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Sgt.Heide
(@sgt-heide)
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After the success of the Tanaka K98 at both Bryansk and Husky, I thought I'd start a seperate thread for the discussion of these, plus VSR/BAR10 conversions plus the Dboys rifles, their performance and how to upgrade and get the best from them. PLEASE try to stay on topic here guys! :good: Any tips, questions, links or photos, this is the place to put them.

For those of you who don't know, I'm an ex army sniper as well. So, if you want to discuss sniper tactics or have any questions, post here as well.

I'll start the ball rolling by listing my rifles with their respective upgrades.

Rifle 1 - Tanaka K98 (export version). Fitted with BGS hop set. Chronoed at Husky at an average of 475fps with 134a gas and .2g bb's. Only a 7fps variation! Got some excellent kills with it too. Soon to be fitted with a KM 6.03 tightbore as well.

Rifle 2 - MP001 springer conversion. Using a real K98 stock.Fitted with PSS10 reinforced sears, teflon modified hop and an APS2 3 element piston. Chucks out 430fps.

Rifle 3 - JG BAR10 springer conversion. Another "real stock" rifle. Fitted with PSS10 sears, PSS10 spring guide, PSS130 spring, Nineball hop rubber, PSS10 piston, PSS10 spring stopper, PSS10 cylinder head and a PDI 6.01 barrel. Should knock out about 450fps (to be confirmed).

Also working on an MP001 base Enfield No4!



When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!

 
Posted : 03/09/2008 10:12 pm
Boshman
(@boshman)
Posts: 2213
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Thats ironic mate, I just logged on whilst im sat here waiting for the epoxy resin to dry on the rear-sight of my second K98 springer conversion! :lol:

This one is using a real Kar98k laminated stock with 37 dated and waffenampt'd parts. trigger guard is a late war "stamped" model. The donor gun for this one is a Maruzen APS2 EX which, since I have converted to 100% WWII airsofting, has been sat in the corner gathering dust. It has PSS2 Teflon cylinder, PSS2 piston, PSS2 Aero chamber and 6.03 TN barrel. last time I useed it it chrono'd at 495fps :twisted:

The APS internals are a lot heavier than the VSR ones so this has a lovely weighty feel to it, similar feel to one of Warrens No4's infact.

Some things were easier with the APS2 compared to the VSR and some things were harder. Reciever needed a lot more working to make it look "right" but amazingly the APS2 receiver screws line up exactly with the K98 trigger guard screw hole :shock: Bonus!

I used a piece of 16mm steel tube for the barrel with the end turned down to 15mm to accept the foresight. Also added a brass bush in the barrel end to make it look right. its turned out great, I'm tempted to have a go at cold Bluing it instead of painting it too!

Heres a couple of pics to whet your appetites :D
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“I wanted to come to the Volga at a specific location at a specific city. By chance it carries the name of Stalin himself. So don’t think I marched there for this reason – it could carry another name – but because there is a very important goal... this goal I wanted to take – and you know – we are very modest, we have it already."
Adolf Hitler, November 1942

"Comrades, Red Army men, commanders and political workers, men and women guerrillas! It is on your perseverance, staunchness, fighting skill and readiness to discharge your duty to the country that the defeat of the German-fascist army and the liberation of the Soviet land from the Hitlerite invaders depend! We can and must clear the Soviet land of Hitlerite vermin."
Joseph Stalin, November 1942

 
Posted : 03/09/2008 10:54 pm
Boshman
(@boshman)
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I made an interesting observation whilst comparing my two K98's: :?
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Whilst the but plates are near identical, the ends on the stocks are completely different angles :shock: The top one is a Marushin stock, the lower is real steel. Did Marushin just get it wrong I wonder or was there a lot of variations :?

