I blame a slow day at work for my input.
Okay... I had a chat with a friend who does similar but different stuff to us.
He reckons the first thing to do is sort out some PLI... or at the very least chat to an insurance broker to check what our position is.
or at the very least chat to an insurance broker to check what our position is.
Very good idea, as this could turn out to be quite complicated....
When we were a Kingdom it was run by a King
When we were an Empire it was run by an Empress
Now we're a country we're run by a..........
But this is what I was getting at. PLI is the responsibility of the site owners, not us.
We formulate games for site owners to run, on their site, to make money to purchase things like insurance.
What we need to do first is to work out what our responsibilities are if things go tits up, as that's the only reason we'd need to get all this officialdom and buraucracy sorted in the first place.
If we have to go down the route of split liability, AGMs and insurance etc, I'd most likely take a mahoosive step to the rear and just play the games you guys organise because I got out of Fireball and effing Dog Company partly to avoid all this red tape and don't really want to step back into it. I do this sort of stuff in my day job, I don't want to do it during playtime too.
Please don't read that as a threat, it's just a sanity clause.
I'm not asking you to do anything steve.
I suggest we have a small core that deals with this stuff and those that don't want to don't have to!
I'd rather not do this either, but I'm willing to take a look...
As far as us not being affected because of the sites PLI it may be a concern if the site's insurer turns round and trys to lay the blame on us... then we're screwed.
But this may not be anything we need to worry about... but we need to check!
It may just mean that we need to get something written up officially to say what our position is..
Understood.
Bleurgh..... 
I can't agree more.
I just wanna play airsoft... lol... I mean WW2 airsoft! 
100% with Steve. What is with all this bollocks?
Rich - stop and take a breath, you are thinking with your keyboard. There will be no time next week to discuss this issue let alone get bloody forms signed.
Discuss this over the next three months, not the next three minutes.
If the issue is that Richard doesn't want to handle the accounts then fine, I will volunteer and the issue will go away. If the issue is that we need to think about establishing something more permanant then fine, thinking we must do. But not today or tomorrow...
Fair enough. With accounts we can delay, but with PLI investigations I don't think thats an option!
Tend to agree with David , WTF is all this bollox about ?. These are long term issues that need to be discussed and agreed properly, not done on the fly. CW runs his own company and business management is my education and job. I'm sure we can properly reserach analyse and decide a correct course of action so chill out .
Okay... look guys. I was in the town centre, I was talking to my Building Society guy about ISAs. I wouldn't have bothered to go out and sort this if I wasn't already there doing stuff.
I don't like the way we have
Because YOU are creating a problem that may not exist!
It hasn't mattered until you brought it up yesterday so why is it so important today?
I have already said if you are not happy about handling our cash then fine, I'll deal with it, worry no more.
You won't be charged tax on it. If you should be investigated by the IR (or whatever they call themselves now 
) then it may be an issue but easily resolved.
I can't see PLI is an issue at all. Whether at Phoenix or Lightfighter (where you cracked you head last time IIRC). The estate has PLI, Phoenix has PLI. How many time do you need to insure a risk? We are not an entity (since we have yet to formalise the association) so if anyone wanted to sue us (have you EVER heard of an airsoft site being sued?) they would have to sue us jointly and severally. Not going to happen is it.
Go and see a broker if you want (I may contact mine at some point if you want corroboration) but they are there to sell you insurance!
No idea why all the theatrics, but calm down!
BTW, PLI is very cheap (normally just an add-on to run-of-the-mill business contents/building insurance schemes). Still, as I have a pathological aversion to giving insurance companies MORE money than the fortune I already do I would rather avoid if not absolutely necessary. 
PS - this spell checker add-in for IE is fantastic! Long words correctly spelt!
Ah... good... some proper discussion at last.
Sorry, but it was you who started the theatrics... anyway enough of the finger pointing. The point is something is actually being discussed!
Okay... The reason why this all came up...
I am concerned about Tax... I've never had to worry about it in my life. Its always been sorted for me by PAYE so I know nothing about it!
Your words do indeed help there. You I'm sure know plenty about tax. The fact you don't think that is a problem reassures me and I'm happy to leave the discussion of accounts until a later date.
As for PLI... well that came as a result of discussions with my friend who runs the wargames shows I have dealings with. (I was asking about the bank account thing) Now he's pretty turned on about this sort of thing. He's an accountant by trade and has been running events for the last ten years or so. He suggested that we should make sure we're safe. In his case he hires out fairly large event halls for our events, even though they have PLI he gets some himself. This is to cover him and the group in general. The PLI that the event hall have just covers the event hall.
He explained to me that the site's PLI will cover the site owner. It won't cover us for damages. Now what that means is if someone were to sue us then we wouldn't be able to use the site's PLI. What we need to determine is whether there is any risk that we might be liable for and if so if that risk makes it worthwhile to take out insurance.
Me, I'm not sure...
As for brokers... yup I am concerned that they are there to sell stuff... I never trust any of these guys unless they have earned my trust. I remember when buying my first house the independent advisor trying to sell me an endowment policy. Now I didn't because I'd already had advice against them from my family. However he pushed and pushed and pushed for it. The reason I know now is that he would get greater commission on an endowment mortgage over a repayment one. I look now and see what a fecking mess I'd be in if I'd followed his advice.
Now I do have a cousin who knows about insurance. He used to be an independent advisor, I don't think he is any more though. He may be able to advise on this. However I'm not sure and I was wondering if any of you guys had any comments. Helpful ones backed up with clear thinking and/or evidence would be good!
BTW, PLI is very cheap (normally just an add-on to run-of-the-mill business contents/building insurance schemes). Still, as I have a pathological aversion to giving insurance companies MORE money than the fortune I already do I would rather avoid if not absolutely necessary.
PS - this spell checker add-in for IE is fantastic! Long words correctly spelt!
Agreed Dave... we are on the same wavelength you see!
(I agree on the spell checker as well... shame it has American spellings. It also didn't know the word "mortgage".)
Just to clear up the tax thing. You won
I have no receipts... All expenses have so far gone on paypal payments...
The expenses for the F&O game went to Gucci... again without receipts.
I guess I'll have to be more careful from now on?
In the unlikely event that someone sued us for injury then we would sue Phoenix (or whoever we are visiting) with a similar claim! Solicitors will be rubbing their hands! Or suggest that they are more likely to succeed with a claim if they sued Phoenix (or whoever) directly!
Thing is, everyone who plays at a site signs a disclaimer form waiving the site against claims. Fact is they have no legal validity at all (you can't sign away a statutory right) BUT they would be produced as evidence that the claimant has understood the risks of playing at a site and would be used to weaken the claimant's case.
I'm not saying that we don't need PLI and if we did I suspect it would have to be in one person's name (in the absence of a legal status of CiA) which I wouldn't be happy with.
Okay, sounds good Dave. I'm liking what I'm hearing a lot!
It seems to make sense so far.
Yeah... the whole thing about who "us" is, is an interesting one.
I'm just concerned that because I'm the guy who's taken the money that I will be the one who's got the problem...
the other five members of CiA point accusingly at Yith
"It's nothing to do with us - it's HIM you need to sue/tax"
