SS Camo Tunic quest...
 
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SS Camo Tunic question

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rifleman6925
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This topic may have been covered previously, however, if not my question is this. There seems to be a plethora of different types of SS camo tunics out there. I know the 'pea dot' tunic was produced later in the war and many types of camo smock. Were tunics made from other SS camo, for example 'oak leaf' or were these privately tailored by the troops themselves or just modern day fantasies by sellers to try and part us with our hard earned cash?

 
Posted : 31/05/2015 12:08 pm
Steiner
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The only issued tunic was the pea dot, which was actually worn over Feldgrau wools. Whilst you might find the odd photo of other camo tunics, they were privately-made and rare - and as you rightly summise, are a good opportunity for modern sellers to sell to the gullible!


You've got nothing to ein, zwei, drei, vier

 
Posted : 31/05/2015 5:03 pm
rifleman6925
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I thought as much Andy, cheers for the confirmation. What camo trousers are a good mix to use with a HBT Fieldgrau Tunic. I know 'pea dot' were used but what other camo was available and used? Was 'Italian' camo trousers used by the SS and any other types?

The reason I am asking is that I cannot wear wool, cheers :good:

 
Posted : 31/05/2015 5:24 pm
Steiner
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Hey Anthony, if you wanted to wear camo ones, I would definitely go for pea dot. Italian was worn a bit, but is really overdone in the re-enactment world, by people trying to be different. :ghey: Or, you could simply wear the green HBT trousers. :good:


You've got nothing to ein, zwei, drei, vier

 
Posted : 31/05/2015 7:14 pm
rifleman6925
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Hey Anthony, if you wanted to wear camo ones, I would definitely go for pea dot. Italian was worn a bit, but is really overdone in the re-enactment world, by people trying to be different. :ghey: Or, you could simply wear the green HBT trousers. :good:

Yeah mate, I get your point and the 'pea dot' mix does look the part. I only ask as Ian is selling 'Italian camo' trousers rather cheaply :whistle:

 
Posted : 31/05/2015 7:39 pm
(@coatimundi)
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Actually, old stocks of oak leaf were put to use making tunics and trousers after the production of smocks ceased;

"When the camouflage drill uniform was introduced, the manufacture of pullover type smocks was discontinued. Consequently, stockpiles of preprinted HBT camouflage material intended for smocks was rendered available. Though the material was the same, the printed patterns reflected the earlier styles in use such as Oak Leaf and Blurred Edge. Because smocks were reversible, the fabric was double printed. Drill uniforms manufactured from this cloth were assembled to present the brown autumn colors on the exterior. However, a few isolated incidents exist of the summer green side being the exterior print. The initial deliveries of the drill uniform in the spring of 1944 showed slight differences from those received later...these jackets were initially supplied with loops for shoulder straps and attached sleeve eagle. The loops are an interesting feauture considering that the use of shoulder straps was forbidden. In order to standarize the uniform, this derictive was again repeated in July 1944. The order expressly forbade the wearing of shoulder straps on uniforms made from camouflage drill material. It is likely that original production order instructed manufacturers to produce the drill uniform in identical fashion with the wool M-43 field-gray counterpart. This accounts not only for loops, but also the attached neck buttons for collar liners. Both feautures were eliminated on later models. By mid-1944 the practice of the factory applied sleeve eagles was discontinued. " - Michael Beaver; Camouflage uniforms of the Waffen SS

I've heard of these uniforms being made in M44 (as in the same cut as the pea dot tunics), M43 wool, M43 hbt cut, and the trousers in M37 and M42 Kielhosen cut, as well as in the same cut as the pea dot trousers. It gets a bit confusing. Almost all of them were made with the brown autumn side out, a few were done with blurred edge fabric. All of these oak leaf uniforms were pretty rare and iirc only started being issued around mid 1944.

 
Posted : 31/05/2015 10:28 pm
Steiner
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Interesting, and a good find. :good: Actually, I have that book somewhere - I'd better read it! :roll:

But as you say (lack of) photographic evidence confirms their rarity.


You've got nothing to ein, zwei, drei, vier

 
Posted : 01/06/2015 7:34 am
rifleman6925
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So in effect it would be ok to wear an Oakleaf Autumn tunic and trousers for later themed games and any that are not that specific given that the Pea Dot was again a later issued item also. As stated even though rare they seem to have existed. I do like the Pea Dot but also the Autumn Oakleaf looks good too, given that you can get a new set for £65 is very tempting. Obviously I would prefer to be correct in my assumptions prior to spending my dosh :D

Any further info will be very much appreciated :good:

 
Posted : 01/06/2015 11:35 am
MartinR
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wrt the Italian camo, iirc the main users were 12th SS HJ, and even then they had an awful lot of peadot too.

As Andy said, if you just want a pair of plain non-wool trousers, then HBTs would work fine, but for camo outfits there are range of options.

You doing SS as well as Heer then Tony? I've stil got your old smock, zelt and helmet cover!

