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Universal Gunner
(@universal-gunner)
Reputable Member

Well I am VERY sorry to hear this. I have been looking forward to this event since it was first announced; bought the book (!); made sure I was free on the date and have been vague about other invitations/events in May because I wanted to make sure I was free to go on the training weekend. It has been difficult to appear enthusiastic online because of the nature of the event/mission and I didn't want to hassle the organisers via PM altgough I of course made my interest known.

The first Airsoft and WW2 event I went to was Hauptmann Horn. I only fired about 20bbs, didn't hit a thing but had such a fantastic time that I dived headlong into other events. I bought my scout suit for Schaulen but was unable to make that event hence my wanting to make sure I didn't miss Foxley.

Speaking briefly to Pete/Sgt Heide at The Drop he said that The Real World had been encroaching on the organising of this event and I just want to state here that I love the ethos behind the CiA events and appreciate very much all the hard work that they put into them. I hope that the rather depressing tone of the cancellation announcement is only because of the disappointment at having to cancel the event and does not indicate anything more terminal within CiA. I for one think that would be a bloody shame.

Charlie

I have a small skewer hidden in the collar of my jumping jacket, and a razorblade in my gaiter, as well as my knife.

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Topic starter Posted : 10/04/2012 9:45 pm
Seanebabes
(@seanebabes)
Reputable Member

Well I'll second that UG. I desperately hope this is not the end of CIA events (any reassurance gratefully received ). Absolutely superb spirit and organisation to all their events. Every one that I made it to I loved, bar none. You lads have immersed us in events that gave a feel for the period and living as a citizen soldier in the field.
I couldn't commit to this one as I will have a new baby to look after and 'mum' is taking a very boring view to my popping out for the weekend in July. But... I am already saving brownie points for the next one.




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Posted : 11/04/2012 7:38 am
(@prideofengland)
Noble Member

Yes truly a great shame, I had been looking forward to this one. As already stated by others I hope this is just the cancellation of an event rather than anything more. It is always good too see a variety of styles from game organisers for events and CIA have become legendary for theirs.

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Posted : 11/04/2012 7:53 am
(@mattywheels)
Noble Member

Just to echo the others, sorry to hear this event has fallen by the wayside. Big thanks to the organisers for all the effort that they would have already put into this event, its always appreciated

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Posted : 11/04/2012 8:02 am
MrSlippyfist
(@mrslippyfist)
Estimable Member

sad to hear it also , but i expected it. Its been a hard year or 2 for Pete, Steve and Guy trying to get this game going and the lack of interest and splinter airsoft groups forming has really taken its toll.
I hope this isnt the death of CIA as they do host the best WW2 airsoft events by some distance IMO.
I would like to thank Pete, Steve and Guy for there efforts over the past few years and its been a great time with you guys, but this is also the end of WW2 airsoft for me.
I will be selling my kit on the forums soon.
I have tried other WW2 games but none have the atmosphere or tension of CIA and blat fests or dressing up has never interested me.
So see you all, its been fun.

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Posted : 11/04/2012 8:16 am
HeadShot
(@headshot)
Illustrious Member

Thanks for the support chaps.

It seems you're now in the minority though and that most people aren't really interested in this sort of event. A LOT of the people who used to come along to our 24 hour/weekenders have moved on and there doesn't seem to be any demand for it any more. Whether that's to do with the style, misconceptions of 'hardcore' play - which we constantly strive to dismiss, that people just don't like us any more or just that people prefer to stop for lunch at a burger van, I'm not sure.

One thing I've been really trying to tackle with the other organisers is that I feel there are too many events that is really dividing the already very small player base to the point where people can't commit to more than one or two per year. As Pete has said, we have not wanted to dilute our style or broaden the player base by reducing age limits as we wouldn't then enjoy our own events - and that was our main reason for organising events, so that we could go to games that we enjoyed being part of ourselves. Unfortunately it seems I'm the only organiser who feels this way and that others are confident that more games is better for the community, regardless of whether they clash date or scenario-wise. Still, market forces dictate, and the market for the sort of events we want to organise is no longer big enough for us to be able to justify running them.

I just hope someone else organises events that I'd like to go to, but it's not looking very promising at the moment - with the exception of Patton this weekend.



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Posted : 11/04/2012 10:39 am
Wraith666
(@wraith666)
Honorable Member

It is sad to hear this, I was looking forward to this, had been preparing my kit and working on my soe skills by sneaking up on the dog, had it down to a T with him jumping when I tagged him, really love these kind of events, hope this is not the end, just a holiday break.

