David
can you post a link to the site for Sunday mate?
Fecking hell, already have - read all the posts in RED!
can't grabby the links .........are you coming up the M1 ? Could meet up at junction XXXX
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=sheepbridge+lane+chesterfield&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=23.246083,67.675781&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=16&iwloc=addr
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCC&cp=swb5jwgwcjkb&style=b&lvl=2&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=11722684&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1
Sheepbridge Lane
Chesterfield
S41
Directions To Site:
From Jt. 29 of M1 Follow the A617 into Chesterfield. Follow the A617 until you come to a large roundabout. Turn right at the roundabout on the A61 towards Sheffield. Stay on the A61 for about 5 miles passing over two more large roundabouts. Approx 1mile after the second roundabout on the A61 there is a slip round sign posted Dronfield. Take this slip road.
Turn left off the slip road and then left again down Sheepbridge Lane. Continue down this road for about 1/2 a mile and the Urban Site is on the right through some large blue gate. If you pass a snap cabin on your left you have gone to far.
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That would be a hell of a detour for you - the site is North Chesterfield - you would come off J33 or 34 of M1 and drop down past Sheffield surely? If I use the M1 at all it would be one stop up to J29.
If you can't get map on internet I'll send a JPEG...
cheers will have another look 2 morrow!
Speeling of Pheonix (sic) corrected!
Meh, I left it for you Stephen - since you corrected all my Aerial posts (even though I couldn't see any changes) 
save haven......changed to safe haven.
Guy - could you bring my Uniden radio with you please?
already bunged it in the car 
Reply from Grogan:
Hi Choms. it will cost £1500 for all day sunday... or you can use the urban on a saturday and pay per person £30 each. due to the how good the urban is it would not be beneficial to offer a sunday less than £1500 due to what we can take ourselves on a sunady. its Down to you. Dave
Sunday game, 20 players a side = cost £1500 or £37.50 per head.
A game fee of:
£40 will cover paypal costs but no more
£45 will give £200 for props/pyro.
Sunday game, 15 players a side = cost £1500 or £50 per head.
A game fee of:
£55 will cover paypal costs but not much no more
£60 will give £225 for props/pyro.
Sunday game, 25 players a side = cost £1500 or £30 per head.
A game fee of:
£35 will cover paypal costs plus £125 props/pyro
£40 will give £375 for props/pyro.
£45 will give £625 for props/pyro
Saturday game, 20 players a side @ £30/head
A game fee of:
£40 will cover paypal plus roughly £300 for props/pyro
£45 will give £500 for props/pyro
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Looking at it the other way, I don't think we can charge more than £45.
If Sunday costs £1500 flat fee and we charge £45 then taking into account Paypal costs then our break even player number is 35 players.
Each additional player netts us £43 thus:
40 players = £215
44 players = £387
48 players = £550
So, the question is can we be confident to get 40 paying punters on the Sunday? (which will give a basic contribution to costs). If so would it be OK to up the player limit to 25 a side to give a more financially useful game? Note that the 75 punters there today were easily swallowed - if I had to guess I'd have said it was 20 a side on the site visit today!
If we go for Saturday then the 40 players will give £530 profit after paypal. Since he is basically looking at £1200 for Saturday then there is the option of having a 17-a-side game and still have a usable props/pyro budget of £270.
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Things to bear in mind: July game is low numbers/low profit and the E&E game is low numbers/low profit. These two games might easily swallow any reserves we have at the moment leaving us with nothing in the kitty by December.
It's a hell of a schlep for the southerners so a Saturday game might be a PITA, plus we'd need to book a day off to set up on the Friday and I'm not confident I'll have enough holiday left to do that.
It's a good site, but £1500 is pretty steep, but I think more will book for the Sunday.
Props-wise I don't think we'll need much. Drop canisters could be used for Russians with ammo crates for Germans but the site has enough features without the need for dressing. Perhaps just printing charges.
Once we have forty booked players for Glocke that'll leave £694 in the kitty.
I say go for £45 and book up to 40 players each side with the expectation of getting between 25-30 each side.
Date-wise it's really only feasible to do it on December 5th/6th.
Grogan ..."Josh II" thats gone up £300 since last time . I thought he was a mate of yours !
Can't charge more than £40 for a day game ...Saturday will limit numbers ....we need to have a think on this one I reckon . Talk tommorrow
Sites good , but smaller than the one we paid 1200 for .
It's a hell of a schlep for the southerners so a Saturday game might be a PITA, plus we'd need to book a day off to set up on the Friday and I'm not confident I'll have enough holiday left to do that.
It's a good site, but £1500 is pretty steep, but I think more will book for the Sunday.
