Vectis Forum

Guy... so you told him to not have it and to please not advertise it on here?

I think that's a bit harsh. Whilst I agree that its probably a silly thing for him to do and unlikely to get much support from anyone I really don't think we should be discouraging him nor should we be locking his threads on the subject.

Especially since he's been so polite about it.

I know its not like we're being as strict as ASCUK, but I really think we shouldn't discourage him at all....

Anyway... what the feck is that post from CharleyNovember on about and why was it removed?

Also, just cos Josh may be involved and that we don't get on with him is not a reason for us to act differently towards this at all. Whilst CiA and PBI may not get on with Josh, the forum itself should remain independent.

CN's post was related to the 'free' forum package Welsh used (being advert financed)

My personal beef was thus:
1. If there was need of other WW2 content why not put it on this forum?
2. If you ask for comments then don't be surprised to find negative ones (eh Evo!)
3. Another forum can only divide, not add
4. a) His forum offered nothing - you had to register to see anything
4. b) This forum has two to three times as many guests as registered visitors, all of whom can see everything (airsoft related) and therefore a true distributor of information
5. I'm deeply distrustful of Josh, he renaged on two deals with CiA, is apparently best pals with Justin and Welsh (both site owners) just as he tried to be with us first time round (for his own benefit)

Having said that, it would have died a death, no doubt about that. Gunman's forum has no WW2 content at all surprisingly, just game booking info.
Given the amount of time the six of us put into the content of this forum it was to be honest a bit of a kick in the balls!

I appreciate your view Rich , just disagree with it .

We are not ASCUK , not bans were made, no links disabled , no threats made. I've posted this up so you can see what was said . As I said in the end.. "you've had your plug" , but I wasn't happy to see him keep re posting just to bump it up to the top . My mobile number is on the bottom of every post I make , I am free and open to any call , try saying that about Beaker & Co ....

Equally we ought to be aware that Josh (and others) have grand designs on "taking over WW2" , ( his words not mine) and whilst I don't have any objections to his commercial operations, any attempt to write us and other Not for Profits out of the equation so that tosser can make money will be met with a similar response.

CN's post was related to the 'free' forum package Welsh used (being advert financed)

My personal beef was thus:
1. If there was need of other WW2 content why not put it on this forum?

No argument there, but also not a reason to discourage and lock a thread

2. If you ask for comments then don't be surprised to find negative ones (eh Evo!)

No argument there, but also not a reason to discourage and lock a thread

3. Another forum can only divide, not add

I disagree... it 100% depends on the attitude the forum owners put forward towards the other forum. If they're friendly and make sure the forum members know it then both forums can exist in harmony. I've been there and done exactly this (twice). IT WORKS. The fact is that if someone wants to set up a forum then there's no way we can stop them and the one sure way to start a feud is to discourage the other side.

4. a) His forum offered nothing - you had to register to see anything

No argument there, but also not a reason to discourage and lock a thread

4. b) This forum has two to three times as many guests as registered visitors, all of whom can see everything (airsoft related) and therefore a true distributor of information

No argument there, but also not a reason to discourage and lock a thread

5. I'm deeply distrustful of Josh, he renaged on two deals with CiA, is apparently best pals with Justin and Welsh (both site owners) just as he tried to be with us first time round (for his own benefit)

No argument there, but also not a reason to discourage and lock a thread

Having said that, it would have died a death, no doubt about that. Gunman's forum has no WW2 content at all surprisingly, just game booking info.
Given the amount of time the six of us put into the content of this forum it was to be honest a bit of a kick in the balls!

Again no argument... and again no reason to lock the thread.

Please unlock the thread.

I appreciate your view Rich , just disagree with it .

We are not ASC UK , not bans were made, no links disabled , no threats made.

No but a thread was locked for a reason that was not fully explained and also premature

I've posted this up so you can see what was said . As I said in the end.. "you've had your plug" , but I wasn't happy to see him keep re posting just to bump it up to the top .

This has not been fully proven. He has had a matter of hours to post on the thread and certainly does not deserve to be declared as a spammer.

As I have said he had been very polite and should be treated the same way.

My mobile number is on the bottom of every post I make , I am free and open to any call , try saying that about Beaker & Co ....