“I wanted to come to the Volga at a specific location at a specific city. By chance it carries the name of Stalin himself. So don’t think I marched there for this reason – it could carry another name – but because there is a very important goal... this goal I wanted to take – and you know – we are very modest, we have it already."
Adolf Hitler, November 1942

"Comrades, Red Army men, commanders and political workers, men and women guerrillas! It is on your perseverance, staunchness, fighting skill and readiness to discharge your duty to the country that the defeat of the German-fascist army and the liberation of the Soviet land from the Hitlerite invaders depend! We can and must clear the Soviet land of Hitlerite vermin."
Joseph Stalin, November 1942

 
Posted : 04/09/2008 9:35 pm
Sgt.Heide
(@sgt-heide)
Posts: 5882
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Interesting. I'll have to compare my real K98 stocks against the Tanaka now!



When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!

 
Posted : 04/09/2008 9:48 pm
Boshman
(@boshman)
Posts: 2213
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Haha! There are a few other small dimensional variations aswell but i guess thats to be expected with an Airsoft replica.

I have to say, I very happy with how my rear sight has turned out. I managed to get the edges feathered down really well, I simple took the off-cut of the APS2 outer barrel, wrapped and taped some course wet n dry around it, clamped it in the bench and then rubbed the rear-sight along it (A lot) till it had the same profile. I actually had to put leather gloves on to do it as the steel was getting so hot it was buring my fingers! :lol: By the time I had finished the edges were like a knife blade and i did actually cut my finger on it :shock: :slap: Anyway, just needs painting now, hopefully it should look like its all one part then.
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“I wanted to come to the Volga at a specific location at a specific city. By chance it carries the name of Stalin himself. So don’t think I marched there for this reason – it could carry another name – but because there is a very important goal... this goal I wanted to take – and you know – we are very modest, we have it already."
Adolf Hitler, November 1942

"Comrades, Red Army men, commanders and political workers, men and women guerrillas! It is on your perseverance, staunchness, fighting skill and readiness to discharge your duty to the country that the defeat of the German-fascist army and the liberation of the Soviet land from the Hitlerite invaders depend! We can and must clear the Soviet land of Hitlerite vermin."
Joseph Stalin, November 1942

 
Posted : 04/09/2008 10:11 pm
Sgt.Heide
(@sgt-heide)
Posts: 5882
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That looks great Boshman. I've fitted all of the parts that I ordered to my BAR 10 and they work really well together. The cylinder to piston seal is very good. The PSS 150 spring is a bit stiff but I know it will bed in over time. I took the plunge last night and ordered a PDI 6.01 barrel (bloody expensive!). Once that's arrived and I get it fitted, I'm off to zero the scope and do some grouping and velocity tests with different ammo types. I'm hoping for good accuracy and consistency.

I have to say, I tried the airsoft sniping thing in the past but it was a bit naff in a hicap world at the sites I played at. I think WW2 airsoft, with its' relatively high proportion of bolt actions, along with its' ammo limits, is an ideal environment to get back into it. I had a lot of fun at Husky and I plan on sniping at more games in the future. :twisted:



When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!

 
Posted : 13/09/2008 10:24 am
Boshman
(@boshman)
Posts: 2213
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Just finished cold bluing the outer barrel on the k98. :D I must say I rather pleased with the finish although it took a few attempts to get the right technique and get a nice blue-black colour. I found that sometimes, additional applications had a negative effect and actually lightened the colour instead of darkening it :?
-- attachment is not available --

“I wanted to come to the Volga at a specific location at a specific city. By chance it carries the name of Stalin himself. So don’t think I marched there for this reason – it could carry another name – but because there is a very important goal... this goal I wanted to take – and you know – we are very modest, we have it already."
Adolf Hitler, November 1942

"Comrades, Red Army men, commanders and political workers, men and women guerrillas! It is on your perseverance, staunchness, fighting skill and readiness to discharge your duty to the country that the defeat of the German-fascist army and the liberation of the Soviet land from the Hitlerite invaders depend! We can and must clear the Soviet land of Hitlerite vermin."
Joseph Stalin, November 1942

 
Posted : 19/09/2008 12:03 am
Sgt.Heide
(@sgt-heide)
Posts: 5882
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That looks fantastic. What I like about your K98's is that they aren't just springer conversions but like a 1/1 scale model as well, your detail work is really good.

