to get the kit, I know I have for the game coming up in September.

Just speaking on behalf of the 900 days organisers it was one of the principle points to supply at least one eastern front game a year. and seen as we have based it as an ongoing campaign around the single major battle we have background and story line for at least another two going forward not inclusive of the one we have in development for this year.

Now i don't want this to be seen as we are trying to monopolize the eastern front side of the genre but just letting all other organisers who do read through this exactly where we are so we can like Neil has said move forward together.

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Now i don't want this to be seen as we are trying to monopolize the eastern front side of the genre but just letting all other organisers who do read through this exactly where we are so we can like Neil has said move forward together.

No IMHO monopolize the eastern front you do a good job of it and it will in time get a group of likeminded players together who will attend as a group

Tin - Fireball Sqn and member of 34th but also do Gerbirgsjager and SS (ish)

Thinking out loud... perhaps if we (game organisers) stuck to certain settings and periods that were clearly defined, players would feel more happy about spending their hard earned on a specific impression. Perhaps not permanently but for example the 34th have run a series of games based in Italy. We could announce that we were to run 4 games and their proposed dates well in advance.

Going further, we could come up with a key or colour code that would also define what we expect from players.
i.e. Weapons - RED/AMBER/GREEN Red = weapons specific to time/theatre. Amber = Only WW2 weapons. Green = any weapon but if not WW2 then should be scrimmed.
Could do the same for impressions / ammo limits......

So a game could be tagged
Weapons Red
Impression Amber
Ammo limits red

Letting folks know at a glance what is and isn't expected.

As I say, just thinking out loud really.

I'm sorry but in the last pictures I saw these games in Italy had a Polish Paratrooper, a 101st Airborne and a US Marine. I thought the point of thsi group was to talk about somethign specific, not just every ww2 game run?

is the intent to define this as being immersive now? Or just, well, what?

Yes, but as I said. "just thinking out loud" of ways of conveying what we as organisers would like to see and being able to give a clear indication of this to the punters, whether an immersive game or otherwise.
Just because the 34th games have thus far been in a certain style does not mean that we can not run or host games of a different style.

OK, Well as mentioned in another thread a scenario is important - an Italian game for instance has to be set in Italy, and that does mean limiting sides and uniforms to be immersive. At the very least it should have only units that are native to the theater allowed.

And 4 games is a site proposition, not a community one. I would hope after previous threads that if fireball are wanting to run games alongside the communtiy this would be addressed.

see this is why i have not posted on here , i have no will to try and make some one where a correct badged uniform for a one off game, as thats to me is not highly important to a good day, now i know how important this is to certain folks on here and reason for part of this group. Which is will offer my services as a player but not a organiser, best left to the "masters " of this sort of thing.

OK, Well as mentioned in another thread a scenario is important - an Italian game for instance has to be set in Italy, and that does mean limiting sides and uniforms to be immersive. At the very least it should have only units that are native to the theater allowed.

And 4 games is a site proposition, not a community one. I would hope after previous threads that if fireball are wanting to run games alongside the communtiy this would be addressed.

but he never said that would not be case , as like he said he was thinking out loud

And 4 games is a site proposition, not a community one. I would hope after previous threads that if fireball are wanting to run games alongside the communtiy this would be addressed.

I agree with your first point, that for a truly immersive game this is exactly what is needed. If we were to run an immersive game then this would be the case.

Can you clarify your second comment?

with the current state of games running a single group runnig 4 games per year is a detriment to other games run. That these games are popular one does not doubt, but nor is it relevant. If fireball want to run games longside the community, so that other games have the space to run then they would run 1 or maybe 2. If they are running games as a site, to create a brand and a customer base, then they will run as many as possible. The Reason I don't run 3 games a year is exactly because it would not be fair to other ogranisers.

