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Hirate Sakimori
(@hirate-sakimori)
Eminent Member

Many folks have some strange ideas about a Japanese team.

I have noticed not many of my friends want to play as Japanese, or even consider a pacific game, because apparently the Japanese Imperial army... was "crap".

I pointed out how in the past me and some friends have had a great game in Scotland with some Chinese students and the local wermacht re-enactment society were kind enough to lend some kit and help organise it. However apart from that one "Manchurian" game there has been no Japanese team in the UK. I have been in contact with my friends in the re-enactment scene and even that is somewhat stagnant. There is some good news which is that interest in the Japanese side and Imperial forces actions and campaigns is growing.

So I thought I would tackle some of the common problems people might have with Japanese skirmishing.

1) The Weapons.

This is probably the number one dilemma we face. Especially airsoft skirmishing wise. It is actually easier to get hold of the real rifle than it is to get the airsoft one. While real Arisaka rifles are rare, and demand high prices in the UK... at least they can be found at various auctions and online dealerships. However as far as I am aware only two companies produce Arisaka type 99 rifles... and the type 38 which was the earlier and more widely used model is discontinued by Tanaka. For the vast majority of players it is either a custom option or as Mikoyan has suggested... there is a large number of "substitutes" and possible conversions out there. I still am not going to give up :D

2) Kit and Uniform. This is actually becoming easier and easier to obtain both original and reproduction kit. Hikishop and Nakata sell lots of both. One can quite easily make your own uniform with bits and bobs from here and there too.

3) Prejudice. While we might not like to admit this sometimes... there is always going to be some minor prejudice attitudes towards axis re-enactment and airsoft. "Why do you play the badies" etc. Also a lot of my friends find it hard to get the cultural and psychological mindset of the average Japanese soldier of world war 2.

4) General lack of knowledge.... this is perhaps along with the shortage of guns... another key factor.

People simply don't know enough about Imperial Japanese army actions in World war 2.

The scale of Imperial Japanese forces and actions was huge. Also at the start of the war Japan was actually in some ways ahead of the allied powers it faced.

The Arisaka rifles were actually very good and in some ways revolutionary weapons, for their time. As was the Mitsubishi Zero... by the end of the war things changed though.

Many people assume that due to lack of firepower Japanese side is weak, however this is not the case.

In the earlier part of the war Imperial Japanese army was very very good both tactically and in terms of combat effectiveness. Sometimes small Japanese forces routed 10 times their number of opponents by sheer courage... and determination. Which takes me to another point.

5) Banzai charges. Much is made of how the "fanatical Japanese" would straight into allied guns and tried to take as many enemy in a suicidal rush... this is not so. At least not in majority of early war campaigns.

For example in early pacific campaign the 5th Division and 18th Divisions of Imperial Japan with just 30,000 men and the naval forces and aircraft of IJN forced the combined Allied, American, British ,Dutch and Australian forces on land sea and air to be practically annihilated. This was not done by suicidal charges but by methodical and calculated planning.

Many of the Japanese commanders have been overlooked in the early stages, they were mostly against the war but forced to act due to political reasons... some were outright fanatics like "Masanobu Tsuji" but most generals and air force and naval commanders were against war. Despite this they fought carefully and did not waste men and precious resources they could not afford to waste.

There were exceptions in the early stages for example at battle of Kampar and Muar in Malaya the Japanese rushed British and Australian positions only to be bloodily repulsed by superior artillery of the allies. The Japanese had to be clever and bypass the defenders by "naval surprise attack" much like Douglas Mc Arthur used against North Koreans later.

6) Versatility. The Japanese imperial forces were not a lousy force, they did well considering the difficult tasks they faced. If you want to play an airsoft game as Japanese side, then you must not think it is simply about charging in with a bayonet all the time. In fact much of the time it's about laying traps and ambushing, fighting as small units.