Today I fitted a PDI 6.01 barrel with a nineball airseal hop rubber to my BAR 10 conversion. I also downgraded the spring from a PSS150 to a PSS130. There are a couple of reasons for this, mainly because the bolt pull was pretty stiff and, being left handed, I have to change hands just to cock the gun. Secondly, I think the combination of parts I used took the gun to over 500fps with the 150 spring. I've seen people get very good results running VSR10/BAR10's at about 430 fps and I know it will be very accurate once the hop has bedded in anyway, so high fps isn't the be all and end all.



When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!

 
Posted : 22/09/2008 12:14 pm
Boshman
(@boshman)
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Thanks for the compliment Pete, coming from you that is praise indeed :) I am a bit anal when it comes to detail and always try to get things as acurate as I possibly can. Wish I had a lathe and mill at my disposal, so they could be even more acurate.

Going back to your upgrades, I did wonder if a 150 spring would make your VSR over-powered. The VSR's have such a good air-seal, especially with the nine-ball hop, that they dont need a really heavy spring to get the power. Mine runs 475fps with the stock JG BAR-10 spring, a 15mm spring spacer, PSS10 bearing spring guide and a ninball hop. a 130 spring is probably going to get you very close to 500fps and you can get PSS10 spring spacers to fine-tune the power.

My APS2 has a PSS2 150 spring, its about 3 years old now and is still just as hard to cock as it ever was, so they dont tend to get easier with age.

Really interesting to read you are also a south-paw as I am too. did that cause you any probs during you army days as a sniper?

“I wanted to come to the Volga at a specific location at a specific city. By chance it carries the name of Stalin himself. So don’t think I marched there for this reason – it could carry another name – but because there is a very important goal... this goal I wanted to take – and you know – we are very modest, we have it already."
Adolf Hitler, November 1942

"Comrades, Red Army men, commanders and political workers, men and women guerrillas! It is on your perseverance, staunchness, fighting skill and readiness to discharge your duty to the country that the defeat of the German-fascist army and the liberation of the Soviet land from the Hitlerite invaders depend! We can and must clear the Soviet land of Hitlerite vermin."
Joseph Stalin, November 1942

 
Posted : 22/09/2008 2:14 pm
Sgt.Heide
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Posts: 5882
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Believe it or not, no it didn't really. I remember one of my instructors was a Royal Marine sniper. One day, on the range, he said to me "Your grouping is going to be wank, because you break position to work the bolt" and I thought "Oh shit, I'm going to get binned off the course here". Anyway, after firing two 5 round groups with scopes and the open sights, prone at 100 metres, we went to the targets and my grouping with the scope was 13mm and my grouping with iron sights was 11mm! Neither he nor I could believe it, as I had "keyholed" most of the rounds. He said to me, "Well, I suppose you only really need one round to be an effective sniper". Typical squaddie understatement on his behalf but I was over the moon about it and I took it as a high compliment, coming from a bloke who was a sniper in the Falklands war! I won the "best shot" trophy as well, so I suppose being a lefty isn't all bad.

Mind you, they made do all of the weapon drills right handed on the handling tests, now that was a bitch!



When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!

 
Posted : 22/09/2008 2:54 pm
(@scaleyback)
Posts: 3578
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"praise from caerser is praise indeed " as shakespeare put it. i was once told i could shoot. this was from a bloke who tought it as bisley...... doesnt it make you smile :rofl: :rofl:

 
Posted : 22/09/2008 3:00 pm
JD7
 JD7
(@jd7)
Posts: 6310
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I'm a 'south-paw' also, been to Bisley and earned my RAF Marksman badge along the way. I went onto being a full bore shooting instructor for the North East Scotland ATC Wing.

Teaching under 18's to safely fire 5.56 and 7.62 - lol and look at me now !! 6mm plastic bb's haha

 
Posted : 22/09/2008 3:11 pm
Boshman
(@boshman)
Posts: 2213
Noble Member
 

Mind you, they made do all of the weapon drills right handed on the handling tests, now that was a bitch!