"Will you stop talking about the war!!"
"What, you started it!"
"We did NOT start it!"
"Yes you did, you invaded Poland..."

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Posted : 11/04/2012 11:13 am
marsha
(@marsha)
Noble Member

I was looking forward to this sorry to see this cancelled :(

Sent from my LG-P500 using Tapatalk





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Posted : 11/04/2012 11:44 am
(@lardassmonkey)
Famed Member

It is a great shame indeed. I think I was looking forward to this event more than any other this year and it is a real blow that it will never happen.

The demise of CiA will truely be the end of an era. I know its been coming for a while now but it would be unfortunate not to go out on a high. I'd just be sorry that I missed the last ever CiA event, although I think I can proudly say I was there for most of the best.
Your events have always been special and hold the top spots for the best I've ever played. Its just a shame so many of the old guard have moved on and most of the current crop don't know what they're missing. If it really is the end then all the best for the future for all involved and Steve I hope you find the games you're looking for.

Thanks for the memories CiA.

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Posted : 11/04/2012 11:45 am
(@pvtjohnny)
Reputable Member

This is sad news indeed. This event sounded awesome and different from the blatfests other organisers run. CIA were the people who showed me what the ww2 airsoft community could offer and Devils Hill got me hooked. The generosity, ethos and game play you guys brought to the scene should not be under estimated.
The last game you guys ran, Volturno, was in my opinion one of the best i have played. You were developing the squad/tactical approach way ahead of others and the effect it had at Volturno was very pleasing.
You guys have given me some of my best memories of ww2 airsoft and have brought me about as close as I could ever get to experiencing the life of a ww2 infantry soldier.
Please consider your continuation, even if it is one event a year. I felt Volturno looked promising for the future of CIA as lots booked on, loads of new faces and all enjoyed it. For all the excellent games provided by the likes of Gunman and AGS, you guys provide an experience, not just a game.

Either way, thanks for all your efforts, they have been greatly appreciated. WELL DONE CHAPS!



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Posted : 12/04/2012 9:54 am
Death Warrant
(@death-warrant)
Reputable Member

That really is such a shame as it looked to be an excellent event.

Had been gutted when i couldnt get the weekend off work to go.

I just hope its not the last of its type, as judging by all the hard work it was going to be something special.

Certainly hope its not the end of CiA as we know it, theres far to many things wrong with the world as it is!

Keep up the great work!

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Posted : 12/04/2012 11:01 am
Jimmiiee
(@jimmiiee)
Reputable Member

That really is such a shame as it looked to be an excellent event.

Had been gutted when i couldnt get the weekend off work to go.

I just hope its not the last of its type, as judging by all the hard work it was going to be something special.

Certainly hope its not the end of CiA as we know it, theres far to many things wrong with the world as it is!

Keep up the great work!

Pretty much the same here (Though it was my lift finding out he couldn't book the weekend of lol!)

I would love an opportunity to go to a CiA event


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Posted : 12/04/2012 7:41 pm
CHThree
(@chthree)
Noble Member

:( This is a shame, I was thinking about booking on as a civilian, I hadn't "expressed an interest" because I wasn't sure if I could afford it yet and was willing to take my chances with the event being fully booked later on. I'm not really au fait with the economies and pracicalities of running an airsoft event, but it does seem premature to cancel 3 months before the date because of low bookings, especially given the current economic climate when people may be less willing to commit their funds in advance.



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Posted : 12/04/2012 9:29 pm
Sgt.Heide
(@sgt-heide)
Illustrious Member

Problem is Ranj', is that WE have to commit funds and an awful lot of time on site recce's, a working gameplan, research and a load of other things well in advance of even announcing an event, so, we are out of pocket before you guys even know about an upcomng game. As Steve and I have already said, the effort outweighs the reward these days, as it appears that the majority of players aren't really into weekend events, nor into the type of events that we put on. It's nice to hear all of the comments made on this thread but, let's be honest, they're only from a handful of players - nowhere near enough to merit putting the event on.

We had some great things planned for Foxley, noone is more gutted than I am that we have had to can it. With the lack of support for this type of event, it seems only logical to wrap things up and move onto other things and be left with good memories. I now have more time (and funds!) to devote to my real hobby of bushcrafting/wildcamping (call it what you will) and can pick and choose which (if any) airsoft events I go to as a paying punter. None of the WW2 games on offer after Patton Stalled have that extra "something" that I'm looking for - hopefully, that may change in the future but, with things as they are, I can't see that happening.