Fair enough... I will accept that.

Equally we ought to be aware that Josh (and others) have grand designs on "taking over WW2" , ( his words not mine) and whilst I don't have any objections to his commercial operations, any attempt to write us and other Not for Profits out of the equation so that tosser can make money will be met with a similar response.

You may be right, you may be wrong. However it is wrong to paranoid.

Oooh, just one disagreement, I'm doing well!

Take two examples - ASCUK was great when it was the central airsoft hub. Regardless of the people who ran it, everything you wanted to know about airsoft was there - kit, sites, games, sales, everything. Now ASCUK, Arnies and a multitude of small independent forums and site run forums have meant that there is no community now.

Ditto WWII forum - everything you could want on there, now you have to look at three to get a full coverage.

True, they were all split because of politics and heavy-handedness but the fact remains, a well run independent central forum for a small niche hobby is the best way for everyone.

Nah... CW when I started in 2003/2004 (or summat) there were 3 forums. UKAN, ASCUK and Arnies.

They all fought against each other and the mods hated each other...

Ok... my examples... the main one was the last alliance "TLA" (LOTR gaming site).

This one I ran with a friend. It was the biggest LOTR game site on the net by a long way and was MUCH bigger than ww2airsoft.org.uk.

There were quite a few other forums about and we got on well with the mods of those. Many were members of TLA. As a result of this the community was friendly and very large. The various users could put in a lot more at all the different sites than they could at just one and there was the extra safety in the system that if one site went down then the others were not affected.

Several sites on the cheaper crapper systems were produced by members and some survived and grew, some vanished cos they were run by a 12 year-old. In the end TLA was and still is the centre of it all! We never discouraged a single site owner (apart from the one that nicked the password info of all the members to his site!!!)

Oh... BTW, I reckon the reason that the WWII forums have had so much problems is because of the rules on the main forum... they're strict and drakonian and have ways for a user to lose all ability to appeal to a decision. They're run very much in a Nazi or lawyery (if you want to be less controversial) style... This winds some members up and is the reason for the extra forums being created.

It is important for us not to fall into this trap... luckily I don't think we have done and I don't think we will, hence we have nothing to fear from other WWII airsoft forums being created...

UKAN was the precurser of ASCUK and ran alongside each other for a while until bowing to the inevitable. Arnies was the split off although alway the lesser forum - ASCUK was the 'hub' and was all the hobby should have needed (were it not for it's owners attitude )

And you said it yourself - the LOTR site was MUCH bigger than ww2airsoft.org.uk. My point exactly - WW2 airsoft is smaller than tiny! No room for two forums.

I do hope Welsh didn't think there was something missing from this forum, and in a way I was somewhat miffed that he should find us lacking.

But meh, this is all by the by now...

I said the LOTR site was bigger... that's all.

ww2 airsoft is growing... We all know that. We can try and keep it all in here and keep control of it, but at the end of the day it will come out of our control.

We always knew it would if we did our jobs right. We want it to... Once it has done we can really start to enjoy ourselves rather than have to do all the work.

If we don't want the scene to die then it has to grow... that means it'll grow up and leave this forum.

Think of it as a kid that's growing up and we're the parents. We can try to influence it all we like, but we mustn't stifle it. Because if we do, the only people who will lose are us.

Already several of us are thinking or have thought about reducing their time spent on ww2 airsoft... We can't let the hobby die when our interest does.

And no CW, there is still chance to unlock that thread...

Only half agree with that - WW2 isn't growing, it's reached saturation point. As players leave, others arrive.

But you are right, the intention always was to encourage others to run games and it's games & players that counts (more forums doesn't mean more WW2 airsofters, just more forum users!) and that is what the forum has provided.

CiA have committed to four more games next year and run a community forum, so no change there.

I can't see a great deal of point unlocking the thread now, just let it die - Welsh has!

Okay... I think my point has been made... But I disagree, WW2 airsoft is definitely still growing.

Leave the thread as is, but please don't lock another one like it so quickly.

Perhaps even pm Welsh to tell him that if he wants the thread re-opened then it will be. I know you've put your number on your sig Guy, but some people hate using phones. I know I do. It wouldn't hurt to be nice.