Yeah I bet it was! Am I right in thinking you can only shoot a SA80 right handed? I remember shooting my mates Berretta A303 semi-auto shotgun years back which was fun having the empty catridges whizz past your face :lol:

I'm a 'south-paw' also, been to Bisley and earned my RAF Marksman badge along the way. I went onto being a full bore shooting instructor for the North East Scotland ATC Wing.

Teaching under 18's to safely fire 5.56 and 7.62 - lol and look at me now !! 6mm plastic bb's haha

Haha,Del is devolving, in another 5 years it''ll be spud-guns :rofl:

Going off-topic a bit here but actually, I didn't realise how many of us "Special" (NO not special needs :wink: ) people there were on here. This begs the question of how do you wear your german field kit? specifically Pistol holster, e-tool/bayonet(if/when worn), breadbag etc? I have tended to always wear it in standard right handed setup, but have seen quite a few period photos recently with left handed setup or at least pistols worn on right side.
The problem with the pistols holsters is they dont really work well for a lefty whichever side you wear it. Personally I am ambi-dextros to a point so tend to draw my pistol with my right hand and I can snap-shoot well enough with my right. I then pass it to my left for aimed shots.

“I wanted to come to the Volga at a specific location at a specific city. By chance it carries the name of Stalin himself. So don’t think I marched there for this reason – it could carry another name – but because there is a very important goal... this goal I wanted to take – and you know – we are very modest, we have it already."
Adolf Hitler, November 1942

"Comrades, Red Army men, commanders and political workers, men and women guerrillas! It is on your perseverance, staunchness, fighting skill and readiness to discharge your duty to the country that the defeat of the German-fascist army and the liberation of the Soviet land from the Hitlerite invaders depend! We can and must clear the Soviet land of Hitlerite vermin."
Joseph Stalin, November 1942

 
Posted : 22/09/2008 4:08 pm
Sgt.Heide
(@sgt-heide)
Posts: 5882
Illustrious Member
Topic starter
 

I hated the SA80 to be honest (for a few reasons), I much preferred my SLR but they wouldn't let me keep it. I was just glad when I made the grade as a sniper and only had to fire SA80 for my annual test. Our sniper section was pretty much left to its' own devices, so I could finally shoot the way that I wanted to.

I was trained to shoot "normal" weapons ambidextrously anyway and have practiced that skill ever since, with real steel, pro paintball and airsoft. I actually fire a pistol with both eyes open, so it doesn't matter which hand it's in and I'm a pretty good snapshooter (I'll tell you why at a 'social' sometime). Like you say, it's getting the bloody thing out of its' holster that's the main problem with German kit! I wear my Luger on my left side and have practiced drawing it with my left hand to a point where I'm reasonably proficient.

Edit - To save adding another post, I thought I'd just mention that I've just purchased a wide variety of bb's to test in the springer and in the Tanaka. I'll wait for a clear day and do some thorough testing and report back with my findings. I plan on testing all of these:-

Tanaka with pure propane, green gas, predator gas and 134a gas.
Springer with PSS130 and PSS150 spring.

I'll carry out grouping tests at 20m and 30m and maximum range tests on a torso sized target, using the following ammo (it'll be a busy day!). Whichever of my K98's comes out on top will become my official sniper rifle, as I am looking for accuracy at medium to long range.

Straight .43g
Straight .36g
Straight .30g
Blaster .30g
G&P SIIS .33g
G&P SIIS .28g
Maruzen SGM .29g

Edit 10/10/08 - I put a lot of rounds through the springer today. Got a mixed bag of results really. Unfortunately I couldn't zero the scope properly because the rifle stopped working! I've taken it apart and discovered that one of the trigger housing screws has come loose, so, out with the threadlock on that. The grouping tests were quite interesting though, I fired from 30m, prone supported position for all bb weights and used the same type of target and exactly the same point of aim for each shot. Interestingly, I got the odd "flyer" with every bb type. I had to reset the hop for each bb weight as well, obviously. The average (10 round) groupings were.