When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!

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Posted : 12/04/2012 10:17 pm
rifleman6925
(@rifleman6925)
Prominent Member

Well Pete, Guy and Steve, I can only mirror what has already been said, however, I am sadly disappointed that the game has had to be cancelled and the end of CIA, who for me have organised some of the best WW2 airsoft events I have had the pleasure to attend. . Good luck to you all and I will see some of you at future games, all the best, Tony.

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Posted : 12/04/2012 11:28 pm
Universal Gunner
(@universal-gunner)
Reputable Member

There is probably not much any of us can say to make those who make up CiA change their minds. As Pete has said; in their view "the effort outweighs the reward these days".

I am new to this, I don't know what has changed from 2010 when CiA got whatever award it was for best Airsoft event "as voted for". My first event was Horn which seems to have received a fair few votes as best WW2 Airsoft event ever in the off-topic thread but I couldn't make Schaulen (cricket tour to Menorca) or Volturno (clashed with Pickering which I had promised to attend with the GF). I would have loved to have gone to both those events if not already otherwise engaged. What has been the massive change in the last year? Is it that friends of CiA have left or disappeared and that CiA don't know or trust the new blood? Is it that CiA are guilty of what they appear to be accusing everyone else of - short attention spans and they are bored and wish to ditch WW2 Airsoft and do something else? Is it that CiA feel that they are not getting the recognition they feel they deserve quickly enough when they announce an event? Is it that other factors have made WW2 Airsoft too time consuming?

I may be wrong but the more events the better so that I can at least make some (as many as I can) to get some sort of reasonable return (can you tell I'm an accountant?) on all the toys I have cluttering up my house. That too will bring more people into the hobby. So here I disgree with Steve - what is the point of a couple of events a year? I am not an airsofter and I am not a re-enactor I am a WW2 airsofter. Two events - sods' law I may not be able to make either - am I still a WW2 airsofter or just someone with a pile of junk he's not used for a year?

The events will be different dependent on the organisers and people can pick and choose. I believe there are still a significant number who would see the fact that CiA are organising a game as a reason to immediately move that to the top of the list of events they wish to attend or try to attend. I have to agree with Ranj over the speed of the cancellation, the event was announced ages ago then nothing. Then it moves again and after a few days there are posts about not enough interest and then cancellation. Drip feeding is the way to go - AGS are excellent at that and that was what I remember from Horn too. People want to come, they may be just don't realise how much they want to!

Notice is very important (well done Josh on this), I don't need full details of an event but some idea so I can try and keep the weekend free and then as it approaches - a reveal and then booking.
I kept Foxley weekend free because the notice was given but then had to chase Pete at The Drop about the training weekend. I have been waiting patiently to give CiA my money as soon as they asked for it. As I said in my first post the nature of the event was that we were all told to keep cards close to the chest.

On a more personal note none of the comments above were meant to offend and I think it is a great loss to WW2 Airsoft if CiA folds and an even bigger one if the individual members of CiA are thinking of giving it all up. I have found myself in a a section with Pete twice: once at Horn as Royal Signals escorting Hess and more recently at The Drop and his skills in bushcraft and leadership in the field certainly added an extra dimension to my experience. Thank you.

I have a small skewer hidden in the collar of my jumping jacket, and a razorblade in my gaiter, as well as my knife.

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Topic starter Posted : 13/04/2012 12:19 am
HeadShot
(@headshot)
Illustrious Member

There is probably not much any of us can say to make those who make up CiA change their minds. As Pete has said; in their view "the effort outweighs the reward these days".

I am new to this, I don't know what has changed from 2010 when CiA got whatever award it was for best Airsoft event "as voted for". My first event was Horn which seems to have received a fair few votes as best WW2 Airsoft event ever in the off-topic thread but I couldn't make Schaulen (cricket tour to Menorca) or Volturno (clashed with Pickering which I had promised to attend with the GF). I would have loved to have gone to both those events if not already otherwise engaged. What has been the massive change in the last year? Is it that friends of CiA have left or disappeared and that CiA don't know or trust the new blood? Is it that CiA are guilty of what they appear to be accusing everyone else of - short attention spans and they are bored and wish to ditch WW2 Airsoft and do something else? Is it that CiA feel that they are not getting the recognition they feel they deserve quickly enough when they announce an event? Is it that other factors have made WW2 Airsoft too time consuming?