Props-wise I don't think we'll need much. Drop canisters could be used for Russians with ammo crates for Germans but the site has enough features without the need for dressing. Perhaps just printing charges.
Once we have forty booked players for Glocke that'll leave £694 in the kitty.
I say go for £45 and book up to 40 players each side with the expectation of getting between 25-30 each side.
Date-wise it's really only feasible to do it on December 5th/6th.
45 for a day game is a pisstake IMHO ..and can't do that weekend either .I'm loathed to spend our funds just to make a site owner richer ....also he's getting 75 on it's second outing ...after a year would he stil get that many ? CW?
Pics:
Arnhem was £40 as I recall - our competitor charges more than double that. People will pay for a game they want to go to and they will come to ours, indeed they are waiting to come. I think the concept of cheap games doesn't sit at all well with the quality of games and the effort put into games. It's not as though we are ripping players off - they get ALL the money back, every penny.
Urban sites are expensive - we know how much Longmore or Catterick is. Here is a convenient location (to organisers) and fits the scenario well.
We could (and will) negotiate on price but it won't make any meaningful impact on the figures, my numbers are still valid. You are right, Grogan is basing figures on present attendance - there were 75 there today paying £25 so he grossed £1875 plus hires and shop sales so a total of over two grand. He is running the urban site every week at the moment but I'm sure that will drop to every other weekend as time goes on.
BTW, we are not spending OUR money to make a site owner rich - we are using the site owner to provide us with a site so that other people will spend their money with him. We couldn't possibly organise a site like that ourselves - it's us using him, not vice versa. Flawed argument there Guy!
Some price comparisons (I wish everyone was still on ASCUK - it would be much easier to find out whats going on currently!!):
Phoenix open days are £20 woodland open day, £25 CQB open day, £25 Urban open day. Cerberous £25 woodland open day. Our July game woodland £30 and UCAP £35. Gunman 24hrs £75 woodland. Pocket £30 day woodland. Husky £45 woodland weekender. Mist £30 single day event. Haggard - £50 days play woodland. Taffy's game £45 weekender woodland. A2C1 £65 woodland weekender! Fireball weekender £65 woodland. Stirling @ Catterick, £80 24hrs. Stirling @ woodland £55 day. Stirling @ Catterick £60 day. Urban Assault £25 open day.
Maybe discuss directly with the membership.....although that might be a bad idea.
Thing is, if we don't get the bookings we'll have to cancel and Grogan can just have a normal open day.
I think we do need to remind Grogan that he's not going to have to pay any marshalls or provide any food or support.
I'd say we should negotiate to £1200 as our target....
S
Don't appreciate being patronised there ...if we take our surplus from previous games and give it to a site owner to subsidise his profit expectations then we are paying to make him richer ....no flaw in my argument there ...just how you choose to veiw it .
Anyway ...the site is good, worth having , Grogan has costs to cover , he expects to make the same as he would on an open day which is fair enough as he's only doing airsoft to make a living from it not for the love of it ...same as all the other siteowners barring a few .
I tend to agree with Headshot , suggest try to re negotiate for a lower figure ...we are non profit making ....it would be nice for him to cut us some slack and if we do it on a Saturday he'll be earning twice in a weekend instead of once...plus we'll get it in AI etc etc .
Appreciate your comments about market prices, and urban vs woodland but frankly don't care..we're in a niche of one and don't like to charge excessively...we are not in competition with Josh or Ian Warmerling...we are better than that . IMHO £40 still top whack for a day game in my book . I worry that our games are getting more and more expensive, it runs the risk of being percieved as excessive even though as an insider I know why .
Patronising - you just don't read what I write! I was suggesting we don't use our reserves for this game Guy! I pointed out we won't have any cash from Aerial or the E&E and if we don't charge enough for the December game we will have to use reserves - not that I was suggesting we do, just a statement of fact.
Stephen - yes, a bad idea to discuss with membership. If asked I'd say 'cheap please', not 'more expensive'. However, if I am presented with a game I can book or not book - that's what we have always done.
Of course we can negotiate, but it doesn't make a great deal of difference - we either have higher player numbers and lower price or vice versa, it's an expensive game to run That was the whole point of my costing illustrations. Do you compromise game tension for the sake of saving a fiver. As a punter I'd prefer a 'better' game that a £30 rabble game.
Oh, and I'm with you on the 'rip off' thing and for Grogan it's easy money - money on a plate in fact. But this is just the opening stage - I asked a price and he gave one - do you think I'm going to spend the rest of the day negotiating a best deal? It's just hours since we left site - this is incredibly fast, we still haven't begun to sort the E&E for christ sake!
Cool, lets see what Grogan suggests price-wise then.
If we paid £1200 last time, we can't really expect him to charge us less.....or even equal with the current overheads TBH.