7) Numbers. Many believe that to have a decent Japanese side you need to have huge numbers. You need to swamp the enemy with sheer mass when you charge forward. This is not true. Much like the Mongol hordes were seen in the middle ages, historians and writers seem to have blamed much of the allied losses on Japanese numerical superiority. When in truth for most of the battles of world war 2 the Japanese were actually outnumbered. The myth of Asiatic hordes screaming against some isolated allied positions is very romantic but can only really be tied to the campaign at Kohima and Imfal on North India. Where isolated British and Indian garrisons faced the entire Japanese army division under command of Renya Mutaguchi who launched wave attacks against the British positions because he wanted to get into India quickly. That was very much like an Asian rorkes drift. Also the Australians in the early part of the Kokoda campaign were outnumbered, the choco units were decimated but eventually enough IAF regulars joined the fight to push back and then methodically annihilate the Japanese as payback. To think that in airsoft games it is necessary for a large Japanese side to be effective is ridiculous. By all means if you can get the numbers great... but most time the IJA fought against larger opponents and it fought them well.

8) Ambush, booby traps and stealth. These are the key factors in any Japanese force. The IJA were masters of personal camouflage and stealth warfare. They were able to cross "impenetrable jungle", land on "heavily defended cities" and stall and even pin down large numbers of arguably better equipped troops. Much of this was done by Ambush and stealth, doesn't sound very heroic or romantic but that is the bitter truth. Less banzai and more Booby traps... that's the way to really get a feel for the IJA tactics.

9) Weather, we tend to think of the climate in the pacific as being a lot hotter than here in the UK which it most definitely is but there was as much if not more rain there than we get here... which means that it is perfectly okay to battle in mud and rain, perhaps not snow... unless your fighting in Manchuria or Korea but yes pretty much all year round it's possible to play.

10) Most important factor of all have fun and be dedicated to what your doing. Just because the Japanese side lost in the war doesn't mean we have to loose all the games and if we do loose we still make sure we enjoy the experience :) I wish you all the very best and hope to get a big game going soon that will be awesome.

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Topic starter Posted : 06/02/2015 4:17 pm




dadio
(@dadio)
Famed Member

You probably have a point about steriotypes but not so much in the prejurdice , I'd have no issue fighting as Japanese other than the need for a new uniform ,men are men from wherever they come from they have the same hopes ,dreams and asperations and most were conscripted and had little or no choice in what happened , weapons are not that big a deal , Bren gun or ZB26 and a wood effect rifle is good enough for getting the ball rolling for a Japanese army .
One of the thing's that's harder is the lack of general knowledge about specific battles involved , as it was more remote it has not become as iconic as the European theater , some of the shortcomings in the Japanese army such as tank's would be irrelevant to an airsoft event and the superb zero fighter would also not be relavant as we are just infantry .
If you want to plan a game then you need first to choose a battle that people are aware of ,possibly Burma , was there a well known battle to wet the imagination .

armoury
m1a1 Thompson,sten mk2,mp40,stg44,sterling,mk2 bren gun,lee Enfield no4 mk1,Mauser Kar98, Walther ppk,smith and Weston m10 and Mauser m712
Give me a big enough hammer and a place to stand and I could fix the world.
i'll kill a man in a fair fight or if i think he's going to start a fair fight or over a woman or.......
a problem shared is a problem halved ,but an advantage shared is no advantage at all
if a job's not worth doing then its certainly not worth doing well





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Posted : 06/02/2015 4:57 pm




(@prideofengland)
Noble Member

I must admit to pricing some Japanese kit this morning from SOF, partly because I suspect a far east game may be in the offing. Basic uniform , hat, puttees and webbing was about £160, not to bad I thought for a loadout. that with some low boots and a K98 should do the job. I'm prepared to do SS so Japanese is no problem. I like your thoughts on stealth and ambushes but we would have to do a banzai charge just for the hell of it :wink:

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Posted : 06/02/2015 5:03 pm




BootedFeet
(@bootedfeet)
Honorable Member

I've been silent on his section but I've been reading through your posts and I will say it's nice to have someone with such interest in an 'unpopular' faction who fought in a

comparatively overlooked corner of the war.

This:

Ambush, booby traps and stealth. These are the key factors in any Japanese force. The IJA were masters of personal camouflage and stealth warfare. They were able to

cross "impenetrable jungle", land on "heavily defended cities" and stall and even pin down large numbers of arguably better equipped troops. Much of this was done by Ambush and

stealth, doesn't sound very heroic or romantic but that is the bitter truth. Less banzai and more Booby traps... that's the way to really get a feel for the IJA tactics.