Blaster .3g So bad that I can't be arsed to measure!
SIIS .3g 20cm
SIIS .33g 18cm
Maruzen SGM .29g 14cm
Straight .36g 10cm
Straight .43g Again, so crap I didn't bother.

I eliminated the crap groups, cleaned the barrel and had a smoke, then tried again with the SIIS .33, the straight .36 and the SGM's, I fared a bit better this time, with less flyers but the wind picked up. The rifle packed up before I could complete the test with the .29''s

Best groupings achieved were

SIIS .33g 55mm (I was impressed by this because they are by far the cheapest bb on trial).
Straight .36g 52mm
SGM .29 42mm (This was only 5 rounds, as opposed to the 10 with the other bb's).

As you can see, I did a fair bit of shooting, though not as much as I wanted to. Next time, the Tanaka is getting a good going over as well and, judging by results I got with the .43's in the springer (with a really expensive barrel!), I'll be looking to use .36 and 134a in the Tanaka. for best results.



When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!

 
Posted : 22/09/2008 4:32 pm
jay851
(@jay851)
Posts: 1286
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great thread guys and very helpful.
nearly finished my no4 and looking to do a bar10 kar98 next for my fj impression.
just wondered if you guys could link me up with places to get the stock and all the metalwork needed to get the project underway.

cheers
jay




 
Posted : 11/10/2008 4:30 pm
Sgt.Heide
(@sgt-heide)
Posts: 5882
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Topic starter
 

Chelmsford militaria used to do a K98 stock, with bands for 70 quid or so but, since I linked to them on the K98 springer projects thread, they don't seem to have them anymore! Keep your eyes on Ebay, there are some bargains to be had if you're patient.

To be honest, if I did another K98 conversion, I think I'd just get a wood stocked Dboys one and cannibalise it, because it's got all of the parts needed, apart from the stock itself, you have sights, bolt handle, etc. Potentially cheaper than sourcing all of the parts seperately as well (you can get one from RSOV for £100 and even with potential import duty, it's still cheap).



When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!

 
Posted : 11/10/2008 4:53 pm
jay851
(@jay851)
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yes i agree, i have had hassle in the past trying to source real steel parts so have just ordered a wood stock dboys kar 98 from gunner airsoft. just got to find myself a doner gun now. hoe does the aps2 hold up against the vsr/bar10?




 
Posted : 12/10/2008 7:34 am
Sgt.Heide
(@sgt-heide)
Posts: 5882
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Topic starter
 

The APS2 is a proven, high quality airsoft sniper rifle. However, so is the VSR10 now as well. I'd go with the JG BAR 10, as it's a great little gun, 100% VSR compatible and dirt cheap to boot. You can get it up to 450fps + with very little outlay, or you can shell out on the Laylax parts if you want to go the whole hog. Upgrades are more readily available for the VSR/BAR as well I've found. I've tricked out my BAR 10 with top of the line upgrades and it hasn't cost much more in total than buying a standard APS2 rifle.



When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!

 
Posted : 12/10/2008 11:47 am
jay851
(@jay851)
Posts: 1286
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cheers pete. will go with the bar-10, have found them quite cheap at landworriorairsoft.com but waiting for a response as to whether they recognise AFRA.
would the g-spec be better,not sure on the differences apart from silencer.

jay




 
Posted : 12/10/2008 12:23 pm
Sgt.Heide
(@sgt-heide)
Posts: 5882
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The G-Spec has a shorter barrel than the"standard" one and the bolt handle is different (also has less travel to cock the gun), there are some other minor differences as well. You're better off with the longer version, because you won't have to buy a new barrel for the K98 conversion.

Edit - As an added bonus, MP001 magazines will work on the BAR 10 (although, funnily, not vice versa!).



When I want your opinion - I'll tell you what it is!

 
Posted : 12/10/2008 6:30 pm
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