I may be wrong but the more events the better so that I can at least make some (as many as I can) to get some sort of reasonable return (can you tell I'm an accountant?) on all the toys I have cluttering up my house. That too will bring more people into the hobby. So here I disgree with Steve - what is the point of a couple of events a year? I am not an airsofter and I am not a re-enactor I am a WW2 airsofter. Two events - sods' law I may not be able to make either - am I still a WW2 airsofter or just someone with a pile of junk he's not used for a year?

The events will be different dependent on the organisers and people can pick and choose. I believe there are still a significant number who would see the fact that CiA are organising a game as a reason to immediately move that to the top of the list of events they wish to attend or try to attend. I have to agree with Ranj over the speed of the cancellation, the event was announced ages ago then nothing. Then it moves again and after a few days there are posts about not enough interest and then cancellation. Drip feeding is the way to go - AGS are excellent at that and that was what I remember from Horn too. People want to come, they may be just don't realise how much they want to!

Notice is very important (well done Josh on this), I don't need full details of an event but some idea so I can try and keep the weekend free and then as it approaches - a reveal and then booking.
I kept Foxley weekend free because the notice was given but then had to chase Pete at The Drop about the training weekend. I have been waiting patiently to give CiA my money as soon as they asked for it. As I said in my first post the nature of the event was that we were all told to keep cards close to the chest.

On a more personal note none of the comments above were meant to offend and I think it is a great loss to WW2 Airsoft if CiA folds and an even bigger one if the individual members of CiA are thinking of giving it all up. I have found myself in a a section with Pete twice: once at Horn as Royal Signals escorting Hess and more recently at The Drop and his skills in bushcraft and leadership in the field certainly added an extra dimension to my experience. Thank you.

There are more than a few reasons behind the decision to cancel.

We had actually been posting in the forum for the last couple of months with bits and bobs, but we desperately needed to do a site recce to Keighley which was becoming more and more difficult to arrange as we've all recently had changes of circumstances with new jobs or family commitments.

It's a long way to travel and we couldn't commit the outlay on petrol with the risk of the event not going ahead. In the end we decided to announce without doing the full site recce as we knew we could work around any changes to the site like deforestation since we were last there.

We looked at the interest registered on the forum for the event since we announced last autumn and asked for people to get in touch with us via PM to register interest. Unfortunately we only received four PMs to this effect, and this was for both sides. There hadn't been any posts in the forum and we hadn't received a single booking since announcing, which is unprecedented. In light of the fact that, in total, we could only count around 10 people who'd registered interest at all since the autumn, we took the decision to can the event before we incurred costs on a site recce which we had scheduled for tomorrow. This was at the same time that Kermit had taken the decision to move on from WW2 airsoft.

To answer your questions directly:

What has been the massive change in the last year?

All four of us have new jobs, have become full time students and family commitments which have meant that we've gone from organising 3-4 events per year to 1-2. This was to be the first and we were planning something big for the Autumn.

Is it that friends of CiA have left or disappeared and that CiA don't know or trust the new blood?

In short yes, and in a way that can be seen by the level of traffic on this forum. A couple of years ago we used to get lots of people posting and there was a very lively atmosphere on the forum. Despite Dave's valiant efforts it's clear that traffic has dropped off since the rebrand of the forum and a lot of the old people we knew well have moved on - in particular a good number of people who were particularly partial to our brand of game.

We certainly do trust the new blood and have found very strong players and supporters in many new people in the last year. Rifleman and PvtJohnny being two people who, in particular, stick out in my mind as being very enthusiastic players and up for any challenge. However, we haven't seen a fast enough turnover in new players replace those who have dropped out. As we also have a lower age limit it means that a lot of the younger chaps who attend other organisers events are able to come to ours, and that was something we knew would affect us, but we just didn't want to have children at our events for many and varied reasons.

Is it that CiA are guilty of what they appear to be accusing everyone else of - short attention spans and they are bored and wish to ditch WW2 Airsoft and do something else?

Absolutely not! We've been doing this for six years as a team, I've been organising WW2 games since 2004! This weekend Pete and I will be going to a game with people who attended the first WW2 game in the country that I organised.

Is it that CiA feel that they are not getting the recognition they feel they deserve quickly enough when they announce an event?

No, not really, though we definitely needed more than 10 people registering any interest in the event to make it viable.

Is it that other factors have made WW2 Airsoft too time consuming?

Partly, yes.

So here I disgree with Steve - what is the point of a couple of events a year?