Is precisely what interests me about the IJA/SNLF, they really brought new ideas to the table with regards to jungle warfare and by all accounts achieved a great deal despite their lacking in firepower and armour and their chronic logistical issues.

I shall be watching this section with interest :good:

P.S: If anyone is interested in getting a look at that mysterious wartime Bushido-like Japanese mindset; "Tales by Japanese Soldiers" by Kazuo Tamayama and Jhon Nunneley is a collection of diary entries and letters by Japanese soldiers fighting in the Burma campaign arranged in chronological order. Interesting stuff, I'm reading through it at the moment and it gives you some idea of just how hard a war they had.

I've fired a bullet on every continent. Nearly hit someone, too.



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Posted : 06/02/2015 5:15 pm




cjw957
(@cjw957)
Famed Member

well i can safely say i know a few folks that are willing to play japanese , myself i seemed to have gained a new loadout etc of it (also can double up as vc for nam games) , and yes i still need to drop you a pm pride :)

it can be relative cheap with iki havign a top anf bottoms for $61 bucks , they also do a cheap set for breadbag water container and gloves , belt webbing set from india £31 by courier ! (and its not to bad ) , can also pick up cheap caps off ebay i not looking at spending a ton as it will still be a odd game that it gets used i am also fueled by a new japanese bolt action armour that i am hoping to paint , though i said that about my US and German one as well lol

:)




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Posted : 06/02/2015 6:26 pm




Moss
 Moss
(@moss)
Prominent Member

I'm also down for playing Japanese, though I don't have much spare cash so I'm not sure I could buy the proper kit this year but I could put a look a like kit together no problem. :good:

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Posted : 06/02/2015 6:37 pm




(@prideofengland)
Noble Member

(also can double up as vc for nam games)
:)

Good point :good:

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Posted : 06/02/2015 7:30 pm




MartinR
(@martinr)
Famed Member

As mikoyans guide shows, anyone who has even a bit of Russian or British kit can bodge up a Japanese impression.

We just need to organise a game, it just isn't a very mainstream subject.

Cheers
Martin

"Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" Helmuth von Moltke
Toys: AGM MP40, Cyma M1A1, TM M14/G43/SVT40, TM VSR/K98, SnS No. 4, ASG Sten, Ppsh.

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Posted : 06/02/2015 8:46 pm




Russe11
(@russe11)
Honorable Member

I would think the easiest way to start on Pacific games would be without the Americans. Most of the US/Japanese fighting involved large scale fighting on islands. The British or Australian vs Japanese fighting is better suited to a small scale game as it is more jungle based. Malaya or Kokoda would be the place I would suggest starting. In fact Kokoda would be a great basis for a very small game as it's basically a whole campaign based upon fighting over a very small path.

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Posted : 06/02/2015 11:32 pm




Allenby
(@allenby)
Noble Member

Book an urban site and do the Battle of Manilla. Job done. ;)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



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Posted : 07/02/2015 9:48 am




Hirate Sakimori
(@hirate-sakimori)
Eminent Member

Thanks to everyone for your interest, support and kind input.

well i can safely say i know a few folks that are willing to play japanese , myself i seemed to have gained a new loadout etc of it (also can double up as vc for nam games) , and yes i still need to drop you a pm pride :)
:)

Interesting you mention this, not only were the NVA tactics similar to those of the World war 2 IJA but more to the point there is evidence suggesting that many retired or even rogue IJA were helping the NVA and even the VC. So much that perhaps some of the sharpest minds and swords of the IJA were working for both sides of the War, some were even helping train US and South Vietnamese personnel on jungle warfare. Plus the kit can also be used for elements of the earlier war in Korea. Also the IJA army of Manchuria can also be used in a entirely different scenario too. More on this later.

I would think the easiest way to start on Pacific games would be without the Americans. Most of the US/Japanese fighting involved large scale fighting on islands. The British or Australian vs Japanese fighting is better suited to a small scale game as it is more jungle based. Malaya or Kokoda would be the place I would suggest starting. In fact Kokoda would be a great basis for a very small game as it's basically a whole campaign based upon fighting over a very small path.