Happy and Fluffy is what this forum should be...

BTW, has the sale of the metal detector with a VERY tenuous link to ww2 airsoft been left on? Personally I think it should be deleted, but I thought I'd let someone else jump on it!

I left the metal detector for you to deal with (loved the way Steve put an airsoft slant on it!)

okay... okay...

Its deleted...

Sorry mate... this is kind of taking the piss a little isn't it?

Not WW2 related (in any way) so deleted.

Good luck with the sale elsewhere!

I appreciate your view Rich , just disagree with it .

Equally we ought to be aware that Josh (and others) have grand designs on "taking over WW2" , ( his words not mine) and whilst I don't have any objections to his commercial operations, any attempt to write us and other Not for Profits out of the equation so that tosser can make money will be met with a similar response.

You may be right, you may be wrong. However it is wrong to paranoid.

Sorry Rich, i'm going to have to put my boot in here. Josh is truly an underhanded bastard. I know one of the site operators he's tried to screw over by going directly to the landowner in the hope of getting the current operator out, and him in.

Quite simply, I do not trust him.

Oh... I have no doubt about it Jay... I've seen some odd goings on at Matlock... As soon as you "fell out" with that site Josh has jumped right in as Justin's best mate. That could have been avoided if someone had talked to Justin rather than saying it wasn't their problem.

Whether you like it or not he's here to stay and we have to deal with him.

I don't trust him as far as I could throw him... he does rub me up the wrong way.

But this discussion isn't about him, its about alternate forums and how to deal with them. Guy has already said he doesn't think that Welsh's links to Josh have anything to do with the new forum. If you disassociate yourself from this new forum, you better believe that Josh will jump in as its saviour just as he is trying to do at F&O Matlock. It's much better to be friends and partners with it... by all means duck out if Josh takes over but that's less likely to happen if we're friends with 'em.

Luckily we don't have any assets for Josh to try and take off us... and we don't have anything to lose as we do this for fun not profit. That must wind him up something cronic!

I'm loathed to get involved any further with this discussion . At the end of the day I will do what I feel best protects the interests of the CiA forum .

Re Josh ... he told me in March 08 that he had offered F&O the chance to partner up , share players, increase profits.
As he put it ... Gunman would do WW2 in the south , F&O in the North ....no room for us or other people doing it for the love of it , sheer commercials only . He told me this as he was trying to get me to go in with him with my A2C stuff ( which I didn't) .

My point is ... F&O and Joshs cuddling up has nothing to do with our December game , it was in the offing a while ago .

I would appreciate if this was not made common knowledge , I've only mentioned it now as it seems pertinant to the discussion .

Guy, its important to have conversations and I hope that you continue to do so. This forum is not moderated by just one person and hence discussions on important subjects are a necessity.

In fact we have far too few discussions in this part of the forum... Its certainly months since anything really substantial was discussed in a serious manner!

Thank you for sharing the info on Josh and F&O, it does enlighten somewhat... I do think he's on to a loser there though. F&O neither have the expertise, the will, the sites, nor the player base to do what he suggests.

Heh... I think we came to the conclusion a long time ago that the WW2 player base is so spread out that its not something that can be organised properly by site owners due to various reasons... the small profit being just one of them.

Yeah sorry Rich , just so you're aware ..

I speak to David and Jay on a daily basis over the phone (Stephen less so because of the nature of his work) ... stuff gets decided , discussed , debated in a way that is quicker and leaves less room for misunderstanding than posting . It may appear that decisions happen randomly , and often they do , but most likley there has been some conferring behind the desk . No of us act in an indepenadnt manner that would piss off the others.

The stuff with F&O and Josh wasn't bandied around as it didn't look like anything would come of it , and i don't do shit stiring unless it's really neccessary . We are concious that Josh has a "them and us" mentality ...we don't want to loose people as a result of his attitude .

Hey ho ...onwards and sidewards ...

Yup... fair enough on all counts... but please note that there are more than just the three of you helping to run this forum and we'd all like to hear stuff...

I also can't take phone calls at all times as I do sit in a very quiet office with my boss directly behind me.