And I also feel I should make another point clear (again) - I am not saying that Fireball should not run games, or that what games fireball have run are evil. The nonsense that reds are too snooty to support grey games (I made a phrase) is pervasive - my last game was a Gunman one and it looks likely my next will be a fireball one. It is all fine and good for them to be there and ALL that people have mentioned is that they want diversity - I don;t want to ONLY get to go to Gunman games, I want there to be more as well. As this group is, supposedly set up to discuss the survival of this "more" I think it needs to stay on track and speak to that specifically.

Actually what it needs to do is DEFINE immersive really.

Wladek is right in the fact some of this is not to be here to discussed and can be discussed elsewhere ,no point in offering counter arguments here

and i agree the group need to decide what level of immersion does it want from this /these games

Yes I agree with Craig and Chris we need to out some definition down as to what we are all here to discuss.
But the problem that throws up is that everyone's level of immersion is different so there rather than a definition more a guideline of what an immersive event is and I think that if we have everyone's input then that interpretation is going to be massive and then I feel we will be back at this grey/red squirrel rubbish

courtesy of Chomley
So, moving on, what is it that I want from WW2 airsoft now?
I want something as far removed from an open day as possible. Been there, done that, boring after the first 20 games.
I want a sense of history I love historical accuracy and if a game can teach me something or push me to learn more, then all the better.
I want a sense of place A site full of forts, paintball splattered trees and pallet piles won’t cut it. I want the scenario to fit the site not the other way around.
I want a sense of jeopardy I want to feel that life is precious, the reality that my life is precious.
I want to explore new sites It really adds to the experience, complicates the game plan, adds an extra level of risk and removes the ‘club’ thing where those familiar to a site exploit it to their advantage. Heh, that’s what we did to the noobs on our open days!
I want a sense of ‘being there’ Background sound tracks of battle noises, stukkas dive bombing, guard dogs patrolling tunnels. Players behaving like soldiers not airsofters. A sea of similarly dressed factions in khaki, brown or grey. Players dropping down like flies when it all goes tits up. Pyro going off everywhere.
I want a lack of movie aping I want a battle to be like a real battle, not how they are portrayed on screen with buffed up and puffed up heroes winning the day. War is shit. A bit of shittiness is perfectly doable. Of course, I am unfit and middle aged, and games have to cater for the players abilities to be ‘fun’.
I don’t want good guys vs bad guys Soldiers fought for and gave their lives their families and their countries, respect that.
I don’t want games that are one sided or perceived to be one sided.
I want players to look great I'm quite content with a ten foot rule (or whatever) and I appreciate those that look perfect equally with those that have made the effort. I’m not hugely hung up about weapon accuracy as I'm not into guns.
I want players to act like soldiers not airsofters I don’t mean drilling or buffing boots, I mean acting like you are in the worst place on earth where fussing about uniform accuracy or stopping for lunch or moaning because the player you shot didn't die or that your boots and knees are getting muddy is the last thing on your mind.
I want an experience Like everyone else, my time and money are precious. Time more so in my case. Friends, colleagues and family are dying all around me and I’m acutely aware that every second counts. I have a thousand and one other things I should be doing and playing at soldiers shouldn't be at the top of the pile (although it manages to find its way there!). I want to take away from the weekend something memorable for ever, something that has added to my life not wasted it.
I want to be challenged Mentally or physically. I don’t want things easy all the time, push me, test me. Some of my most memorable games are where I endured discomfort (not to compare to discomfort of a real WW2 soldier which is unimaginable) or pushed myself to do something out of my perceived comfort zone.
I don’t want to be scripted Part of the joys of being an organiser of CiA games is that games are played out for real, one commander against another. But as a player I like to feel I am part of my commander’s plan and a cog in the wheel, pitting my wits against an enemy, not following a typed out game plan. That isn't to say games should be unplanned free-for-alls, indeed they should be planned to cater for every eventuality, just that within the plan (to make best use of the site, say) outcomes are undetermined and down to the players and commander’s decisions.
I don’t want winners and losers It shouldn't matter a jot. I want to feel I have achieved something for sure, but winning and losing is a very open day thing.