Yes I love this idea starting small is probably best and then expanding on this. Kokoda campaign was utterly brutal for both sides even though in terms of scale it might not be as large as the Kursk or the Bulge, it was still very important to Australia and was also the first time the IJA war machine was halted. A little bit about the background on this one.

ABDACOM, was the allied name for a joint command system that spanned a quarter of the worlds surface and two of the large Oceans. It was a command of American, British, Australian and Dutch colonial interests poised to halt the expansion of the IJA and IJN. In December 1941 Japan felt hurt by the Allies. Since 1937 the Japanese had been fighting the Chinese and came close to knocking the Chinese out of the war entirely... Imperial Japan wanted to replace China as the dominant force in the Asian continent. It saw China as the weak sick man of Asia and felt it could do a better job of running Asia. Also the Japanese wanted to expand just like the British had in the 19th century 2* and dominate regional trade and resources. Britain and the US at first supported Japan because Japan had proved useful in the past for checking the advance of Russia in the East and for helping to crush Chinese anti-foreign movements in the early 20th century, thus opening up China's resources to the world.

That all changed when US and Britain realised that by the late 30's Japan was now allying itself with Fascist Germany and Italy to form the axis. The Allies decided to use the "Burma road" to keep China supplied against the Japanese invasion. Also the allies placed a strict embargo on Japan limiting trade of vital resources like steel and oil from being sold to the Japanese. Japan was being slowly starved into submission or so the Allies thought. Unfortunately the Japanese had other ideas, they reacted to the blockade and to the underhand support of China by openly launching their expansionist policy. Hours before the assault on Pearl Harbour, IJA and IJN forces landed in Thailand and Malaya and rapidly swept down to Singapore in less than 8 weeks. Pearl Harbour was attacked in December 1941 and thanks to popular Media almost everyone knows about this. What people don't know is that Pearl Harbour was just phase one... The IJN went on a several month Rampage. Destroying Hong Kong in days by land, Sea and Air. Guadalcanal, and soon most of the Philippines were also taken by storm ... a few weeks later at Port Darwin in Australia IJN wiped out the Royal Australian Navy. The IJN then smashed the Dutch Royal Navy at Malacca off the coast of Indonesia and later British Garrison at Ceylon/Shri Lanka in the Indian Ocean to effectively eliminate any allied naval relief forces. For a few of the early months in 1942 the Japanese empire stretched from the Indian Ocean to the Pacific... not bad for a new power and even more alarming that they had massacred upwards of 400,000 allied troops with less than a quarter of that number lost on their own side. The massacre of ABDACOM1* was a huge shock. To us in Britain it would seem like a worrying development in the far East... but to the Australians for whom the region was the "Near North" this was an absolute nightmare. Not since the Asiatic hordes of Atilla and Ghengis Khan had a power come so close to terrifying what was essentially a European based civilisation.

The Australians mobilised what forces they had available that summer. Unfortunately the bulk of Australia's professional AIF (Australian Imperial Force) was in foreign lands serving the British Empire. In North Africa and Singapore the Australians were bearing the Brunt of fighting and few would be able to help out in the defence of Australia itself.