I don't hold that view. I think an event a month is fine, or eight events a year perhaps. But where events are a week or two apart, or where the themes clash I do have an issue with this. Last year we created a hidden organisers section of the forum to discuss the planning of events in a coordinated way to make sure we could plan ahead in good time and that we weren't treading on one-another's toes with event dates or ideas. CiA bagged a couple of dates, but we had to change the first one because of site and organiser availability and we were planning something for October, so this wasn't ideal from our point of view. Many other organisers also announced dates and ideas. But a few events have popped into the calendar unannounced and without discussion which has meant there are some date clashes. This is where I think the small pool of WW2 players gets split. I might be wrong, it might be that there are enough people to go around. However, given that a couple of years ago we were getting 60 players to events and booking them out within days, then something has definitely changed. It could be the recession I suppose.

On a more personal note none of the comments above were meant to offend and I think it is a great loss to WW2 Airsoft if CiA folds and an even bigger one if the individual members of CiA are thinking of giving it all up.

No offence taken. You definitely make some good points, and we could have done more to promote Foxley earlier, but life got in the way with work, redundancies and family commitments as well as lots of other games that were due to run before ours. We felt that it was fair to announce at the beginning of April and this had always been our plan. As I've said, when we could only see 10 people even viewing the forum, let alone getting in touch with us, we took that as our cue that the sort of events we organise, and love to attend, aren't really in high demand. We needed a good number of Germans for this, and only two or three people had registered any interest for that since autumn! Timing was critical, we had to make a decision quickly and after six years of slogging away organising 18 events that hadn't had any problems with booking numbers, we decided to knock it on the head.



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Posted : 13/04/2012 9:35 am
MrSlippyfist
(@mrslippyfist)
Estimable Member

isnt there a famous quote "if you build it they will come"?

Well i know for a fact that Pete was planning this game over 2 years ago and he has put lots of ground work into the planning aspect.

The fact unfortunatley looks like the "they will come part" just hasnt happened.

I dont think , knowing Pete as his brother that he is the kind of guy to walk away from something he has wanted to do for such a long time with some of the best airsofters i've ever met just to go and do "other" things.
its not the way Pete works and i dont think its the way Steve or Guy work either.
Just unfortunate and un avoidable that people will obviously see it that way.
WW2 airsoft is a small community and right now its spread too thin, with some groups having high standards or kit that some people cannot reach due to finacial or other commitment reasons or travel distances etc.

Like Steve said in a previous post , the type of games he looks for are the ones that CIA organised, some/most others do not give that type of live in the field realism, so i for one fully understand where he is coming from.

Myself and Pete have played paintball and airsoft for over 25 years so we now know the kind of games we want to play, having done most things in the past.

It is a sad day if CIA is no more , but others will come , they always do.
Time to accept it and move on, but everything CIA have done as a group , not just organisers but players old and new i would like to thank.

cheers all

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Posted : 13/04/2012 10:28 am
Universal Gunner
(@universal-gunner)
Reputable Member

Thanks for your response Steve. Hmm, I hadn't realised registered interest was that low. I don't understand it myself. It seemed, like Horn, a cracking scenario and I was really looking forward to it, if slightly apprehensive about my own abilities. Blatfests are not my thing. For me the gun is just a prop, they rarely seem to work in my hands and when they do even a barn door presents a rather elusive target. I guess I am personally just a bit miffed that I have come to this so late and missed so many great events and now there are unlikely to be any more CiA led ones. I hope someone else takes up the mantle.

This was to be the first and we were planning something big for the Autumn.

OK, OK don't make it even worse!

This weekend Pete and I will be going to a game with people who attended the first WW2 game in the country that I organised.

I will see you there - I will be the one shouting "Medic" at irritatingly regular intervals.

I have a small skewer hidden in the collar of my jumping jacket, and a razorblade in my gaiter, as well as my knife.

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Topic starter Posted : 13/04/2012 11:15 am
Sgt.Heide
(@sgt-heide)
Illustrious Member

I have found myself in a a section with Pete twice: once at Horn as Royal Signals escorting Hess and more recently at The Drop and his skills in bushcraft and leadership in the field certainly added an extra dimension to my experience. Thank you.

Thankyou for those very kind words. I've always sought to help people to enjoy themselves on as many levels as possible, so, if I've managed that, I am all the more happy for it. You may even see me rear my ugly head with training events if there's still any demand for them but, these would be independently run, not as a "CiA" thing.



When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!

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Posted : 13/04/2012 8:17 pm
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