Cheers
Martin

"Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" Helmuth von Moltke
Toys: AGM MP40, Cyma M1A1, TM M14/G43/SVT40, TM VSR/K98, SnS No. 4, ASG Sten, Ppsh.
Arnhem3,Gumrak,Campoleone

 
Posted : 01/06/2015 12:02 pm
rifleman6925
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wrt the Italian camo, iirc the main users were 12th SS HJ, and even then they had an awful lot of peadot too.

As Andy said, if you just want a pair of plain non-wool trousers, then HBTs would work fine, but for camo outfits there are range of options.

You doing SS as well as Heer then Tony? I've stil got your old smock, zelt and helmet cover!

Cheers
Martin

Yes mate, I am thinking about having a couple of impressions I can use. The missus may have a go :slap: and I may employ her as a medic :giggle: so the extra uniform would come in handy. Just figured a camo outfit would be the cheaper option as no need to badge it up etc

 
Posted : 01/06/2015 5:18 pm
Steiner
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So in effect it would be ok to wear an Oakleaf Autumn tunic and trousers for later themed games and any that are not that specific given that the Pea Dot was again a later issued item also. As stated even though rare they seem to have existed. I do like the Pea Dot but also the Autumn Oakleaf looks good too, given that you can get a new set for £65 is very tempting. Obviously I would prefer to be correct in my assumptions prior to spending my dosh :D

Any further info will be very much appreciated :good:

Yes, given the info provided by Coatimundi, then they obviously existed. Oakleaf is an awesome camo, too. :)


You've got nothing to ein, zwei, drei, vier

 
Posted : 01/06/2015 6:23 pm
rifleman6925
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So in effect it would be ok to wear an Oakleaf Autumn tunic and trousers for later themed games and any that are not that specific given that the Pea Dot was again a later issued item also. As stated even though rare they seem to have existed. I do like the Pea Dot but also the Autumn Oakleaf looks good too, given that you can get a new set for £65 is very tempting. Obviously I would prefer to be correct in my assumptions prior to spending my dosh :D

Any further info will be very much appreciated :good:

Yes, given the info provided by Coatimundi, then they obviously existed. Oakleaf is an awesome camo, too. :)

I agree Andy it is a fab camo, I have looked around and apart from Spearhead who have a plethora of different camo tunics the other suppliers only seem to do the Oakleaf tunic in Autumn colouration which would kind of confirm what Coatimundi has said. Obviously they also do Pea Dot and Italian camo but only the one type of Oakleaf.

Given the info from Coatimundi the only insignia needed would be camo rank and maybe a sleeve eagle which would cut down on costs.

 
Posted : 01/06/2015 6:46 pm
Steiner
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I wouldn't bother with the sleeve eagle, myself.


You've got nothing to ein, zwei, drei, vier

 
Posted : 02/06/2015 5:03 pm
rifleman6925
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I wouldn't bother with the sleeve eagle, myself.

Ok then, even cheaper :happyclap:

 
Posted : 02/06/2015 5:31 pm
MartinR
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Yes, they weren't supposed to put sleeve eagles on camo smocks & tunics (although some of soldiers did, because it looked cool :) ). Camo rank insignia were even rarer.

Cheers
Martin

"Mistakes in the initial deployment cannot be rectified" Helmuth von Moltke
Toys: AGM MP40, Cyma M1A1, TM M14/G43/SVT40, TM VSR/K98, SnS No. 4, ASG Sten, Ppsh.
Arnhem3,Gumrak,Campoleone

 
Posted : 03/06/2015 7:45 am
rifleman6925
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Yes, they weren't supposed to put sleeve eagles on camo smocks & tunics (although some of soldiers did, because it looked cool :) ). Camo rank insignia were even rarer.

Cheers
Martin

So I take it when they wore these types of camo uniforms the were generally totaly unbadged. How did they distinguish a persons rank when wearing camo tunics?

 
Posted : 03/06/2015 9:38 am
Steiner
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Due to their rarity, I guess it wasn't really a common issue. :wink: Obviously, with smocks and pea dots, you could see the Feldgrau tunic collar tabs.


You've got nothing to ein, zwei, drei, vier

 
Posted : 03/06/2015 12:34 pm
rifleman6925
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Due to their rarity, I guess it wasn't really a common issue. :wink: Obviously, with smocks and pea dots, you could see the Feldgrau tunic collar tabs.

Mmmm will have to have a think. I may opt for a normal HBT tunic with camo trousers. No rush to buy just yet.

 
Posted : 03/06/2015 12:42 pm
Steiner
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Indeed - and that would be a much more common combo, especially if you choose pea dot trousers.


You've got nothing to ein, zwei, drei, vier

 
Posted : 03/06/2015 5:32 pm
rifleman6925
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Indeed - and that would be a much more common combo, especially if you choose pea dot trousers.

Agreed mate.

 
Posted : 03/06/2015 5:41 pm
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