What happened was a lot of young men joined Australia's volunteer army and shipped out for the Island of Papua New Guinea. There, at the height of the Summer in July 1942 they had the simple task of preventing a large Japanese force which had landed on the North side of the Island, from marching down the Kokoda trail and attacking the Southern Port Moresby. The Volunteers were famously dubbed "Choco's" chocolate soldiers because they apparently melted during combat. However despite the unfair label these men fought bravely stalling the Japanese Division and giving enough time for regular troops to arrive. The Australians gradually built up their forces at a village mid way along the track called "Isurava". 3* It was at this point that they hoped to force the rapidly advancing Japanese to stop and maybe turn them back. The Australian position was strong, on elevated ground. The troops were well dug in (IJA had a chronic lack of artillery) and the Australians now had roughly equal numbers to the enemy. However the veteran IJA troops fought fanatically and succeeded in driving the Australians back from the heights, albeit with heavy losses. Yet again the Australians were forced to withdraw, fighting all the way down the track for the next few days. However the Japanese failed to press their attack, the heavy losses and fatigue were kicking in. While the Australians were constantly getting a trickle of new men and supplies the Japanese were to face several cruel blows. Their land forces were stalled in the Philippines were the Americans and their allies were fighting back. Also at Sea the IJN was to suffer several setbacks and would for the rest of the war be on the back foot. The Japanese had forced the Australians all the way back onto Port Morseby itself and were within sight of Australia, if they could just push on and take the port, they could mass forces and make a dash for the Australian mainland... but it was not to be. With Supply lines stretched and the Navy battered and bled dry, the IJA would spend the rest of the war retreating. The Australians would not only hold them off in the near North but later join the fight in the campaigns of India, Burma, Malaya and the Philippines... the war was by no means over but that Autumn 1942 4* the Australians could breathe a huge sigh of relief... they came close to being invaded but thankfully the skill and courage of the Choco's and AIF had saved them. The IJA were also a long way from being beaten, they still had a lot of fight left in them and would in fact learn to be even more cautious. Both sides learned a lot about logistics and the importance of movement, concealment and manoeuvre.

Some important extra things to consider in an Airsoft skirmish game.

Japanese and Australian small teams in search and destroy patrols.

One team can be carrying something vitally important to the other, Intel or maps or documents... or simply food you wont believe how desperate some armies will be for a tin of biscuits...

Japanese team should have more re-spawn areas so the illusion is created that there are more of them coming from all over the woodwork...

Japanese team can have extra bandage or self tie bandages to increase stamina and fight endurance.

Australian troops should have ammo dumps or re supply points pre determined and also places to retreat to... hold and defend point A for 10 minutes or points A to E for 30 minutes for example.

Japanese troops should be limited with ammo, less ammo and less automatic wepaons will lead to more tactical fighting

Yes we can have banzai charge bonuses... :D

Australian team should also be allowed to have entrenched positions and can call on re-enforcement units.

Japanese cannot call on re-enforcements and if AIF or Choco forces locate a re-spawn area they can destroy it with a charge... :)

References and further reading:
1* "The Massacre of ABDACOM", J. Lee Ready, published 2013, Monticello.
2* "The Path of Infinite Sorrow, The Japanese on the Kokoda Track", Craig Collie and Hajime Marutani, Published 2012, Allen and Unwin (reprint)
3* "The Kokoda campaign 1942: Myth and Reality", Dr Peter Williams, Published 2012, Cambridge University press.
4* "Kokoda for dummies" Dr Peter Williams, Published 2012, John Wiley and Sons.

iconic as the European theater , some of the shortcomings in the Japanese army such as tank's would be irrelevant to an airsoft event and the superb zero fighter would also not be relavant as we are just infantry .
If you want to plan a game then you need first to choose a battle that people are aware of ,possibly Burma , was there a well known battle to wet the imagination .

Well with regards to Burma there were many many battles and a mind like mine could not possibly do justice to all of them. A few points to note about Burma however is the lack of historical detail with regards to Empire forces and especially the very large and often under represented Indian forces which were probably the bulk of the British army at the time.

Also there are two distinct phases of the IJA experience in Burma, forgive me for the somewhat BIAS on my part towards IJA as I am more familiar with their tactics and mind set than that of their opponents so naturally I tend to see things through a Sake lake as it were... anyway the Japanese experience in Burma had two phases. The early part of the campaign which was marked with astonishing success for the IJA, and the latter stages of the campaign by which time the IJA was not even putting up a fight at all. Likewise the Allies gradually adapted tactics of their own so that by the end of the campaign far more use of air power and parachute drops was key in driving back the Japanese forces.

One area that makes interesting gameplay is small unit actions rather than set piece battles. Like Ruse11 has pointed out with the Kokoda campaign idea of small unit actions over a path... Burma too saw very similar small unit fighting over "Burma road" a now legendary supply line vital for the Chinese war effort. It was defended by a mix of forces British, Indian, sometimes Chinese and even elements of other nations not to mention Burmese fierce tribal warriors too. Also Orde Windgates "Chindits" offer a fascinating element to the battle.

The Chindits were the first Jungle LRRP as Vietnam veterans will know. Long Rang Reconnaissance Patrols... were all about penetrating deep behind enemy lines and causing chaos beyond all scope of such small units if they were "regular" troops. The British had experimented with these tactics in the Deserts of North Africa against German and Italian forces and the tactics were adapted for Jungle fighting. . Chindits travelled light but were often supplied by air or had pre-arranged cache's and ammo dumps sometimes placed by native guerrilla troops. They would venture deep into the Jungle to attack Japanese army supply lines and disrupt communications and chaos a general nuisance to the invaders. The actual effectiveness of Orde Wingates force has been debated a lot and I am not entirely certain how effective they were or were not. I will dig around and find out more for you if I can.

Hopefully this gives us something to think about and feel free to contribute your own thoughts and ideas.

Thanks guys

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Topic starter Posted : 09/02/2015 1:10 pm




Russe11
(@russe11)
Honorable Member

Australia raised the 9th Division of the AIF for the defence against the Japanese (6th, 7th and 8th were in the middle east and N Africa). ABDACOM's strategy of placing forces all over the region, rather than concentrating forces however meant that almost the whole division was lost.
In fact the AIF were not the regular army. Australia's regular army was the part time Militia and the Australian constitution until 1945 didn't allow the use of the army outside of Australian territory. In both WW1 and WW2, this was circumvented by creating the AIF (Australian Imperial Force), which was made up of volunteers. The Militia were referred to as Choco's as it was considered that they would melt when the heat was on. They were sent to New Guinea (which was Australian Territory) mainly as a deterrent until the 3 divisions of AIF could be brought back to Australia. They were poorly trained and poorly equipped as the AIF were the priority.

The Kokoda campaign was all about supply lines. Nearly every battle was decided by a small unit getting around the flanks and capturing a section of the trail behind the enemy forces. This cuts the supply line and means that the whole force has to retreat beyond this point. Everything on both sides had to be carried on foot along a path barely wide enough for 2 people to pass. Only the Japanese had any artillery, a couple of small mountain guns. The Australians only had artillery support when the fighting neared Port Moresby.
In the end the campaign was decided by the overstretched supply lines of the Japanese. Guadalcanal had started and so supplies were diverted away from New Guinea. There was also an entire division tied up in Portuguese East Timor fighting a company of Australian commandos who were waging a guerilla war which made the Japanese think that a full scale invasion was imminent.
General MacArthur actually accused the Australians of being cowardly because they kept retreating at the beginning of the campaign, but had to eat his words after the battle of Buna-Gona (the far end of the trail, where the Japanese Bridgehead was), where American Troops were brought in for the 1st time and pretty much ran away.

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Posted : 09/02/2015 6:55 pm




Hirate Sakimori
(@hirate-sakimori)
Eminent Member

Australia raised the 9th Division of the AIF for the defence against the Japanese (6th, 7th and 8th were in the middle east and N Africa). ABDACOM's strategy of placing forces all over the region, rather than concentrating forces however meant that almost the whole division was lost.
In fact the AIF were not the regular army. Australia's regular army was the part time Militia and the Australian constitution until 1945 didn't allow the use of the army outside of Australian territory. In both WW1 and WW2, this was circumvented by creating the AIF (Australian Imperial Force), which was made up of volunteers. The Militia were referred to as Choco's as it was considered that they would melt when the heat was on. They were sent to New Guinea (which was Australian Territory) mainly as a deterrent until the 3 divisions of AIF could be brought back to Australia. They were poorly trained and poorly equipped as the AIF were the priority.

The Kokoda campaign was all about supply lines. Nearly every battle was decided by a small unit getting around the flanks and capturing a section of the trail behind the enemy forces. This cuts the supply line and means that the whole force has to retreat beyond this point. Everything on both sides had to be carried on foot along a path barely wide enough for 2 people to pass. Only the Japanese had any artillery, a couple of small mountain guns. The Australians only had artillery support when the fighting neared Port Moresby.
In the end the campaign was decided by the overstretched supply lines of the Japanese. Guadalcanal had started and so supplies were diverted away from New Guinea. There was also an entire division tied up in Portuguese East Timor fighting a company of Australian commandos who were waging a guerilla war which made the Japanese think that a full scale invasion was imminent.
General MacArthur actually accused the Australians of being cowardly because they kept retreating at the beginning of the campaign, but had to eat his words after the battle of Buna-Gona (the far end of the trail, where the Japanese Bridgehead was), where American Troops were brought in for the 1st time and pretty much ran away.

I see, apologies for getting that bit wrong, though I'm not the only one several academic sources also listed the AIF as regulars and not volunteers... Excellent knowledge Russe11 thanks for sharing and helping us to understand better.

I agree it was very much about small actions, the point you make about units outflanking each other and playing leap frog over a small track is also vital. I guess in a Skirmish it means plenty of opportunity for teams to get rather close, ambushing and trapping each other.

Also with regards to retreat, both sides literally went back and forth along the trail several times. However each step the Australians took backwards was costly for the Japanese. It was a fighting withdrawal not a rout asthe Americans might have thought. The Japanese lost the will to press home their attacks and also the pressure elsewhere eventually led to them giving up the push South.

Which makes me think another addition for games would be timed rounds where isolated units would have to reach objectives within certain times otherwise there would be a penalty.

For example Japanese side would need to reach a certain point by half an hour or so, failure to do so would result in half munitions during round two.

Likewise the same principle can be used on the Australians... or any other team when playing as the attacking side.

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Topic starter Posted : 10/02/2015 1:37 pm




(@mattywheels)
Noble Member

Sounds like you've all got some good ideas - best to try and keep the rules as simple as possible though, introducing rules for this occurrence and rules for that could make the day very confusing indeed.

Rather than get to carried away in planning, its probably an idea to get an idea of numbers - pop a thread up on the main general forum and ask who would be keen to take part in a PTO game :good:

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Posted : 10/02/2015 2:02 pm




Allenby
(@allenby)
Noble Member

Australia raised the 9th Division of the AIF for the defence against the Japanese (6th, 7th and 8th were in the middle east and N Africa). ABDACOM's strategy of placing forces all over the region, rather than concentrating forces however meant that almost the whole division was lost.

6th, 7th and 9th AIF Divisions were all allocated to the Middle East and were raised in 1939-1940.

8th AIF were raised in 1940 and were assigned to ABDACOM. Lark, Sparrow and Gull Forces were spread across Rabaul, Ambon and Timor as reinforced battalions, whilst the bulk of the Division went to Malaya under Bennett, where it performed relatively well; though there's always been a cloud regarding their conduct in the aftermath of the attack on Singapore Island where it's alleged they basically disintegrated then buggered off as a marauding mob. Very harsh criticism largely spread by Heath, whose own Corps had hardly showered themselves in glory.

Spare a thought for the British 18th 'Eastern' Division though; 2/3 rds of which got off the boat at Keppel Harbour with all their equipment just in time to surrender without firing a shot.



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Posted : 10/02/2015 2:37 pm




Hirate Sakimori
(@hirate-sakimori)
Eminent Member

Australia raised the 9th Division of the AIF for the defence against the Japanese (6th, 7th and 8th were in the middle east and N Africa). ABDACOM's strategy of placing forces all over the region, rather than concentrating forces however meant that almost the whole division was lost.

6th, 7th and 9th AIF Divisions were all allocated to the Middle East and were raised in 1939-1940.

8th AIF were raised in 1940 and were assigned to ABDACOM. Lark, Sparrow and Gull Forces were spread across Rabaul, Ambon and Timor as reinforced battalions, whilst the bulk of the Division went to Malaya under Bennett, where it performed relatively well; though there's always been a cloud regarding their conduct in the aftermath of the attack on Singapore Island where it's alleged they basically disintegrated then buggered off as a marauding mob. Very harsh criticism largely spread by Heath, whose own Corps had hardly showered themselves in glory.

Spare a thought for the British 18th 'Eastern' Division though; 2/3 rds of which got off the boat at Keppel Harbour with all their equipment just in time to surrender without firing a shot.

Many allied units were not trained for Jungle Warfare, the Indian brigades were the first to fight the Japanese and the first man to die at Kota Bahru where the Japanese first landed a few hours before the attack on Pearl Harbour was a Muslim soldier in one of the Punjbi Dogra Battalions. I think his name was Hassan something from Hyderabad in India.

Most of the Officers where British and they died early in the fighting, the poor Punjabi's were a long way from home, with little training and a lot of them were doing well in the start of the campaign but later the Japanese brought up light tanks, pathetic little tankettes really... but decisive deadly weapons in this fight because the British had no Tanks.

I think the Australians and the Indians fought bravely, at Kampar the Indian division backed with British Artillery held the Japanese up for two weeks before being outflanked and forced off the valley.

Later the Australians too gave a good account of themselves at Gemensah bridge where they ambushed and slaughtered about a Battalion of Japanese troops on bicycles. My Grandfather said the Japanese hated that and were very angry about the losses suffered at the hands of the Australians and Indians... apparently the allies also shot any Japanese troops left behind in attacks... which made the Japanese slaughter allied wounded and prisoners too. Really nasty fight.

What made it more nasty was that the newer troops were not used to tropical conditions. The Japanese had been "prepared" for this for a while but the Allies didn't stand a chance because their leaders were very bad. Percival, Gordon Bennet and others like them were hopeless. Even Archie Wavell couldn't do much because he had very little resources left and the Japanese were being helped locally.

I personally think all troops did what they could in this brutal episode of world war 2 but the leaders on the allies side were poor. Yamashita was the best general all round, and he opposed the war but had to fight it anyway. As part Japanese I feel shamed by men like Colonel Tsuji and others in the headquarters staff... they were good planners but very brutal and mean characters.

Sounds like you've all got some good ideas - best to try and keep the rules as simple as possible though, introducing rules for this occurrence and rules for that could make the day very confusing indeed.

Rather than get to carried away in planning, its probably an idea to get an idea of numbers - pop a thread up on the main general forum and ask who would be keen to take part in a PTO game :good:

Ah yes good point. Also location is important too, I am always sort of on the move and I am sure others might well be dotted around. I know the re-enactment society is very thin hence why not so many regular meetings. I was sort of hoping to get more interest and maybe start somewhere in the middle of England as a location. However if more interest is down South or up North then perhaps the site should be considered in those places.

Obviously I wasn't thinking of a game anytime soon, late summer being the soonest really. But no harm in planning this early on.

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Topic starter Posted : 10/02/2015 3:23 pm




Russe11
(@russe11)
Honorable Member

6th, 7th and 9th AIF Divisions were all allocated to the Middle East and were raised in 1939-1940.
8th AIF were raised in 1940 and were assigned to ABDACOM. Lark, Sparrow and Gull Forces were spread across Rabaul, Ambon and Timor as reinforced battalions

Oops, I stand corrected.

Timed rounds sound like a nightmare, far too complicated. It would be easier to just use a mechanic that involves the need to constantly send people for supplies. If the path is cut, you get the choice to clear it or move back to where the supplies have reached. The officers (organisers) decide when to send out small flanking parties to cut the enemy supply routes and thus control the flow of the game. You would need a rule that no-one leaves the path without instructions from an officer. Then a small group holding a section of path would prevent re-spawning troops or supply runs from reaching the main force.

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Posted : 10/02/2015 6:33 pm




Allenby
(@allenby)
Noble Member

No you were right. I was just being pedantic. ;)

If you're thinking about a Pacific/Far East game, keep it simple. It's about the mindset of the individual putting themselves in the role. You can add things in terms of props that can add to it, but the more rules you make for such and such a situation, the more it's likely to fold like a deck of cards.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



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Posted : 10/02/2015 9:19 pm




Russe11
(@russe11)
Honorable Member

Kebab the night before to simulate the dysentry :rofl:

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Posted : 11/02/2015 8:08 am




Hirate Sakimori
(@hirate-sakimori)
Eminent Member

Kebab the night before to simulate the dysentry :rofl:

ROTFLMAO :rofl:

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Topic starter Posted : 11/02/2015 9:20 am




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